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Thursday, December 10th, 2009

At Least 72 Measles Cases in the US

May 1, 2008 by Kristina Chew, PhD  
Filed under Health

The biggest measles outbreak—72 cases so far—since 2001 is occurring across the US, today’s Reuters reports. No one who has caught the highly contagious disease has died, but 14 people have been hospitalized, mostly with pneumonia brought on by measles.

The CDC said 64 cases were reported from January 1 through April 25 in Arizona, California, Hawaii, Illinois, Michigan, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia and Wisconsin.

Eight more confirmed cases — all involving unvaccinated children in one family who had attended a church gathering in the Seattle area — have been reported since then in Washington state, the state department of health said on Thursday.

There were 116 cases of measles in the US in 2001, with the last major outbreak occurring from 1989 to 1991, when 55,000 people got measles and 123 died.

Did proponents, some quite vocal, of the hypothesis that vaccines or something in vaccines might be linked to autism consider that something like this outbreak might happen?

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Comments

99 Responses to “At Least 72 Measles Cases in the US”
  1. H6 says:

    Mike,

    You mention “immune building products.” Is there any agreement about what immunological problems are associated with autism?

  2. HCN says:

    Terri Lewis said “Who could possibly be opposed to administering vaccines more safely? Or making those vaccines safer by removing unnecessary, toxic ingredients?”

    Before you make something safer you must find out if it injures and how. You can’t say that the MMR is dangerous without evidence as to what horrible things it does. Presently, from the CDC Pink Book chapter on measles, the adverse reactions to MMR include:
    Fever: 5% – 15%
    Rash: 5%
    Joint Symptoms: 25% of adult women given MMR
    Thrombocytopenia: less than 1/30,000 doses
    Parotitis: rare
    Deafness: rare
    Encephalopathy: less than 1/1,000,000 doses

    These are known and real risks. What additional risks do you have documentation for? How do they compare to the very real risks of an actual measles infection (if you have child who has not had the MMR it looks like herd immunity in this country has eroded enough to make a measles infection a very real possibility). How would you change the MMR to make it better? An example would to find a way to not use eggs in its production. The measles chapter in the Pink Book does have a long list of people who should NOT get the MMR for other reasons, which present other valid reasons to make it better.

    But the question is to you: What problems with the MMR do you know, with evidence, make it more risky than measles that should be addressed?

    By the way, I only mock those who troll the autism blogs to sell their stuff, or who divert the comments to their own issues, or who call aluminum a “heavy metal” (sorry, as a former aerospace engineer, that just tickles my funny bone!)… I promise to not mock anyone who posts real actual documented evidence.

  3. stopautismquackery says:

    Yes, Mike now you know what it feels like to have assumptions made about you and your loved ones. You say “Detox or Die” — well we’re all gonna die one day, so carpe diem, baby. I have been a vegan since age 12. I am healthier than most. I have no idea why you are going on and on about flouride. The water into my house has always been filtered and our drinking water is delivered and this is very common where I live. Pls quit thinking you have a monopoly on everyone’s health and well-being. I don’t need to detox, as I have remained relatively healthy thru my lifestyle, as have the other members of my family.

  4. daedalus2u says:

    From the zeolite MSDS, AI2O3 10.6%

    The zeolite has 10.6% Al2O3. That is 10.6% aluminum oxide. Aluminum oxide is more than 50% aluminum. Mike’s zeolites is 5.6% aluminum. In 1 gram of his zeolite there is 56 mg of aluminum.

    What is used in vaccines is either aluminum hydroxide or aluminum phosphate. The reason it is used is because it results in a more robust development of antibodies while using less antigen. The antigen is the active part of the vaccine, and is the part that is difficult to manufacture. Using an adjuvant like aluminum hydroxide allows less antigen to be used while still producing a good immune response.

    The FDA limits vaccines to 0.85 mg aluminum per dose. Mike’s zeolites has 56 mg aluminum in 1 gram. That is 66 times more aluminum than the maximum dose the FDA allows in a vaccine.

    http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0264-410X(02)00166-4

  5. Mike says:

    LOL, you trust and believe the governments data? Do you also believe that smoking doesn’t cause cancer and isn’t addictive? Why not! The scientists and doctors working for the tobacco companies said so and have the studies to back it up! But that’s a conflict of interest you say, so you take those studies with a grain (or pound) of salt? Well that’s mighty wise of you, after all, when a conflict of interest exists, it’s impossible for a rational thinking person to believe much of anything produced from said conflict of interest.

