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	<title>Comments on: Adolescence: Not easy, but no need to end it</title>
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	<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/</link>
	<description>Family, Health, Home and Lifestyles</description>
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		<title>By: Trepidation and Treadmills</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/comment-page-1/#comment-564838</link>
		<dc:creator>Trepidation and Treadmills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 08:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/#comment-564838</guid>
		<description>[...] that there&#8217;s been some trepidation in our little corner of the cosmos. This whole business of adolescence combined with an ongoing growth spurt has made our daily routine well, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that there&#8217;s been some trepidation in our little corner of the cosmos. This whole business of adolescence combined with an ongoing growth spurt has made our daily routine well, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Navi</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/comment-page-1/#comment-564378</link>
		<dc:creator>Navi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 21:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>things are taught earlier in the more affluent districts... not necessarily in others.

See, for example two of the comments:
What do you mean by “earlier”? Up here, they’re taught starting in pre-school, and a lot of kids enter pre-school already knowing 1-10, and basic concepts of science (baby bear comes from a mommy bear etc.). Which mathematical and scientific concepts do you start with, and when?

and 

Our kids have been studying science since preschool, too. These days, kindergarten is the new first grade, first grade is the new second grade, etc. You’re practically expected to enter kindergarten as a reader. They do accelerated math in second grade, which is basically third-grade math in second grade.

two very contrasting examples of what &#039;early&#039; education is, the way I read them.

teaching things earlier may have caused my daughter to have more of an interest in math earlier. She hated the subject until she got to fractions, and didn&#039;t mind the algebra lesson she recently got in 5th grade. However, timing how fast she can write the answers to addition and subtraction questions? She hated it.

Frankly earlier learning, so long as it is in a manner the children find interesting could be beneficial. Earlier learning doesn&#039;t necessarily mean more work, however. Differentiated learning however, is the true way to go. Unfortunately, it&#039;s typically only the schools with Gifted Education programs that provide that and only to their &#039;smart&#039; students.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>things are taught earlier in the more affluent districts&#8230; not necessarily in others.</p>
<p>See, for example two of the comments:<br />
What do you mean by “earlier”? Up here, they’re taught starting in pre-school, and a lot of kids enter pre-school already knowing 1-10, and basic concepts of science (baby bear comes from a mommy bear etc.). Which mathematical and scientific concepts do you start with, and when?</p>
<p>and </p>
<p>Our kids have been studying science since preschool, too. These days, kindergarten is the new first grade, first grade is the new second grade, etc. You’re practically expected to enter kindergarten as a reader. They do accelerated math in second grade, which is basically third-grade math in second grade.</p>
<p>two very contrasting examples of what &#8216;early&#8217; education is, the way I read them.</p>
<p>teaching things earlier may have caused my daughter to have more of an interest in math earlier. She hated the subject until she got to fractions, and didn&#8217;t mind the algebra lesson she recently got in 5th grade. However, timing how fast she can write the answers to addition and subtraction questions? She hated it.</p>
<p>Frankly earlier learning, so long as it is in a manner the children find interesting could be beneficial. Earlier learning doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean more work, however. Differentiated learning however, is the true way to go. Unfortunately, it&#8217;s typically only the schools with Gifted Education programs that provide that and only to their &#8217;smart&#8217; students.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristina Chew, PhD</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/comment-page-1/#comment-559023</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristina Chew, PhD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/#comment-559023</guid>
		<description>One thing he could have noted is the general downcast look of people (my college students for instance) at the mention of middle school. Not a happy time for many students-----</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing he could have noted is the general downcast look of people (my college students for instance) at the mention of middle school. Not a happy time for many students&#8212;&#8211;</p>
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		<title>By: Storkdok</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/comment-page-1/#comment-562952</link>
		<dc:creator>Storkdok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/#comment-562952</guid>
		<description>Newt sure blew this one.  He didn&#039;t even consult with pediatricians or endocrinologists or neurologists or gynecologists on the wide body of science that exists on the very real physiologic changes that occur during adolescence.  The human brain is not even fully developed until the mid-20&#039;s.

