Comments on: A Pill for the Placebo Effect http://www.blisstree.com/articles/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/ Family, Health, Home and Lifestyles Sat, 05 Dec 2009 03:03:36 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Sheri http://www.blisstree.com/articles/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-557799 Sheri Fri, 30 May 2008 04:47:59 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/#comment-557799 Antibiotics are not as over prescribed as the under usage of laboratory testing that needs to be done. Strep can cause organ damage if the doctor refuses to treat. Your heart, kidneys and other problems. A culture could be done to provide accurate information as to what the body is actually doing.....This is not done more times than an antibiotic is ordered...... Antibiotics are not as over prescribed as the under usage of laboratory testing that needs to be done. Strep can cause organ damage if the doctor refuses to treat. Your heart, kidneys and other problems. A culture could be done to provide accurate information as to what the body is actually doing…..This is not done more times than an antibiotic is ordered……

]]> By: Sheri http://www.blisstree.com/articles/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-557796 Sheri Fri, 30 May 2008 04:42:33 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/#comment-557796 Before you decide to placebo anyone you better make sure there isn't a true underlining problem such as allergies or constipation. You showing a child to "take something" when it really isn't warranted could lead to dependency mind set later in life, this is regardless of needed or not....... Before you decide to placebo anyone you better make sure there isn’t a true underlining problem such as allergies or constipation. You showing a child to “take something” when it really isn’t warranted could lead to dependency mind set later in life, this is regardless of needed or not…….

]]> By: How About A Little Miracle Fruit on the Side? http://www.blisstree.com/articles/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-551270 How About A Little Miracle Fruit on the Side? Thu, 29 May 2008 16:26:38 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/#comment-551270 [...] Imagine the possibilities for the parent of the pronounced neophobe, or of a mother trying to sweeten up the cod liver oil……. Tags: asd, asperger, autism, autism blog cod liver oil, diet, food, food blog, [...] [...] Imagine the possibilities for the parent of the pronounced neophobe, or of a mother trying to sweeten up the cod liver oil……. Tags: asd, asperger, autism, autism blog cod liver oil, diet, food, food blog, [...]

]]> By: daedalus2u http://www.blisstree.com/articles/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-551249 daedalus2u Thu, 29 May 2008 14:25:40 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/#comment-551249 I have a blog which explains the physiology behind the placebo effect. I have tried to post it but the spam filters won't allow it. That blog is in April 2007 I have a blog which explains the physiology behind the placebo effect. I have tried to post it but the spam filters won’t allow it.

That blog is in April 2007

]]> By: Storkdok http://www.blisstree.com/articles/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-546428 Storkdok Thu, 29 May 2008 09:40:38 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/#comment-546428 We use some supplements because my son is such a picky eater, he just doesn't get all the nutrients he needs as well as having inflammatory bowel disease. They have been given under the supervision of Dr. Timothy Buie for years. In the beginning of our journey, we tried DMG, didn't do anything. We didn't do the GFCF diet, waited to get a diagnosis from Dr. Buie, found out my son wouldn't respond to the diet based on his biopsies. He had us try cod liver oil, but I couldn't even get one dose in, so he had us switch to another form of the Omegas. Haven't succeeded in getting Alex to take pills yet. We have to put everything in applesauce. @Ms. Clark, I agree and very well said. I also worry about making kids grow up to think that there is a pill for everything. Why not just educate them a cold virus cannot be treated with a pill? I think education is the key, because antibiotics are overprescribed. The physicians should not be giving in to the pressure. We already have super resistant strains of bacteria, we need to develop more antibiotics, but if they are not used judiciously, the bacteria will just become resistant to the new ones. This isn't new, I did a rotation in Infectious Diseases in medical school, we saw MRSA and even VRSA back then, it is just now hitting the media. We use some supplements because my son is such a picky eater, he just doesn’t get all the nutrients he needs as well as having inflammatory bowel disease. They have been given under the supervision of Dr. Timothy Buie for years.

In the beginning of our journey, we tried DMG, didn’t do anything. We didn’t do the GFCF diet, waited to get a diagnosis from Dr. Buie, found out my son wouldn’t respond to the diet based on his biopsies. He had us try cod liver oil, but I couldn’t even get one dose in, so he had us switch to another form of the Omegas.

Haven’t succeeded in getting Alex to take pills yet. We have to put everything in applesauce.

@Ms. Clark, I agree and very well said.

I also worry about making kids grow up to think that there is a pill for everything. Why not just educate them a cold virus cannot be treated with a pill? I think education is the key, because antibiotics are overprescribed. The physicians should not be giving in to the pressure. We already have super resistant strains of bacteria, we need to develop more antibiotics, but if they are not used judiciously, the bacteria will just become resistant to the new ones. This isn’t new, I did a rotation in Infectious Diseases in medical school, we saw MRSA and even VRSA back then, it is just now hitting the media.