    So then, Mr engineer, why do you accept anything the CDC or FDA says as fact when they are in fact paid and bought for by the very drug companies that fund them and stand to profit (or lose money via litigation) from said studies? Remember the original CDC info that suggested that kids who got “shots” developed Autism 11 times more (1100% more) than kids who didn’t get shots. Then, in subsequent reports, the numbers were manipulated and then 25% of the original data was “lost or accidentally destroyed” to produce the final government story that there was “no significant difference” in autism rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated kids.” If you believe that, then I question your ability to think deductively and objectively, with all due respect. Conflict of interest + 25% lost or destroyed data = (you fill in the blank).

  6. stopautismquackery says:

    Ah, then I suppose we should now disregard what Mike says the FDA says in regarding this:

    “The source I sell is the only one that has been inspected by the FDA and given a MSDS number (copied by many others). It’s also tested for purity”

    Since Mike’s now claiming this:

    “… the CDC or FDA [...] are in fact paid and bought for by the very drug companies that fund them and stand to profit (or lose money via litigation) from said studies.”

  7. HCN says:

    Mr. Engineer?

    Does that refer to me? I’m a mom who had to quit work to take care of a baby who had seizures, who ended up with some other disabilities. That is why I am a FORMER aerospace engineer.

    I will take you calling me “Mr. Engineer” as a societal standard that all aerospace engineers have a Y-chromosome. Which is about as accurate as your understanding of science. (does this mean you will now refuse to fly because several airplane systems from flight controls, landing systems, wing design and everything else may have included the input of women engineers from Southern California, Australia, Georgia, France, Alabama, Washington, Italy, England and Japan?)

    I asked you how MMR caused SIDS. SIDS is defined as an unexplained death prior to a child’s first birthday. The MMR is not given (at least in the USA and Europe) until a child is over a year old.

    How can a child die from MMR induced SIDS under those conditions?

    I am not just accepting anything from CDC or FDA unless it is documented. The CDC Pink Book does have a list of references. I would post more references if this blog would not put me automatically into moderation (which it does anyway, sigh). Actually, I have posted references from PubMed… where are yours?

    You say “Remember the original CDC info that suggested that kids who got “shots” developed Autism 11 times more (1100% more) than kids who didn’t get shots. ”

    Ummm, where is that documented?

  8. HCN says:

    Okay, I had absolutely no links in my last posting. It is not my habit to use profanity, and I am not trying to sell anything.

    Yet, every single time I post to this blog my comment must wait for moderation.

    I really, really hope that Mike the Liquid Zeolite spammer gets the same treatment.

  9. HCN says:

    Okay, the last post just proved me wrong.

    Until the previous post get approved (which had no URL links!)… I will just ask Mike the Spammer one question: Where is the documentation for your claims?

  10. Matt says:

    The guy has been selling this stuff, and he dosen’t even know it contains aluminum? Then he tries to spin it that the aluminum is bound in the structure.

    He appears to me to be just practicing his arguments to make them more convincing for his real customers.

    Matt

  11. daedalus2u,

    You don’t know what you’re talking about. The MSDS is for zeolite, not liquid zeolite or nano zeolite. The zeolite you’re talking about is used in kitty liter and air purifiers to absorb odors, ammonia, etc. It’s a rock. The nano particles that are made for liquid zeolite are bound by oxygen molecules and the aluminum atoms (-2 to 1 nm particles) are part of the nano zeolite molecule and cannot become the toxin metal aluminum that is found in vaccines, you know the one, the one that causes folks who get a flu shot at least 5 times to develop Alzhimers 10 times more often (1000% more) than smart folks that tell the drug companies to shove their flue shot where the sun don’t shine.