But then, why anyone would listen to him is beyond me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Newt sure blew this one.  He didn&#8217;t even consult with pediatricians or endocrinologists or neurologists or gynecologists on the wide body of science that exists on the very real physiologic changes that occur during adolescence.  The human brain is not even fully developed until the mid-20&#8217;s.</p>
<p>But then, why anyone would listen to him is beyond me.</p>
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		<title>By: Regan</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/comment-page-1/#comment-563025</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 21:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/#comment-563025</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;When the talk turns too much to teaching Charlie “pro-voc” skills and our requests for music lessons are greeted with “oh sure” and bland nods and suppressed rollings-of-eyes, I hear the voice of “hurry hurry hurry.”&lt;/i&gt;

I believe that no one, no matter how expert, is omniscient enough to know absolutely where anyone will be 10, 20 or 30 years hence. It might be me, but having enriched and leisure activities, apart from such as watching TV, that one enjoys when not doing the &quot;vocational&quot; or basic survival stuff, also counts as &quot;functional&quot;. (See, &quot;Rebecca&quot; and &quot;A Walking Grove&quot; from &quot; The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat and Other Clinical Tales&quot;)

To discount those without serious consideration could raise some questions about person-centered programming and social validity.

As far as Mr. Gingrich, I can see some point in giving young people opportunities for active learning, and maybe even practical experience as part of the enterprise of education, although my personal bugaboo is with very young children perhaps being goaded too early into academics (others might disagree with that one). 

I won&#039;t comment further except to wonder what he did between 13-19, and what he thought of his own adolescence?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>When the talk turns too much to teaching Charlie “pro-voc” skills and our requests for music lessons are greeted with “oh sure” and bland nods and suppressed rollings-of-eyes, I hear the voice of “hurry hurry hurry.”</i></p>
<p>I believe that no one, no matter how expert, is omniscient enough to know absolutely where anyone will be 10, 20 or 30 years hence. It might be me, but having enriched and leisure activities, apart from such as watching TV, that one enjoys when not doing the &#8220;vocational&#8221; or basic survival stuff, also counts as &#8220;functional&#8221;. (See, &#8220;Rebecca&#8221; and &#8220;A Walking Grove&#8221; from &#8221; The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat and Other Clinical Tales&#8221;)</p>
<p>To discount those without serious consideration could raise some questions about person-centered programming and social validity.</p>
<p>As far as Mr. Gingrich, I can see some point in giving young people opportunities for active learning, and maybe even practical experience as part of the enterprise of education, although my personal bugaboo is with very young children perhaps being goaded too early into academics (others might disagree with that one). </p>
<p>I won&#8217;t comment further except to wonder what he did between 13-19, and what he thought of his own adolescence?</p>
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		<title>By: Emily</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/comment-page-1/#comment-563014</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 20:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/#comment-563014</guid>
		<description>Our kids have been studying science since preschool, too. These days, kindergarten is the new first grade, first grade is the new second grade, etc. You&#039;re practically expected to enter kindergarten as a reader. They do accelerated math in second grade, which is basically third-grade math in second grade. We&#039;ve been making change, considering things out to several orders of magnitude, and otherwise engaging in things mathematical and scientific for several years around here, and our oldest is in second grade. They&#039;ve changed the curriculum a lot since I was in school (elementary in the 70s), that much I know for sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our kids have been studying science since preschool, too. These days, kindergarten is the new first grade, first grade is the new second grade, etc. You&#8217;re practically expected to enter kindergarten as a reader. They do accelerated math in second grade, which is basically third-grade math in second grade. We&#8217;ve been making change, considering things out to several orders of magnitude, and otherwise engaging in things mathematical and scientific for several years around here, and our oldest is in second grade. They&#8217;ve changed the curriculum a lot since I was in school (elementary in the 70s), that much I know for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/comment-page-1/#comment-563002</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 20:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Adolescence is not only a social construct. Just because people didn&#039;t figure that out until 100 years ago doesn&#039;t mean it didn&#039;t exist. Kind of like autism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adolescence is not only a social construct. Just because people didn&#8217;t figure that out until 100 years ago doesn&#8217;t mean it didn&#8217;t exist. Kind of like autism.</p>
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		<title>By: mayfly</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/comment-page-1/#comment-563883</link>
		<dc:creator>mayfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/#comment-563883</guid>
		<description>Jen:  As far as math is concerned, simple single-variable equation solving could be introduced before middle school.

Some simple physics such as 

F=ma, how simple machines work.   

