Amanda Peet Says Something Sensible

At last, some sensible words about vaccines, courtesy of actress Amanda Peet on yesterday’s Good Morning America:

“It seems that the media is often giving celebrities and actors more authority on this issue than they are giving the experts. I know it’s a paradox, but that’s part of why I wanted to become a spokesperson, to say to people, ‘Please don’t listen to me. Don’t listen to actors. Go to the experts.’”“My main message to parents is that they should not be taking medical advice from me or any other celebrity. They should look to their pediatrician, the AAP and other experts.”

Yes.

Peet clearly identifies herself here as a “spokesperson,” as someone communicating a message—-get your child vaccinated—to the public. She is not, as she clearly acknowledges, a dispenser of “medical advice.” She is a mother, and the mother of a young child, and the mother of a young child at a time when one worry after another travels ’round the internet and the OBGYN’s waiting room: How can you make sure there’s nothing wrong with your yet unborn baby? How can you be 110%-plus sure?

The belief, unsubstantiated by science, that vaccines or something in vaccines can be linked to autism, has led to some 4800 families of autistic children filing claims that a vaccine somehow “damaged” and “injured” their child, with the result that the child became autistic. In many ways, the discussion about vaccines and autism is not so much about autistic children who are here today (and in need of the best schools and services to help them achieve their full potential). Discussions about vaccines and autism are mostly about children, and even children who are yet in utero and have yet to be conceived, who don’t have autism; as proponents of a vaccine-autism link claim, they want to get the thimerosal out and the schedule changed so that no more children will become autistic due to a vaccine. This is one reason why anti-vaccine/pro-vaccine safety advocates seems to be so (at the very least) hesitant and (as often stated) disdainful of evidence for genetic causes of autism. Autism is “preventable” (just say no to those shots, or at least that schedule and green ‘em in the process) and “treatable” (by unproven and potentially dangerous treatments like chelation that stem from also-nproven theories of what causes autism).

And this is precisely why it’s extra-aggravating that vaccines have today come to be so associated with autism. Proponents of a vaccine-autism link can make some very public health-minded-sounding statements about not wanting anymore children to become autistic and not wanting any families to have suffered what they have in raising an autistic child. But much of the rhetoric is about children who are not autistic and who are not even born yet—-no wonder Dr. Paul Offit refers to such anti-vaccine/pro-vaccine-safety advocates as “Autism’s False Prophets,” sending out dire predictions of what will happen if children keep getting vaccinated.

Autism’s False Prophets, Dr. Offit’s new book, is to be published September 5th and various websites (including one under Dr. Offit’s own name, and not his own) have been rife with accusations of his “conflicts of interests” and “ties to Big Pharma”; have generally impugned his character; and have utitlized tactics meant to intimidate and deliver a one-two punch in the gut. I expect the invective will only rise through the month of August and slam down like a tsunami just as September stars. Any surprise that Jenny McCarthy has been linked up with WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment) to “smackdown” autism?

Dr. Offit’s title also hints at the apocalyptic language the proponents of a vaccine-autism link often use: Gotta stop giving all those shots or face a (use to the word again) tsunami, an epidemic, a trainwreck of autism—-keep giving all those vaccines and it’ll be over for tomorrow’s children. It won’t be the first time that we’ve heard of “prophets” who had plenty to say about autism and its causes. From the March 14th Washington Post (via High Beam Research):

A man whose pungent opinions on child-rearing were likened to the preachments of a biblical prophet, Bettelheim was the author of highly influential books and articles-popular and scholarly……….

And I think we know how wrong that “prophet” was.

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    • http://autismfamiily.blogspot.com Bonnie Sayers

      That summary you posted from Amanda Peet was very well stated. I agree and hate those terms listed at the end of this post like tsunami, etc. Parents saying their children were snatched from them is so melodramatic. I do not like when referred to as “those children”

      On another note a post you recently did mentioned Susan Senator’s son is in a group home and I went to her site to read about that since I had not been there in awhile and read her article that was in Washington Post and it did not seem to be, she wrote he is in a year round school. IS he going somewhere soon or was he and now he is back?

    • http://www.autismvox.com Kristina Chew, PhD

      @Bonnie, As I understand it, Senator’s son is now in a group home in the Boston area. I think he went home for a weekend visit. I’ve had what that whole transition might be like for Charlie on my mind……..