    HCN, let me know what you want me to delineate and I will. The 25% “lost or destroyed data” is easily found on google. The famous “11 times more autism” sometimes cited as 27 times more autism …… I have a page on my website talking about this data and a PR that was put-out and never retracted from the National Autism Assn:

    http://liquidzeoliteplus.com/CDC_datalink_27-times_more_likely_to_develop_autism_after_exposure_thimerosal_vaccines.html

    Have to run. Study, learn, react accordingly. (Don’t let your kids get shots!)

  12. Kassiane says:

    Mike the Spammer:

    How much kidney testing is required on zeolite? How much water (ml/kg is acceptable) is necessary to prevent kidney damage?

    Of course, if it’s just placebo there won’t be any documentation on this, because if there is no mechanism of action there aren’t as likely to be side effects. But ANYTHING strong enough to have an effect is also strong enough for side effects.

    And we all know that mercury poisoning isn’t autism anyway. Tinfoil poisoning, however, causes True Believers in the theory *smiles*

  13. Regan says:

    Mike,
    Zeolite is zeolite. If it doesn’t have the basic structure anymore than it is some other mineral. The chemical structure that I gave is what defines it, with the Ca, Na and K indicating the potential cation-exchange ions.
    Zeolite is reasonably inert, as is other clay-derived minerals, such as kaolinite, bentonite or montmorillonite.
    Under certain conditions it can be decomposed to silicates with free release of Al+3, but I am not sure that those are physiologic ones, however, the Al+3 can be released under conditions of incubation with certain lanthanides, such as Gallium–the basis for some proposed scanning procedures.
    As far as the commercial product, if it is prepackaged with many minerals and vitamins, I would have some suspicion that those would interact sooner with the zeolite than anything in anyone’s body, both by concentration and proximity.
    As for the selective binding, the relative cation-exchange capacity is relatively low (≈2.25 meq/g), with a selectivity of is Cs > Rb > K > NH4 > Ba > Sr > Na > Ca > Fe > Al > Mg > Li. So it can exchange and attach Al+3, but that is relatively low on the list.
    As for entering the blood stream, I’m not sure that I would want aluminosilicate particles circulating in my blood, since they are structurally stable. I suspect the mechanism is by ion-change via the gut.

  14. Regan says:

    Apologies for the grammatical errors. Time for bed.

  15. Jennifer says:

    Mike wrote:

    “The nano particles that are made for liquid zeolite are bound by oxygen molecules and the aluminum atoms (-2 to 1 nm particles) are part of the nano zeolite molecule and cannot become the toxin metal aluminum that is found in vaccines,”

    This is just laughable. The aluminum in zeolite has non-zero solubility. (I’m not going to post a link, but just google “Clinoptilolite solubility” and choose the first hit. The form Al is dissolved is Al(OH)4-, which is the same form in vaccines. But the main point is that by using a very finely divided powder (”nano particles” – love the use of faux scientific terms), the kinetics of the dissolution are going to be increased, so that MORE soluble Al will be released into the stomach than if you tried to swallow a rock made of the same material.

  16. daedalus2u says:

    Dr Novella over at Neurologica just had a good post about the kind of discourse that Mike is engaging in.

    http ://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=286

    It isn’t exactly lying because it is clear that Mike doesn’t know enough about chemistry or physiology to know what is correct and so say something he knows is false (lying is representing something you know to be false as true).

    (I put a space after the http in the link to try and make it go through, it didn’t the first time)

  17. This thread is completely demonstrating how far away from “autism” talk about vaccines can lead us!

  18. Over at Age of Autism is a very puzzling post in which Dan Olmsted blames the CDC for “triggering” the measles outbreak. Excerpts:

    “But it’s the CDC’s fault, and no other. Getting the “measles shot” means getting the MMR, and the MMR is “the autism shot” in the minds of many, many parents.”

