AA Religious In Nature?
February 5, 2009 by Mark
Filed under Diseases & Conditions
Be clear in the implications that saying this might offer. THIS IS A PERSONAL OPINION! I DO NOT SAY THIS TO REPRESENT ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS! Clear enough?
If you take an unnecessary opportunity to reply to a post about Big Book Prayers to argue that AA is religious in nature then you no doubt are attempting to proselytize an alternative. Else, why argue?
Which means you’re working to try to win a useless argument where no argument had existed.
AA thrives on religious principles. Recovery thrives on religious principles. AA and recovery means that lives which would otherwise have been lost will now be saved.
You who argue appear to have something against the saving of lives. Why? Because you have a resentment towards religion. It just isn’t rocket science. Your resentments are unhealthy and misguided.
But that is just my personal opinion.
Mark – so you agree A.A. IS religious? Becuase I have heard in countless meetings that A.A. is spiritual but not religious. Where do they get that idea? Probably the Big Book (Forward to Second Edition, 3rd paragraph from the end). And at least 3 pamphlets (”Young People and A.A.”, “A Newcomer Asks”, and “44 Questions”). Also, “About A.A., A Newsletter For Professionals”, Fall 2003, published by A.A. World Services has an article — “The A.A. Program – Spiritual But Never ‘Religious’”. A.A. has also tried to argue in all those court cases that they aren’t religious.
“Recovery thrives on religious principles”??? I’ll buy that the 12 steps “thrive” on religious principles, but recovery?
Recovery from the mental disorder/disease of substance addiction has no more to do with religion than recovery from any other disease, mental or physical. Science shows us that addiction, rather than being the “spiritual malady” long touted, is in fact a chemical disorder of the brain, and one which can be medically treated. Presenting addiction as the one and only ailment of mankind that requires a belief in a higher power–preferably a monotheistic deity that can hear our prayers and is capable of miraculous healing–is archaic.
Let’s see – “Here are the steps we took which are suggested as a program of recovery.”
Zenith, based on your words, please run your thought past me again???
Principles!!! What is foggy about that word???
Bottom line? You are entitled to your opinion. I guess I didn’t make that clear enough – that this was my opinion. You see it differently. Okay, fine. Please don’t drink, use, or whatever it is that you do that was killing you.
dont worry about the nature, just do it.
please, and thanks.
Zenith is quite clear to me. But Mark, I can’t make heads or tails out of your last post.
And back to the original topic – don’t you think that a program that advocates “rigorous honesty” should quit claiming to be not religious?
“If you take an unnecessary opportunity to reply to a post about Big Book Prayers to argue that AA is religious in nature then you no doubt are attempting to proselytize an alternative. Else, why argue?”
I’m not promoting any specific treatment. No treatment at all works about the same as AA. I’ve just been pointimg out the the courts governing 16 states so far have ruled AA to be “religious in nature” and that mandated AA is a violation of the Establishment Clause. No higher couerts have ruled otherwise.
AA denies that it is, in fact, religious.
AA, in fact, states that it “is not a religious organization.” Page xx of the Foreward To Second Edition.
You’re wrong again… plus, you most certainly are promoting an alternative. Puhleeezeee
What do you mean that I’m “wrong again”?
I posted easily verifiable facts. AA has been declared by the Second, the Seventh, and the Ninth Federal Circuit Courts and and Supreme Court of Tennessee to be “religious in nature”.
Harvard professor, researcher, and member of AA’s board of Trustees performed one of the most detailed studies of AA’s effectiveness. He published a book on these studies, “The Natural History of Alcoholism: Causes, Patterns, and Paths to Recovery”. He said of his findings: “Not only had we failed to alter the natural history of alcoholism, but our death rate of three percent a year was appalling.” Most studies give AA a 4 – 7% success rate, the rate of spontanious remission for alcoholism (people quitting without treatment or programs) is estimated by Harvard Medical to be 5%. If 5% stay sober with AA and 5% stay sober on their own, I’d say that 5% are motivated to quit and will do so with any program. For a treatment to be effective, it must have a success rate greater than 5%. And then there’s that pesky mortality rate…