]]> By: Kristina Chew, PhD http://www.blisstree.com/articles/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-554796 Kristina Chew, PhD Thu, 29 May 2008 02:40:39 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/#comment-554796 We taught Charlie to take pills precisely to give him those supplements-----using the actual pills! (I've heard of people using m & m's to practice.) So in an odd twist, when we put him on meds, it was a simple process to give him and the pills are far smaller than the supplements like the magnesium (which was a short-lived experiment---didn't seem to help at all). @goodfountain, We just had to give up on cough syrups and other liquid medicines----Charlie never took them from a spoon and what a gooey mess resulted. I once spilled a half bottle of amoxycillin on the carpet while attempting to get him to take it...... We taught Charlie to take pills precisely to give him those supplements—–using the actual pills! (I’ve heard of people using m & m’s to practice.) So in an odd twist, when we put him on meds, it was a simple process to give him and the pills are far smaller than the supplements like the magnesium (which was a short-lived experiment—didn’t seem to help at all).

@goodfountain,
We just had to give up on cough syrups and other liquid medicines—-Charlie never took them from a spoon and what a gooey mess resulted. I once spilled a half bottle of amoxycillin on the carpet while attempting to get him to take it……

]]> By: Marla http://www.blisstree.com/articles/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-546534 Marla Thu, 29 May 2008 02:01:46 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/#comment-546534 I too think time has been the biggest factor in M gaining language. I tried most of your list as well early on and then stopped. We do however used medication for aggression, anxiety and sleep and have seen great success in those areas. I too think time has been the biggest factor in M gaining language. I tried most of your list as well early on and then stopped. We do however used medication for aggression, anxiety and sleep and have seen great success in those areas.

]]> By: goodfountain http://www.blisstree.com/articles/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-548574 goodfountain Thu, 29 May 2008 01:55:54 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/#comment-548574 A different way a placebo pill might come in handy is to help a pill/medication adverse child overcome the fear of taking pills. My daughter has only been sick a couple of times in her almost 4 years and it has been pretty much impossible to get an antibiotic in her (times she truly needed one). I've often said I wish that I could come up with a way to help her overcome this fear or aversion or whatever to medicine - before she needs to actually be on it again. I think a placebo liquid would be great. I could do it myself, maybe, but I want something that has the consistency of real medicine. Happily, we did convince her to start taking her daily Zyrtec which has helped a lot. Now if we could only get all medicines to come in a delicious grape tasting chewable. A different way a placebo pill might come in handy is to help a pill/medication adverse child overcome the fear of taking pills. My daughter has only been sick a couple of times in her almost 4 years and it has been pretty much impossible to get an antibiotic in her (times she truly needed one). I’ve often said I wish that I could come up with a way to help her overcome this fear or aversion or whatever to medicine – before she needs to actually be on it again. I think a placebo liquid would be great. I could do it myself, maybe, but I want something that has the consistency of real medicine.

Happily, we did convince her to start taking her daily Zyrtec which has helped a lot. Now if we could only get all medicines to come in a delicious grape tasting chewable.

]]> By: Chuck http://www.blisstree.com/articles/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-550499 Chuck Thu, 29 May 2008 00:45:36 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/#comment-550499 "The parents have a profound effect on the child, even when they have convinced themselves that they are being all scientific like and neutral. They are not." That may be your opinion, it has not been our observation over the years. “The parents have a profound effect on the child, even when they have convinced themselves that they are being all scientific like and neutral. They are not.”

That may be your opinion, it has not been our observation over the years.