    He also uses a quotation from Dr. Jon Poling in some interesting ways: Poling calls for reform of the current vaccine schedule” in noting that “every day, more parents and some pediatricians reject the current vaccine schedule” (because of the number of vaccines given at once). Olmsted then quotes Poling and, via selective quotation (which I’m obviously engaging in here), makes it sound that that CDC and other government agencies are to blame if diseases like measles increase:

    Let me tell you one reason why I’m not shy or circumspect about squarely blaming the CDC for this — because Jon Poling, Hannah’s dad, predicted something like this, or much worse, just a few week ago. And he said just what I’m saying. In the Atlanta Journal-Constitution on April 11, he wrote: “The current vaccine schedule, co-sponsored by the CDC and the American Academy of Pediatrics, injures a small but significant minority of children, my daughter unfortunately being one of those victims. Every day, more parents and some pediatricians reject the current vaccine schedule. In an abundance of caution, meaningful reform must be performed urgently to prevent the re-emergence of serious diseases like polio or measles.

    “As a neurologist, I have cared for those afflicted with SSPE (a rare but dreaded neurological complication of measles), paralytic polio and tetanus. If these serious vaccine-preventable diseases again become commonplace, the fault will rest solely on the shoulders of public health leaders and policymakers who have failed to heed the writing on the wall (scribbled by my 9-year old daughter).”

    Dr, Poling is the real deal, educated at Johns Hopkins, devoted both to his daughter and his patients, tempered by reality. He’s mild-mannered. He’s mainstream. He’s credible. To repeat for emphasis:

    He says that if a disease like measles emerges again, “the fault will rest solely on the shoulders of public health leaders and policymakers.”

    That’s the CDC. Right now they’re triggering a measles outbreak, and that may just be the start of the havoc they’re going to cause unless Congress or the (next) president reminds them who’s REALLY in control around here.

    I think Olmsted is trying to argue that (1) the CDC needs to reform the vaccine schedule; (2) because of the current vaccine schedule, parents are not vaccinating their children; (3) therefore the CDC is triggering an increase in infectious diseases.

  19. HCN says:

    Dan Olmsted is prone to flights of fancy. He obviously has no idea how infectious the measles actually is… and neither is he taking responsibility own body of work that blaims vaccines for autism. Even though they had no credible evidence other than some random interviews. They were more fiction than journalism. And yet, folks who decide not vaccine quote from his “Age of Autism” stuff all the time.

    Does he have a problem with taking responsibility for the effect of his own writing?

  20. Do'C says:

    Daedalus2 wrote:

    “It isn’t exactly lying because it is clear that Mike doesn’t know enough about chemistry or physiology to know what is correct and so say something he knows is false (lying is representing something you know to be false as true).”

    Mike the scientifically illiterate MLM-like spammer wrote:

    “The powder absorbs toxic metals in the gut, the liquid toxic metals in the blood.”

    Methinks Daedalus is probably quite correct.

    A. Zeolite doesn’t become liquid until it reaches 1800 degrees farenheit (see that MSDS you linked to Mike). I would suggest that ingesting something at 1800 degrees farenheit is not a good idea.

    B. Clinoptilolite is a powder, suspended in water, it is not a liquid.

    C. The particles are probably of a size way too large (at least a few microns or larger) for significant (if any) intestinal absorption – the chances of absorbing anything in the bloodstream (because it can’t get there in the first place) are nil.

    D. Even if the particles could arrive at the bloodstream (very, very unlikely), the chances that their affinity for things like ammonia haven’t hindered the ability to absorb other things are low.

    E. Even if in some alternate universe, suspended powdered clinoptilolite could get into the bloodstream, it could not traverse the blood brain barrier to remove anything that could be having a neurological impact.

    F. Even if in some alternate universe, suspended powdered clinoptilolite could get into the bloodstream, traverse the blood brain barrier to remove something, there is no evidence whatsoever that it has a chelation constant stronger than existing bonds in brain tissue.

    G. Even if in some alternate universe, suspended powdered clinoptilolite could get into the bloodstream, traverse the blood brain barrier to remove something, had a chelation constant that would actually remove heavy metals, there is no evidence that removal of those heavy metals would reverse any damage.

    H. This is an autism blog, and autism is not synonymous with heavy metal poisoning in the first place.

    That, “I don’t see aluminum on the ingredients list.” was hilarious Mike the scientifically illiterate MLM-like spammer. Thanks for the laugh.

  21. daedalus2u says:

    What Olmsted wrote is complete nonsense, or rather it is what Dr Novella would call bullshit (sorry Kristina for using that word in your blog).