    • http://leechbabe.wordpress.com Marita

      Thank god for sane celebrities like Amanda Peet. I hope the message can get through.

      Hubby and I used to be big WWE fans but the day we saw generation rescue on there was the day we stopped watching – http://leechbabe.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/wwe-boycott/

      In a way it has been good because hubby has been inspired to learn more about autism and the treatments. He always loved to be spending time with his girls but in the past left the research up to me.

    • http://EBDBlog.com/ John Lloyd

      Kristina, this is a good post. As I don’t watch TV, I missed Ms. Peet’s sentient recommendations.

      On a related note: Over on 29 Marbles, Bret has a post about a debate about the relationship between Autism and vaccinations. The URL is long, so it’s going to wrap, but here ‘tiz:

      http://autism.gbrettmiller.com/2008/07/opposingviewscom-are-autism-and-vaccines-linked/

    • http://storkdok-nos.blogspot.com/ Storkdok

      I’ve already pre-ordered “Autism’s False Prophets” from Amazon. I’m looking forward to reading it.

      Very nice that Amanda points people to the right place to get unbiased and scientifically correct information.

    • passionlessDrone

      Hi Maurita –

      Thank god for sane celebrities like Amanda Peet. I hope the message can get through.

      In a way it has been good because hubby has been inspired to learn more about autism and the treatments. He always loved to be spending time with his girls but in the past left the research up to me.

      Hehe. In one sense, Ms. McCarthy has accomplished her goal. One more parent has decided to do some research on autism and treatments.

      I find Ms. McCarthy’s singleminded focus on vaccine causation a bit simplistic; but she has been successful at raising awareness of the medical conditions frequently associated with autism. This is a good thing, in my opinion.

      Good luck!

      - pD

    • Laura

      I appreciated Ms. Peet’s statement about not being an expert and only being a spokesperson and how we should go to the experts and ask our questions and listen. Now if only my child’s personal “experts” (her pediatricians, etc) would actually answer my questions instead of exiting me from their practice at the mere mention of concern over vaccines, I could actually get a good grasp on why vaccines seem to really hurt my daughter and why I shouldn’t be worried about each one and their effect on her.

      I’m not listening to Jenny McCarthy, but to be honest, Amanda Peet’s pleading to listen to my child’s doctors fell a little flat for me as well. While the doctors may be the experts in medicine, most of them have no idea what autism truly is, how it affects my daughter and how to help us in any way. I have been insulted and blamed by more doctors and professionals than I can recall at the moment because they don’t see in ten minutes what we see in our daughter every moment of the day. My husband and I are the experts when it comes to our child and her behavior. But no one is listening to us either.

      A lot of “not listening” is going around in all camps. I’m really trying to listen to the experts but NO ONE will answer my questions about vaccine safety. I’m immediately condemned as “one of those moms” and dismissed. It’s hard to listen when no one is actually saying anything but cliches and often repeated phrases like “the benefit outweighs the risk”. Tell that to my child that has been hospitalized twice and in the ER seven times in her first 12 months after so many of her vaccines.

      And there was something weird about Amanda Peet being pitted against Jenny McCarthy as if she was the classy, intelligent. calm parent (with a perfectly healthy and typically developing child) with values and all that as compared to the loud, sometimes vulgar and even annoying antics of Ms. McCarthy. I’ve heard McCarthy many times be discounted simply because of her personality and career choices. If that’s how we’re making judgments, I’ve seen Ms. Peets’ upper half undressed in EVERY single movie I’ve ever seen her in. The girl can’t stay dressed to act. I really like her as an actress, but seriously. She can’t stay dressed. So should I discount her “wise advice” based on her career choices? Not likely. I’ll do what all parents do and try to LISTEN to what sounds true, honest and right for my child. Not which celebrity is the spokesperson of the day.

    • RAJ

      “I find Ms. McCarthy’s singleminded focus on vaccine causation a bit simplistic; but she has been successful at raising awareness of the medical conditions frequently associated with autism. This is a good thing, in my opinion”.