]]> By: Ms. Clark http://www.blisstree.com/articles/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-557657 Ms. Clark Thu, 29 May 2008 00:35:36 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/a-pill-for-the-placebo-effect/#comment-557657 The placebo effect in autistic kids is not just about not showing the autistic kids which pills they are getting. When a double blind study is done on autistic kids (or babies) they blind the parents to the condition. It doesn't matter so much if the child or the school doesn't know what pill the kid is taking or what is in the bread. What matters most is if the parents or the doctor knows. The parents absolutely will look at the child differently, have different expectations about how the child will act, pay attention differently to the child when they start a new "regime". The parents have a profound effect on the child, even when they have convinced themselves that they are being all scientific like and neutral. They are not. The only way to test the effectiveness of a pill on the kid is to get two absolutely identical looking and tasting pills and have someone randomly give the parent one bottle or the other where the person giving the bottle doesn't know which one they are giving the parent (double blind). Then if the parent asked the school if the kid is changing (after some period) and they say "kid is getting better", or "kid is getting worse" and then if the parents were unblinded, they'd have an idea if the pill was doing the thing. Particularly if they did a cross over where the kid got the real pill and then the placebo and then the real pill and then the placebo (or vice versa) and the parent was blinded to the time of the change over, etc. Then they'd have an idea if a pattern emerged. it still wouldn't be perfect evidence but it would be a little more convincing. The very same placebo effect by proxy can happen with medications for seizures because the parental report of seizures is affected by how much hope they have in the medication. This according to a doctor who prescribes medications for seizures in children (Dr. Rust who testified in the Omnibus hearing). It's not about accusations of "the biomed parents are dumb" it's about the fallibility of people, period. I have believed in probably ineffective therapies. I was a big time hippie, health food store groupie for a long time. I bought expensive vitamins for my kids when it really hurt my very limited budget to do that. I read all the groovy and serious looking books and vitamin and herb therapies for everything. I still have lots of bottles in my cabinets of essential oils from my aromatherapy period. I still have books on acupressure and I was into reflexology. I took my kid to an acupuncturist when I likewise could not really afford to. I did moxabustion for crying out loud. How many people can say that! I have hippie/organic/crunchy-granola street cred. I own a pair Earth Shoes! My ASD kid used to wear Birkenstocks. My kids never drank kool-ade at my house, only 100% real juice. (sorry...for the perseveration) Back to the placebo thing. I worry about a mom or dad deciding that the kids a whiner and not taking him or her in to see the doctor when it's necessary. I also wonder why the kid is a hypochondriac and if there isn't a better way to address that than feeding the hypochondria via giving pills, even if they are sugar pills. In other news, a mom on the EoHam group claims she totally (absolutely) cured a formerly very impaired (nonverbal) autistic child with nothing but drops of water, or drops of water on sugar pills. Of course, she called it homeopathy. No evidence for the power of the placebo effect in autism, I guess? No evidence for the power of tincture of time? :-] The placebo effect in autistic kids is not just about not showing the autistic kids which pills they are getting. When a double blind study is done on autistic kids (or babies) they blind the parents to the condition. It doesn’t matter so much if the child or the school doesn’t know what pill the kid is taking or what is in the bread. What matters most is if the parents or the doctor knows. The parents absolutely will look at the child differently, have different expectations about how the child will act, pay attention differently to the child when they start a new “regime”.

The parents have a profound effect on the child, even when they have convinced themselves that they are being all scientific like and neutral. They are not.

The only way to test the effectiveness of a pill on the kid is to get two absolutely identical looking and tasting pills and have someone randomly give the parent one bottle or the other where the person giving the bottle doesn’t know which one they are giving the parent (double blind). Then if the parent asked the school if the kid is changing (after some period) and they say “kid is getting better”, or “kid is getting worse” and then if the parents were unblinded, they’d have an idea if the pill was doing the thing. Particularly if they did a cross over where the kid got the real pill and then the placebo and then the real pill and then the placebo (or vice versa) and the parent was blinded to the time of the change over, etc. Then they’d have an idea if a pattern emerged.

it still wouldn’t be perfect evidence but it would be a little more convincing.

The very same placebo effect by proxy can happen with medications for seizures because the parental report of seizures is affected by how much hope they have in the medication. This according to a doctor who prescribes medications for seizures in children (Dr. Rust who testified in the Omnibus hearing). It’s not about accusations of “the biomed parents are dumb” it’s about the fallibility of people, period.

I have believed in probably ineffective therapies. I was a big time hippie, health food store groupie for a long time. I bought expensive vitamins for my kids when it really hurt my very limited budget to do that. I read all the groovy and serious looking books and vitamin and herb therapies for everything. I still have lots of bottles in my cabinets of essential oils from my aromatherapy period. I still have books on acupressure and I was into reflexology. I took my kid to an acupuncturist when I likewise could not really afford to. I did moxabustion for crying out loud. How many people can say that! I have hippie/organic/crunchy-granola street cred.

I own a pair Earth Shoes! My ASD kid used to wear Birkenstocks. My kids never drank kool-ade at my house, only 100% real juice. (sorry…for the perseveration)

Back to the placebo thing. I worry about a mom or dad deciding that the kids a whiner and not taking him or her in to see the doctor when it’s necessary. I also wonder why the kid is a hypochondriac and if there isn’t a better way to address that than feeding the hypochondria via giving pills, even if they are sugar pills.

In other news, a mom on the EoHam group claims she totally (absolutely) cured a formerly very impaired (nonverbal) autistic child with nothing but drops of water, or drops of water on sugar pills. Of course, she called it homeopathy.

No evidence for the power of the placebo effect in autism, I guess? No evidence for the power of tincture of time? :-]

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