Monozygous twins also share an in utero environment. Fraternal twins do also, and there is excess ASD concordance among fraternal twins than there is among siblings implicating the in utero environment. It is in utero that the major neural structures of the brain are formed, and it is these structures that have been shown to be affected in children and adults with ASDs. The only time those structures can change their morphology is in utero.

A complex genetic hypothesis of ASDs has a hard time explaining the common phenotype. If the ASD phenotype is an emergent property of many genes, how can such an emergent property evolve and be maintained in the gene pool?

My hypothesis is that the broader ASD phenotype is an emergent property of a human nervous system that develops under certain kinds of “stress”, with low NO being the “final common pathway” by which the epigenetic programming that results in the ASD phenotype are mediated.

Wigglers study didn’t really look at what the actual copy number of the different genes actually was. What they did was look at markers all along the genome, and if some were missing, they looked in detail in that vicinity. The most common deletion they observed was in genes associated with the SNARE complex, a complex of genes that is necessary for synapse formation and activity. Someone asked a question pointing out that that complex is duplicated multiple times in the genome. A loss of one copy may have no functional significance. They didn’t discuss what the actual total number of copies of the genes were, only if the copy at the region they looked at was missing.

The loss of genes that they found also seemed to be associated with telomeres in that they tended to be close to the ends of the chromosomes. The samples they looked at were from blood, peripheral mononuclear cells. These are blood cells which have replicated many more times than the cells which comprise the brain.

If you all do not do anything quickly,I will assure
you that in another ten years time all these
autistics and ASPIES will end up in the neurosurgery
theatre to have their brains scooped out or
current passed into their thalamus and caudate
nucleus through microelectrodes.A genre of
neurosurgeons are now getting specialised
in deep brain stimulation and ablation of
certain areas of brain like cingulate cortex.
Their contention ie the neurosurgeons
believe that lack of sensory integration
is the pathology of ASPIES and so they will
stimulate it through microelectrodes
and if an ASPIE gets aggressive or is
mispercieved to be so then an ablative procedure
would be the treatment of choice.I am presently
working as an observer in neurosurgery and
I am an Asperger.My father worked as a
painter in CT scan unit of Siemens India limited.
My sister had long bone dysplasia and
features of pseudohypoparathyridism and
my brother has a hemiparesis.So isnt there a
link between lead of paintspray used to paint
CT scanners.We lived for nearly four decades
in Bombay,which was quite polluted.We could
have consumed fishes which had consumed
mercury from sea or other heavy metals as
well.I have taken many vaccines including
small pox vaccine.One more thing.Genes and
the physical body constitute the phenotype and
the genotype.But what about mind and conciousness?Where will you put them?It is
true knowing genes is not the same thing as
knowing the person.What does the geneticist
know about the INTRONS which are the non
coding regions in a chromosome and which
forms the bulk of genetic material.They say it is
probably linked to evolution.The coding region
called the EXONS are smaller.Trace all the
medical doctors and other professionals
who are ASPIES and let them all fight this out.
Americans are interested in war.So let this
Autism movement too be debated and discussed
on a war footing by all those who are affected
by it.That is the only way to sell Autism.
You will have to fight the toxins,the vaccines
and the ablative neurosurgery.Take this issue
to the WHO where under the secretary general
Dr Margaret Chang they are reconfiguring the
neurological illness.First of all bring this
autism related disorders under the Neurology
speciality.That is the first safe move to be
attempted.Remember all specialities are
moving towards intervention oriented treatment
protocol because it fetches money and
ASPIES will soon become easy targets.Under
psychiatry discipline ASPIES are not safe.
The stigmata will only compound the general
lack of acceptance.Plan a mass crusade to the
White house and the governors.Employ as many
socially prominent ASPIES like Bill Gates and
Temple Gardin and other work of art and poems.
The movement has to jump out of the
internet into the Real world.Otherwise the
movement will be overshadowed by the
Iraq and the oil crisis.Remember the energy
crisis will become very severe within the next seventy five years the time when the renewable
energy or fossil fuel will be depleted.So now is the time or else the oil race will overtake the Autism
race.And the latter is disadvantageous on
the communication front and so the stumbling
blocks are more.In these remaining seventy odd years what chances are there that an absolute and undeniable connection between a toxin
and autism is made?The industry will keep
pushing it aside.And the more they push it aside
the more they will weaken the movement.Let a
cess be imposed on all such industries to
support the autism education and livelihood.
The more articulate must project the ASPIES
as part of a neurodiversity as often as possible
and in as different way as possible.The
conciousness study center in Berkely is a
good center to launch such literature and maybe
even for research.Lastly what has the intelligent
jews got to say about Autism?Are the ASPIES
and the jews neurogenetically similar?Then
let us migrate to Israel and set up an ASPIE
nation.The jews have been bullied all the time
and so are the ASPIES.Do we possess a holocaust gene or a bully suppresed gene.
Man is one third gene,one third body and one
third conciousness.You cannot put the cart ahead of the horse.Who is the cart and who is the horse amongst these three?Thank you.