      Jenny McCarthy has done more to raise Autism Awareness than all the entire neurodiversity crowd combined. McCarthy’s vaccine diatribes are probably quite wrong, there is no eveidence to support her diatribes, but there is no evidence from the neurodiversity crowd that autism is not a profoundly handicapping condition that for most require lifelong support.

      By raising autism awareness and the impression of a global autism pandemic politicians will and have already providedd an explosion in money, not only for research, but in providing improved special eduaction services and passing laws requiring ‘autism’ to be covered in insurance policies. This is already happening on state and local levels. Good for Jenny McCarthy, she has done more for autism than all her haters with their demands for their children being given ‘special rights’.

    • MAría Luján

      Hi
      RAJ and Laura presented several important points. As the mom of an autistic child whose former peditrician and neurologist- the best of the city- failed awfully to provide the needed care he requested- because of undetected medical conditions due to atypical presentation that predispose him to adverse reactions to vaccines -I agree completely with the words of Laura. I consider Mrs Amanda Peet is a mom with faith in the health system and with no reasons to doubt about the dogma actually accepted as consensus. I consider that Mrs Mc Carthy is a mom whose personal experience and position gave her enough reasons to challenge the dogma. Every family with a child with autism is a voice, a differnet voice. With my experience, and even if I have a different position than both in particular in style or others, I agree with RAJ in terms of the awareness for autism.

    • passionlessDrone

      Hi Laura –

      Very nicely stated.

      While the doctors may be the experts in medicine, most of them have no idea what autism truly is, how it affects my daughter and how to help us in any way.

      This is absolutely the cornerstone of why Ms. McCarthy is so ‘successful’; when the experts don’t know anything, everyone is an expert. Ms. McCarthy’s ability to be a public figure in the autism world will disipate the day the medical community begins to address our childrens medical issues in a meaningful fashion.

      What seems to evading the people organizing press conferences like those of Ms. Peete is that stories like Ms. McCarthy’s resonate with so many people because they personally know someone with a very similar story. Competing press conferences are unlikely to be a strong counterpoint to personal connections.

      I’ve heard McCarthy many times be discounted simply because of her personality and career choices. If that’s how we’re making judgments, I’ve seen Ms. Peets’ upper half undressed in EVERY single movie I’ve ever seen her in. The girl can’t stay dressed to act. I really like her as an actress, but seriously. She can’t stay dressed

      So true. Ms. McCarthy has been hounded, abosutely hounded for her previous choices in some circles. In fact, I’d bet that somewhere on this blog there is a link to an advertisement she did while sitting on the toilet. For some curious reason, this particular messenger hasn’t seem to have gotten the same response.

      Good luck with your daughter, Laura. I would advise you investigate biomedical treatments with an MD that has chosen to work with children with autism.

      - pD

    • peony

      Credits for the passing laws should be given to parents, individuals with autism, and major autism organizations who have worked together to have autism covered by insurance companies and not to Jenny McCarthy. Just my 2 cents…

    • Another Voice

      Peony – I agree.

    • http://ppdnos.blogspot.com/ Another Laura

      On one hand, I understand the discontent with mainstream doctors. We get ushered in and ushered out quickly, and we’re not to feel like our children’s care is priority. pD indicates that this is in part why Jenny McCarthy is popular. But arguably the ushering process is a byproduct of the insurance system, not the pediatric association. Taking pD’s observation a step further, I think this is why DANs are popular. It’s very simple: they take more time and turn over every stone (even if the turning over of the stone is not medically indicated).

      On the other hand, what I want from my doctor is sound medicine, not good customer service. And that’s why I haven’t sought out a DAN. But I understand the discontent – who doesn’t relate to feeling like a number, not a patient? What it comes down to for us is that I’d rather my son be a number than a guinea pig.

    • María Luján

      Hi Another Laura
      The dicotomy presented ussually is or you accept the mainstreamed medicine with the schedule “as it is” and all the rigid positions related- at least in my experience- or you go to the most controversial doctors- represented by many in some extreme versions of the DAN!. However, such as in many aspects, you can have both situations without being your child a guinea pig- a comment that I consider unfair done in general – and considering mainstreamed and serious science with doctors concerned on your son´s health- mainstreamed or not. Living in a country where Dan is the short name for Daniel only, I can tell you that it is possible to apply sound medicine but looking for the concomitant medical problems that DAN! group has presented as important in many children with ASD with mainstreamed doctors prone to look at your child as unique- almost an impossible mission. How to test, how to analyze and what to do next is a world of difference- and responsability.