    Because the CDC hasn’t developed perfect vaccines that never cause any injury to any child under any circumstance then all injuries that could be prevented by the less than perfect vaccines such as they are now are the fault of the CDC because parents foolishly reject the good but imperfect vaccines?

    This is complete BS. The CDC is at fault because parents believe Olmsted’s lies over the CDC’s facts and logic? The CDC is at fault because it can’t magically make reality conform to the fantasy that Olmsted has constructed in his mind and tried to convey to parents?

    Why do parents think of MMR as “the autism shot”? Only because ignorant journalists such as Olmsted and Kirby have said it is. I can’t say they have “lied” because they are so ignorant that they are unable to know if what they are saying is true or not. But being ignorant doesn’t excuse you from acting recklessly (which they have).

    It is just like shouting “fire” in a theater. If you know there is a fire, it is a useful warning. If you don’t know a fire it is reckless endangerment. Olmsted wants to blame the fire department because people are injured in the stampede resulting from him shouting “fire”? No, the fault is not with the fire department, it is with the reckless terrorists who have recklessly shouted out false warnings and by doing so have caused much harm.

  22. Mike says:

    LOL, all of you liquid zeolite bashers don’t have a clue, do you. You don’t understand the science behind this and are quoting info on the rock form not the nano form of zeolite because you are ignorant of this new technology. I also find it interesting that nobody cared to comment on my link to the warning letter Merck got last week. I did get a call from someone saying he respresented Merck who asked my if I had an agenda and why I was posting this info all over the Internet. (over 100 posts on different blogs and websites thus far, no sign of slowing down) My only agenda is to let make sure 300 M people know the truth about vaccines and that they’re not only dangerous and unstable, but make by folks who obviously can care less about quality controls or purity of product. Why don’t any of you comment on this FDA warning letter? That’s all I want to talk about for the next week or so until 60 minutes or another national news agency blows the lid off this story. Read’m and weep big pharma …read’m and weep!
    What do you think about last weeks FDA warning letter to Merck that found so many violations it can shut them down? Violations that produced harmful even potentially deadly lots of vaccines that were distributed around the world. Do you think it’s time to short Merck down to $27?
    http://www.fda.gov/foi/warning_letters/s6756c.htm

  23. HCN says:

    Daedalus2u said “Why do parents think of MMR as “the autism shot”? Only because ignorant journalists such as Olmsted and Kirby have said it is. ”

    That is very bizarre. It has been in use in the USA and elsewhere since 1971. But then again, those are the same people who claim it is the “thimerosal in the MMR!”.

    Of course, there has never been thimerosal in the MMR.

    I also have the feeling that Dan Olmsted thinks he is going to be blamed for the rise of measles, so he is trying to weasel out of any responsibility. Sucks for him that lots of the families who don’t vaccinate often cite his “Age of Autism” series.

    I am still waiting for an answer to this question:

    How can the MMR cause SIDS when SIDS is defined as an unexplainable death of a child under the age of one year, and the MMR is not given to a child (in USA, Canada and Europe) under the age of one?

    If Mike the Spammer has any real documented evidence that the MMR is more dangerous than measles, please present it.

    (Speaking of warning letters, you might be interested in this one:
    http://www.fda.gov/foi/warning_letters/s6412c.htm )

  24. Do'C says:

    “LOL, all of you liquid zeolite bashers don’t have a clue, do you. You don’t understand the science behind this and are quoting info on the rock form not the nano form of zeolite because you are ignorant of this new technology.”

    All zeolites (including clinoptilolite) are minerals, or “rock form” you scientifically illiterate boob.
    Would you care to ’splain the “new technology” to us in more scientific detail? I’m sure there are plenty of scientists who just can’t wait to hear about this new discovery. Feel free to refer to you MSDS sheet.