Professor Wigler reported that in his sample 90% of cases were sporadic, the parents did not have the abnormal copy number variation and that 10% were inherited copy number variations.

SInce 90% of the parents were unaffected, the whole concept of the broad autism phenotype has been rendered by this study as nothing more than psychoabble.

Kristina you either have to accept Wigler’s study or accept his conclusions as invalid, you can’t have it both ways.

Which scientist are you talking about, Kristina? I know a few scientists who study autism, some of whom seem quite probably on the spectrum themselves, and who model quirks quite beautifully when they are asked questions by the “public.”

The scientist referred to is the chemistry professor from Princeton who spoke; he talked about Michael Wigler’s theory about de novo and hereditary autism. I had thought of the “spectrum factor”—thanks for pointing that out.

I know, indeed. I was just pointing out that MY notes were oversimplified as to their implications, not yours.

Sorry for the tiny errors.

Indeed, Patrick, that is a basic grasp at it, regarding the nature of pet theories. At this level it seems the discussion is pushing for a “why”, which isn’t particularly clear. Thus, the theories that get thrown out.

I don’t particularly make ultimate claims as to the “cause” of my condition (and, honestly, I’m not sure I all care. It’s meaningless, and the only thing that might come out of it is personal modification, which I’m not, well, thrilled about).

Noted, though.

Cliff

I cannot say that my condition was caused by either genetics or vaccines, or a combination of both, because I am willing to acknowledge that Science/Medicine has not done enough work.

I can do nothing but pity those who are living in their delusions of truth. (Though sometimes they make me want to get right in their face and ask them if they or the autist they are whining about is the dumber of the two.)

Interpretation of twin studies is a marvelous example of how autism genetic theorists (who Rutter has described as genetic evangelists) interpret (or perhaps misinterpret) the meaning of twin studies. If there is a higher concordance rate for any condition in identical twins vs fraternal twins the condition ergo is ‘genetic’. Mathematical computations compute a theoretical heritability estimate which some autism researchers have placed as high as being 90% heritable.

These century old type of archaeic twin studies say nothing about whether a condition represents genetic heritability or genetic susceptability. Genetic susceptability simply does not equate to genetic inevitability.

THere is a condition that might be considered to be the Gold Standard for a gene-environment interaction model where genetic studies published over many decades are strikingly imilar to the genetic studies published in autism research.

Leprosy is caused by exposure to the bacteria Myobacterium Laprae. Twin studies have shown the same high concordance rates in MZ twins ( 60 – 85% ) and the same rapid falloff in concordance rates in DZ twin pairs ( 5 – 20%). Identical to autism. Leprosy is also known to cluster within kinships with a sib recurrance risk rate identical to autism. Heritability estimates for leprosy using mathematical calcualtions based on the incidence of multiple incidence families has been reported as leprosy being over 80% heritable.

http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v27/n4/full/ng0401_439.html

There is also a very strong genetic compnent in determing who is and who is not susceptabile to developing leprosy after exposure the the bacteria. The disease is now considered to involve a polygenic susceptability model interacting with a known strong environmental component.. exposure to Myobacterium Laprae

The concept of emergent properties tells us that very simply. Daedalus mentioned neurons. A neuron is simply a cell. No one could predict what a bundle of these cells can do together, but in us, in combination with the rest of us, properties emerge that for now are completely unpredictable to us. Table salt is probably the most simple example of emergent properties. Sodium. Chlorine. Nasty things separately, but beautiful delicious table salt emerges when you put them together. It’s not predictable based on their individual characteristics. The same applies to series of nucleotides or the letters in a novel without markers for spaces, periods, commas, and paragraphs. The sense only emerges when specific combinations are demarcated.

In no way am I trying to over simplify the complexity of human behaviors or the neuroanatomy which leads to those behaviors.

That top paragraph was supposed to be way down at the front of the second discussion, and I did want to note that I was directing this toward daedalus2u’s theories.

Someone’s been studying a bit too long…

Cliff