    • brstpathdoc

      ///I’m really trying to listen to the experts but NO ONE will answer my questions about vaccine safety.///

      Here’s a go at it.
      ====
      Adverse Reactions

      Most adverse reactions to vaccines can be classified into 3 groups:

      1. Vaccine-induced (eg, pain at the injection site, allergic reactions);

      2. Programmatic error (eg, administering an intramuscular vaccine by the subcutaneous route); or

      3. Coincidental (having a temporal association with the vaccine but would have occurred even in the absence of vaccination).

      The nation’s voluntary reporting system for adverse events following vaccine administration confirms that vaccine side effects are surprisingly uncommon. Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) data reveal that 11.4 adverse events occur per 100,000 vaccine doses distributed. Adverse events often depend upon the nature of the vaccine itself. The events and the frequency of events are similar to those that occur with placebo injections in controlled trials and include pain, swelling, and redness at the injection site. Reactions to live viral and bacterial vaccines can mimic attenuated forms of the target disease. Fever and irritability are systemic reactions sometimes reported after giving immunizations to infants.

      Serious Adverse Events

      A serious adverse event is one involving death, hospitalization or prolongation of hospitalization, or permanent disability or life-threatening illness. The occurrence of serious injury or disease following vaccine administration is extremely rare but has been reported. The DTaP vaccine is an example that “lets the numbers do the talking.” If a child gets diphtheria, the risk of death is 1 in 20; for tetanus, it is 1 in 5. Pertussis leads to pneumonia in 1 of 8 individuals, to encephalitis in 1 of 20, and death in 1 of 1500. These figures must be contrasted to the risks of adverse outcomes of the DTaP vaccine. Only 1 in 14,000 may experience seizures or shock with full recovery, perhaps 10 in 1,000,000 suffer acute encephalopathy, and none have been known to die as a result of the DTaP vaccine. Clearly, children are far more likely to be injured as a result of contracting one of these diseases than from the vaccine given to protect them.

      The MMR-autism theory is the most recent example, but hypotheses linking vaccines to an array of serious or permanent injuries among recipients are not new. In fact, malpractice litigation aimed at vaccine manufacturers and administrators grew so much that in the early 1980s, such lawsuits threatened to cripple and potentially destroy the US vaccination program. Vaccine prices were rising, vaccine shortages were common, and many manufacturers simply stopped making vaccines altogether.
      ====
      Now, I have to admit that I’m a doctor, so apparently my credibility is suspect. However, I’ll tell you that every word above was written by a nurse (Laura A. Stokowski, RNC, MS), paraphrased from a nice article she wrote a while back for Medscape. Maybe that will make it more believable.

    • ASDmomNC

      While I don’t agree at all with the vaccines-cause-autism hysteria, I also don’t have blind faith in the medical community to tell me how to raise my children. We are delay/selective vaccinating my second child, something I just didn’t have the stones to insist upon with my first, even though my gut told me that was what to do.

      Ms. Peet is correct in that parents need to ignore all the hype and medical “advice” dispensed by celebrities, one and all, and instead focus on our own instincts and our own research. We shouldn’t be mindless followers of anyone’s advice.

    • Leila

      Have you noticed that the biomed fanatics are already writing nasty comments on the Amazon page for Dr. Offit’s new book (without having even read it yet of course).

    • ASDmomNC

      Yep, caught that right away, Leila. Sigh. I expect there to be mass book burnings and demands for the author’s head on a stick soon.

    • http://qw88nb88.wordpress.com andrea

      I disagree that all “public awareness” efforts are equally helpful.

      When “awareness” = “Terrible Tragedy and Selfless Suffering Families”, then no one is really helped. Certainly with these catastrophic views, there is stigmatisation, and there is no progress on accepting and welcoming different people into our greater communities.

      andrea

    • Another Voice

      The ushering in and out of doctors offices is a by-product of the quest for money. Not if it is paid by insurance or directly out of my pocket.