It seems to me that not much happens between 3rd and 6th grade, but  that was long, long ago for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jen:  As far as math is concerned, simple single-variable equation solving could be introduced before middle school.</p>
<p>Some simple physics such as </p>
<p>F=ma, how simple machines work.   </p>
<p>It seems to me that not much happens between 3rd and 6th grade, but  that was long, long ago for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Jen</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/comment-page-1/#comment-563850</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/#comment-563850</guid>
		<description>If you look at the &quot;history of childhood&quot; as Newt Gingrich espouses it, he&#039;s not actually that far off.  It wasn&#039;t until after the abolition of child labour and the recognition of childhood as a separate stage of development that any kind of concept of adolescence became common.  Before that the common concept was that you went straight from being a child to being an adult, thus children went into the workforce and army extremely early.   Even before that (if you look at the Tudor period in England, for example, up until the post-Victorian age), children were considered to be &quot;little adults&quot;.  That was evidenced not only by their clothing but by their duties and responsibilities (espousal at young ages, ability to converse with adults outside of the home at extremely early ages, the expectation that they would work, etc.)  

Children weren&#039;t children for a longer period of time- they were forced to become adults earlier.   Once the idea of childhood changed and they were no longer forced to act like miniature adults, go to work, or hold other adult responsibilities, then the idea of adolescence began to evolve. 

Mayfly, I&#039;m curious as to what your sources are to say that teaching mathematics and scientific concepts could be taught earlier.  What do you mean by &quot;earlier&quot;?  Up here, they&#039;re taught starting in pre-school, and a lot of kids enter pre-school already knowing 1-10, and basic concepts of science (baby bear comes from a mommy bear etc.).  Which mathematical and scientific concepts do you start with, and when?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you look at the &#8220;history of childhood&#8221; as Newt Gingrich espouses it, he&#8217;s not actually that far off.  It wasn&#8217;t until after the abolition of child labour and the recognition of childhood as a separate stage of development that any kind of concept of adolescence became common.  Before that the common concept was that you went straight from being a child to being an adult, thus children went into the workforce and army extremely early.   Even before that (if you look at the Tudor period in England, for example, up until the post-Victorian age), children were considered to be &#8220;little adults&#8221;.  That was evidenced not only by their clothing but by their duties and responsibilities (espousal at young ages, ability to converse with adults outside of the home at extremely early ages, the expectation that they would work, etc.)  </p>
<p>Children weren&#8217;t children for a longer period of time- they were forced to become adults earlier.   Once the idea of childhood changed and they were no longer forced to act like miniature adults, go to work, or hold other adult responsibilities, then the idea of adolescence began to evolve. </p>
<p>Mayfly, I&#8217;m curious as to what your sources are to say that teaching mathematics and scientific concepts could be taught earlier.  What do you mean by &#8220;earlier&#8221;?  Up here, they&#8217;re taught starting in pre-school, and a lot of kids enter pre-school already knowing 1-10, and basic concepts of science (baby bear comes from a mommy bear etc.).  Which mathematical and scientific concepts do you start with, and when?</p>
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		<title>By: mayfly</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/adolescence-not-easy-but-no-need-to-end-it/comment-page-1/#comment-563863</link>
		<dc:creator>mayfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Most of the comments have to do with Mr. Gingrich and not his ideas.   However,  consider this 

Numbers 1: 2-3

&quot;Take ye the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel after their  families by the house of their fathers, with the numbers of their names, every male by their polls.  From 20 years old and upwards, all that are able to go forth to war in Israel;  thou Aaron shall number them by their armies.&quot;

So the Israelites at the time of Moses built their armies from men 20 years of age and older.   This gives  pause to the claim that full adulthood past adolescence was a 19th century concept.

He is right in stating mathematical and scientific concepts could be taught much earlier than they are.

I don&#039;t see how this can be seen as an effort to grow Republicans.  Youths tend to be liberal and giving them more responsibility should tilt things to the left.

He&#039;s trying to come up with an answer to things such as the amount of crime in the country so much of which is committed by adolescents by doing away with adolescence.  I don&#039;t see how one puts such an idea into practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of the comments have to do with Mr. Gingrich and not his ideas.   However,  consider this </p>
<p>Numbers 1: 2-3</p>
<p>&#8220;Take ye the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel after their  families by the house of their fathers, with the numbers of their names, every male by their polls.  From 20 years old and upwards, all that are able to go forth to war in Israel;  thou Aaron shall number them by their armies.&#8221;</p>
<p>So the Israelites at the time of Moses built their armies from men 20 years of age and older.   This gives  pause to the claim that full adulthood past adolescence was a 19th century concept.</p>
<p>He is right in stating mathematical and scientific concepts could be taught much earlier than they are.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see how this can be seen as an effort to grow Republicans.  Youths tend to be liberal and giving them more responsibility should tilt things to the left.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s trying to come up with an answer to things such as the amount of crime in the country so much of which is committed by adolescents by doing away with adolescence.  I don&#8217;t see how one puts such an idea into practice.</p>
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