  25. What do you think about last weeks FDA warning letter to Merck that found so many violations it can shut them down? Violations that produced harmful even potentially deadly lots of vaccines that were distributed around the world. Do you think it’s time to short Merck down to $27?
    http://www.fda.gov/foi/warning_letters/s6756c.htm

  26. I’m not worried about the FDA because I don’t claim any of the products I sell cure anything or can be used to treat any disease. I don’t even need a disclaimer since I know what I can and can’t say. If the LLC that owns the website ever get’s a complaint, it will act accordingly however. I own nothing btw. (just control everything, lol)

    If the FDA were worried about zeolite sellers, they’d go after the largest zeolite seller in thw world (their website gets 10 times more traffic than waiora, the mlm brand) This outfit from canada has a good scam going. The website selling the product doesn’t make any claims. The website selling the “cancer cure” claims to be a “independent website not affiliated with any merchant”. Both IP’s are form canada and the fact they’re connected is quite transparent. These people are scamming old folks out of millions of bucks and the fda isn’t doing a thing. I tell people all the time not to take any heavy metal detox product while on chemo (for obvious reasons, chemo is full of heavy metals) while they say that if you have cancer, you need to take their liquid zeolite product. They claim the liquid zeolite activates the P21 gene to cure cancer, among other things. I called them and asked them for the research to back their cancer curing claims and they hung up on me. Here’s their website if you think I’m making this up: http://www.cancerfightingstrategies.com/zeolite.html
    So….if the FDA were going after zeolite sellers, I’d think this outfit would be #1 on their list. They went after that zeo company because they’re trying to portray themselves as a pharma company which put them on the hit list.

    FWIW, even though I sell liquid zeolite, I prefer HMD for heavy metal detox over zeolite products. (I like zeolite for it’s ph raising quality and the minerals and mild detox …doesn’t strip the body of minerals like other products) HMD has been clinically (dbl blind) tested and proven to reomove mercury from the body. We can all agree mercury is not something we want in our systems due to the brain damaging effectmos. Notice I didn’t say it causes autism because the truth is that a number of toxins and environmental factors (fluoride, mercury, artificial flavors, maybe even ELF radiation) most likely cause autism in MOST CASES. However, Mercury and fluoride are neurotoxins that nobody with good sense should want in their system or the system of their children. And I sell a clinically tested and proven product that removes mercury along with other products that boost the immune system (8 mushroom formula) and a 17 strain live probiotic product that aids in digestion and elimination (think gut-autism link) Do I say these cure anything? Of course not. I say that studies suggest this or that, that cancer is caused by this or that, that flooding the body with oxygen does this or that to cancer, all true, all facts.

    In parting, I just want to say …how about that Merck plant violations (see FDA warning letter above), what an outrage, don’t you think?
    LOL, sorry to cause you pharma types such consternation. You deserve it for putting out such health destroying products! Karma baby, karma.

  27. Do'C says:

    “HMD has been clinically (dbl blind) tested and proven to reomove mercury from the body.”

    No it hasn’t. The mercury removal (although not the double-blind testing) has only been sort of claimed by the Naturopath who happens to be the “worldwide patent-pending holder” for HMD. He doesn’t actually make the claim that it has been proven to remove mercury from the body, but rather states,

    “There appears to be a 448 per cent increase in eliminated mercury in the post-test after 24 hour provocation with HMD in the 56 people tested, compared to the baseline sample.”

    Which, without describing the methodology in any scientific detail or providing the mercury data, tells us nothing!

    The paragraph about mercury makes no mention of “double blind” anything. The methodology is not described in any scientific detail in this short mercury paragraph, rendering this advertisement-like “paper” useless.

    “However, Mercury and fluoride are neurotoxins that nobody with good sense should want in their system or the system of their children.”

    Oxygen is a potent cytotoxin. Do you think that nobody with good sense should want it in their system or the system of their children?

    Please go take a basic science class.

  28. HCN says:

    Just a reminder: The MMR has never ever contained thimerosal. The stuff about mercury is actually off topic.

    Still waiting for Mike the Spammer to explain how the MMR causes SIDS, since SIDS is defined as an unexplained death of a child UNDER the age of one, and the MMR is not given to children under the age of one.

    Plus, he needs to provide some actual evidence that the MMR is worse than measles.

    Do’C said “Please go take a basic science class.”

    I agree. Taking a look at Mike the Spammer’s website shows many laughible claims, from chemtrails to zappers.