    • MAría Luján

      Hi brstpathdoc
      Unfortunately this kind of advice was totally useless in my son´s case.There are a lot of published reports related to clinical impact of vaccination that is unnoticed and unknown for the average peditrician in practice. Why it seems that only the minor adverse effects or the terrible ones are the situations to consider as average? What about nutritional metabolic and biochemical status at the time of vaccination? what about changes in time induced by them- especially in combination with the common infections of the childhood and their treatments? and with the changes in the feeding that many times take place?There are a lot of information of importance of changes in time and specially considering the full schedule of vaccines. I have no right to question your credibility- being a doctor or not- such as I have never given more than the opinion of an informed mom- NOT being a doctor but with scientific background. However there are a lot of doctors without the view of every patient as unique an without the needed consideration of parents opinions and concerns- that later became to be completely right at least in our case. Therefore things are really complicated. Even when I understand that your intention is right, unfortunately the information you posted is completely incomplete.
      What I can tell you is that I think that serious committed and concerned doctors – interested on science-are the most needed in this situation. There is an ongoing problem of the people in the profession -in my experience- not the profession itself when related to concomitant medical problems (CMP) in ASD. The medical profession is beyond criticism in its importance but how it is applied by human beings is the point; how unknown aspects are approached and how autistic children are viewed after their diagnosis as such and how adverse reactions to vaccinesm ( full schedule and full composition) is known in terms of prevention, testing detection and treatment when they take place.
      For example
      Vaccine. 2007 Jan 4;25(2):391-8.
      Modulation of the infant immune responses by the first pertussis vaccine administrations.
      Mascart F, Hainaut M, Peltier A, Verscheure V, Levy J, Locht C.

      Many efforts are currently made to prepare combined vaccines against most infectious pathogens, that may be administered early in life to protect infants against infectious diseases as early as possible. However, little is known about the general immune modulation induced by early vaccination. Here, we have analyzed the cytokine secretion profiles of two groups of 6-month-old infants having received as primary immunization either a whole-cell (Pw) or an acellular (Pa) pertussis vaccine in a tetravalent formulation of pertussis-tetanus-diphtheria-poliomyelitis vaccines. Both groups of infants secreted IFN-gamma in response to the Bordetella pertussis antigens filamentous haemagglutinin and pertussis toxin, and this response was correlated with antigen-specific IL-12p70 secretion, indicating that both pertussis vaccines induced Th1 cytokines. However, Pa recipients also developed a strong Th2-type cytokine response to the B. pertussis antigens, as noted previously. In addition, they induced Th2-type cytokines to the co-administrated antigen tetanus toxoïd, as well as to the food antigen beta-lactoglobulin. Furthermore, the general cytokine profile of the Pa recipients was strongly Th2-skewed at 6 months, as indicated by the cytokines induced by the mitogen phytohaemagglutinin. These data demonstrate that the cytokine profile of 6-month-old infants is influenced by the type of formulation of the pertussis vaccine they received at 2, 3 and 4 months of life. Large prospective studies would be warranted to evaluate the possible long-term consequences of this early modulation of the cytokine responses in infants.
      Vaccine. 2008 Jul 4;26(29-30):3551-5
      Sexual dimorphism of humoral immunity with human vaccines.
      Cook IF.
      University of Newcastle, Discipline of General Practice, School of Medical Practice and Population Health University Drive Callaghan, NSW 2308, Australia.
      It has been contended that limited data exist on sex-difference in immune response with vaccines in humans. However, a comprehensive search of the literature retrieved 97 studies with 14 vaccines influenza (7 studies), hepatitis A (15 studies), hepatitis B (50 studies), pnuemococcal polysaccaride (4 studies), diphtheria (4 studies), rubella (3 studies), measles (2 studies), yellow fever (3 studies), meningococcal A (1 study), meningococcal C (1 study), tetanus (1 study), brucella (1 study), Venezuelan equine encephalitis (1 study) and rabies (4 studies), with sex-difference in humoral (antibody) response. These differences are associated with sex-difference in the clinical efficacy of influenza, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, pneumococcal polysaccharide and diphtheria vaccines and significant adverse reactions with rubella, measles and yellow fever vaccines. The genesis of these differences is uncertain but not entirely related to gonadal hormones (differences are seen in pre-pubertal and post-menopausal subjects not on hormone replacement therapy) or female sex (males had greater serological response for pneumococcal, diphtheria, yellow fever, Venezuelan equine encephalitis and in some studies with rabies vaccine. As sex-difference in humoral immune response was seen with most vaccines which cover the spectrum of mechanisms by which infectious agents cause disease (mucosal replication, viral viraemia, bacterial bacteraemia, toxin production and neuronal invasion), it is mandatory that vaccine trialists recruit a representative sample of females and males to be able to assess sex-differences which may have clinical implications.

      Methods Mol Biol. 2008;448:469-79.
      Pharmacogenomics in the evaluation of efficacy and adverse events during clinical development of vaccines.
      Nilsson LJ, Regnström KJ.
      Division of Paediatrics, Faculty of Health Sciences, Linköping University, Sweden.
      The understanding of vaccine-induced immune responses in adults and infants is limited. Current vaccination schedules for infants are frequently debated. Especially, the relationship among the timing, the frequency of the dosing, and the generation of an immunological memory are debated. Vaccine antigen-induced cytokine responses to vaccinations given in infancy are of particular interest because little is known about cellular responses in this age, and the information available is based on antibody responses. Pharmacogenomics is ideally suited to study cellular responses related to immune response; in addition, toxicity, inflammation, apoptosis, stress, and oncogenesis can be monitored, since the expression of thousands of genes can be measured in a single experiment.

    • Leila

      RAJ said: “Jenny McCarthy has done more to raise Autism Awareness than all the entire neurodiversity crowd combined. McCarthy’s vaccine diatribes are probably quite wrong, there is no eveidence to support her diatribes, but there is no evidence from the neurodiversity crowd that autism is not a profoundly handicapping condition that for most require lifelong support.”

      No, RAJ. Jenny McCarthy’s message is that autism -rather than a lifelong condition- can be cured by diets and antifungal medication, and completely avoided if you don’t vaccinate. There’s nothing more misleading, wrong and damaging than that. The Autism Hub’s stance is that autism is a lifelong condition that can be improved depending on science-based, non-harmful therapies, and depending on the individual (not all autistic persons develop the same way). The Autism Hub bloggers many times talk about the necessity of funding services fot autistic adults, rather than funding research on fake causation theories.

    • Chuck

      brstpathdoc,

      How many years do they track Adverse Reactions?

      Someone in my household continues to have medical (and resulting non-compensated financial) problems decades after the initial vaccination.

      It would be a very interesting study to see how long these Adverse Reactions last and when the CDC stops reporting them. I am sure Adverse Reactions are underreported.

    • MAría Luján

      Hi Leila
      You said
      Jenny McCarthy’s message is that autism -rather than a lifelong condition- can be cured by diets and antifungal medication, and completely avoided if you don’t vaccinate. There’s nothing more misleading, wrong and damaging than that.

      You have this interpretation- that it is extremist IMO. To vaccinate in any situation and without care was extremely misleading wrong and damaging to my son. To avoid the need of careful search , testing and diagnosis of his CMPs the same. To have uneducated doctor about what to test and how to interpret the tests ( mainstreamed or not) the same. Therefore the message of Ms Mc Carthy may be understood different by different people-such as with the ND message such as others- and depending on individual experience and considerations- and I have researched a lot the peer reviewed serious scientific literature on my son´s conditions- what is misleading , wrong and damaging may be also very different.

    • http://www.liquidzeoliteplus.com liquid zeolite

      I have another take on this..

      “Don’t listen to anyone who has a conflict of interest in this matter!” Does the doctor have a conflict of interest? Yes. Vaccines can lead to death or serious injury and most certainly harms the child’s immune system. If the kid had poor digestion and can’t eliminate the toxins, whooo nellie, we’re talking serious brain damage here!

      Having said that, if the parent is comfortable with the risk and willing to play Russian Roulette with their kids health, so be it. They’re the ones who will have to live with the consequences if something goes wrong. If they don’t vaccinate and something goes wrong, same thing. This issue boils down to one and only one thing, the risk vs the reward. Study each vaccine individually, find out if immunity is guaranteed (most only give a small chance of immunity against the disease). Find out how likely or unlikely the child is of getting said disease (in some cases, like polio, only likely to get it if they get the vaccine, no cases of wild polio in how many years now?) Find out what can go wrong if they get the vaccine (death, brain damage, etc vs a rash or illness that is highly treatable in all but third world countries) I could go on and on beating this big pharma horse but it’s begging me not to beat it anymore. Don’t want to cause too much consternation with those who own a lot of drug company stock. LOL.

    • Regan

      “politicians will and have already providedd an explosion in money, not only for research, but in providing improved special eduaction services and passing laws requiring ‘autism’ to be covered in insurance policies.”

      In many, if not most, cases due to political groundwork and action by parents, legislative white knights and action groups well before J. Mc first made her appearance on Oprah. So play the awareness card if you like, but give the credit where credit is properly due.

    • Leila

      Hi Maria,

      My main point was that RAJ was contradictory when he said McCarthy’s message created awareness for autism as being a lifelong condition, when in fact she’s saying that it can be cured basically by GFCF, antifungals and other DAN methods. That’s the gist of her book.

      I’m not opposed to research to find out if a subgroup of autistic people were affected by vaccines. In my humble opinion the trigger was the fever itself and that could have happened if the child developed a fever from a virus present in the environment. Also from the anecdotes I see, it’s hard to tell if the child got the fever as a reaction from the vaccine or from the environment, if they’re getting sick several days or even weeks after the shots. Babies and toddlers get sick a lot. But in any case I’m open to the possibility that the vaccines might have triggered the fevers and therefore the regression in that subgroup. Still, the genetic predisposition is the main factor, otherwise the majority of the population would be autistic.

    • passionlessDrone

      Hi Maria –

      Great stuff, albeit a bit terrifying.

      Furthermore, the general cytokine profile of the Pa recipients was strongly Th2-skewed at 6 months, as indicated by the cytokines induced by the mitogen phytohaemagglutinin. These data demonstrate that the cytokine profile of 6-month-old infants is influenced by the type of formulation of the pertussis vaccine they received at 2, 3 and 4 months of life. Large prospective studies would be warranted to evaluate the possible long-term consequences of this early modulation of the cytokine responses in infants.

      While reducing the number of children stricken with pertussis is a laudable goal; the notion that anyone has a clue in the world as to the long term impact of initiating shifts in cytokine levels like this is a joke. If such a shift in cytokines were to result in ‘long term consequences’, does anyone really expect it to be represented in the adverse reaction database listing side effects at 1 in 10,000 doses?

      What we do know is that auto immune disoders such as asthma involve an increase in TH2 cytokines, there has been a staggering and undeniable increase in childhood asthma, and a recent analysis of 10K+ children reveals that getting DTAP at two months increases your risk of asthma compared to children vaccinated at four, or six months. On the flip side, we have studies well designed to detect nearly immediate side effects that are either minor, or exceedingly extreme. [A TH2 shift in cytokines has also been identified in autism.]

      brstpathdoc – It isn’t that the information you provided isn’t well intentioned, nor that it isn’t useful. I’m sure that in terms of immediate reactions it is of value; but for many of us it just doesn’t do a good job of answering the question over conditions that may take longer than three weeks to develop. Perhaps I am over reacting, or underinformed; can you provide your opinion on the possible long term consequences of initiating cytokine shifts as a result of DTAP administration?

      - pD

    • http://autism.gbrettmiller.com Brett

      Kristina, many of the same ideas have been rattling around my (too full at the moment) brain, and I’ve been trying to figure out how to get them down on the “page”. You’ve done a much better job here in this post than I could have.

      Thanks.

    • MAría Luján

      Hi Leila
      You said
      I’m not opposed to research to find out if a subgroup of autistic people were affected by vaccines. In my humble opinion the trigger was the fever itself and that could have happened if the child developed a fever from a virus present in the environment. Also from the anecdotes I see, it’s hard to tell if the child got the fever as a reaction from the vaccine or from the environment, if they’re getting sick several days or even weeks after the shots. Babies and toddlers get sick a lot. But in any case I’m open to the possibility that the vaccines might have triggered the fevers and therefore the regression in that subgroup. Still, the genetic predisposition is the main factor, otherwise the majority of the population would be autistic.

      I disagree in my són´s case based on the clinical evidence we have from him , in the tone of your conclussions. My son was a severe undetected atypical InmuneglobulinA defficient- tested after full schedule of vaccines in salva and blood- and other many things. Fever was never a problem with the vaccines he received but his nutritional metabolic immune and gastrointestinal status at the time of the vaccination was the problem- between many others. He demonstrated problems after the boosters at 18 months but our concerns were never heard and unfortunately we trusted those who should know better and didn´t.You are talking of a subgroup of undetected mitochondrial disorders – but I am concerned about mitochondrial dysfunctions, immune defficiencies- even transitory, homeostasis imbalances and subtle changes that in accumulation produces in time a lot of problems and avoid a susceptible child- even genetically or environmentally or in combination -to be susceptible to adverse reactions to vaccines- but not only. Therefore it is not so simple IMO and no general conclussions may be obtained, even when enough clinical research gave many clues to the adverse reactions to vaccines.
      I consider that it is part of the problem how the research is NOT done with questions related to autistic metabolism of xenobiotics in general- being vaccines part of them.- This way the needed answers about why so many autistics have adverse and sometimes very adverse reactions to medications they need for CMPs such as epilepsy or others. could be obtained and be useful to improve life quality. But in the pro/anti discussion there is no place to this possibility. I hope to live enough to see more research -serious and high quality- on all these topics- with the needed respect and consideration of the autistic of all ages and the different needs of different subgroups of them- childre such as my son- and the teen and adult he will be.

    • http://www.autismvox.com Kristina Chew, PhD

      Getting back to Peet’s statement about leaving the medical advice to the medical professionals—-how much of the “Amanda vs. Jenny” show is not of their making, but of (the too easy to blame) media?

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    • brstpathdoc

      @MAria and pD: the common theme in the (numerous) studies cited above is the lack of a statistically proven clinical implication to the entities cited. The key word there is proven, as opposed to “may have, could have, might”, etc. Maybe in the future some rigorously controlled, properly conceived prospective / case control studies will show some sort of clinical implications to shifts in inflammatory mediators in the contexts cited. Until then, any alterations as noted above are of unproven clinical significance. This is in contrast to “speculative”. For instance, attributing a described rise in childhood asthma as being secondary to cytokine shifts caused by DPT is purely speculative. I can’t say this isn’t the case, but I am unfamiliar with a study where this is controlled for against other confounding variables (say, something obvious like decreasing air quality over the years). Maybe one exists. I don’t know. As to indolent and long term sequelae which fly below or above the radar of the parameters for reporting adverse reactions, the data are lacking, to my knowledge. I’m open to citation of good studies on this matter, but ones such as those noted above leave me unmoved…..

      @Chuck: I don’t know the answer to your question. The CDC website might say, but I don’t know.

      @liquid zeolite: is the crap you’re peddling on that website not for profit? Begone, foul troll and woo-monger.

    • MAría Luján

      Hi brstpathdoc
      What kind of information do you want to analyze and on what vaccines ? Flu, MMR, multiple, other? From Cochrane reviews, experts opinions or metaanalysis-other?

      lack of a statistically proven clinical implication to the entities cited

      But how are confounders considered in the safety trials of vaccines-in terms of not weeks or 1 months but in at least 1 year- with clinical information included?I am talking about clinical studies , you are talking about statistics? Please clarify because I (possibly) misunderstood you

      Please be also more specific because there is very specific literature to mention on the topics I presented, but I did not know about your potential (or not) interest on the topic

    • http://www.latetalking.org Susan

      I personally would not conclude that vaccines cause autism , but…… for clarification I certainly would not conclude there is no connection.
      I would be happy to listen to the experts , as they say, but only if honesty were a consistancy.
      I have experienced, and heard more stories of parents trying to get single shot vaccines for their child , instead of the multi vaccine in one shot.
      More times parents have been lied to saying the single vaccines don’t exist.
      They DO exist, some places simply don’t want to take the time to order them or the expense.
      A little bit of simple give and take in honesty and complying with parent’s needs , would prevent a ton of suspicion.
      I remember when there was no admittance to the first pertussis vaccines causing serious reactions. This has resulted in no trust .
      There are tons of stories such as these , that “listening to the experts” for good reason false on deaf ears.

    • http://www.autismvox.com Kristina Chew, PhD

      @Brett, I await your post and do think there’s a reason that so much emotion and so many words get devoted to this topic.

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