  29. Emily says:

    Here’s a reminder, too: No matter where you’re looking here, follow the money. I can’t even think of a high-profile person involved on either “side” of this manufactured controversy who doesn’t have money coming to them via some conduit: book, “Thoughtful” homes, counter-vaccines, legal representation,DAN, biomed peddling, lawsuits, zeolite-blah-blah, self-promoting appearances on Larry King for otherwise washed-up former Playboy centerfolds, etc.

    And after you’ve followed the money, settle into some rational thought and some good cost-benefit analyses. And learn some damned science, while you’re at it. That question about “shingles” beats just about everything I’ve seen. My great-grandmother developed shingles in 1991 at age 90, and I’m pretty sure she never received a chicken pox vaccine. There’s no relevance whatsoever to bringing up shingles in this context, although I see that done repeatedly as a way to support an argument that completely misses the mark.

    My point about vaccines’ usefulness in childhood was focused on their protective effects at an otherwise very vulnerable time. Basic reading comprehension, a recognition of the appropriate use of ” ” around “childhood,” and an understanding of the pertussis example should have made that reasonably clear.

  30. Chuck says:

    So it is scientifically correct to say that the reduction in exposure to Varicella zoster virus due to the chicken pox vaccine will not weaken any naturally obtained immunity and increase the likelihood of developing to more complicated Shingles later on in life?

  31. HCN says:

    Chuck, the varicella vaccine has nothing to do with measles.

  32. HCN says:

    (and to add, you cannot get shingles unless you have had chicken pox… if you get vaccinated for chicken pox and do not get it, you cannot get shingles — that is the theory, except the varicella vaccine has only available in the USA for 13 years — all of my kids are eligible to get shingles because they actually had chicken pox… and so am I, though there is a modified form of the vaccine to prevent shingles in older adults)

  33. Chuck says:

    “Chuck, the varicella vaccine has nothing to do with measles.”

    You took good notes in biology class. Measles is irrelevant to the question I asked. The insurance industry currently thinks the shingles vaccine is unimportant, so most do not receive it.

  34. HCN says:

    And that applies to the present measles outbreak how?

    Insurance companies do pay for $50 MMR vaccines. And so do the Public Health departments of most counties.

    Though I doubt lack of finances is why a ninth person has been diagnosed with measles in Grant County, WA (adding to the eight from one family there):
    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/health/361753_measles05.html

  35. Chuck says:

    You’re reading comprehension seems to be lacking today. I answered your first question in my previous post. I asked my question because the chicken pox vaccine had been previously discussed.

  36. HCN says:

    Yes, I am sleep deprived this morning, but I still don’t understand why you are going on about the varicella vaccine on a posting about an outbreak of measles.

    Tell me again what chicken pox, varicella vaccine and shingles has to do with the current rise in measles. Type very slowly so I can understand.

  37. Chuck says:

    I typed this as slow as I could

    Emily brought up chicken pox.

    My question was relevant to chicken pox and irrelevant to measles.

    Now have a nice nap.

  38. HCN says:

    Ah, I see, thank you. I actually missed that.

    (I had a wee nap in the orthodontist’s waiting room while daughter was getting braces tightened)

  39. Emily says:

    Chuck said, “Emily brought up the chicken pox.”

    Beg to differ. That would have been MJ up there at comment 30-something…http://www.autismvox.com/at-least-72-measles-cases-in-the-us/#comment-372750

    …who had some random observation to make about children and shingles, in which she quoted my observation about vaccines targeting childhood. Hence, my response.

  40. Chuck says:

    I stand corrected.

    MJ brought up the subject. Emily responded. My question still stands.

  41. HCN says:

    Any who… the cases in Grant County, WA continue to grow. The number has gone from 8 to 12:
    http://www.kxly.com/Global/story.asp?S=8275267

    “Health officials can’t confirm the source of the infection, but they can confirm all 12 people weren’t vaccinated.

    ..The Grant County Health District has posted signs at the schools that are part of the measles outbreak outlining an executive health order that demands anyone who is not yet vaccinated to stay home. Moses Lake Christian Academy reports that 17 students won’t be allowed back to school until the end of the month. “

  42. Now it’s 127 people in 15 states, as of the July 9th Reuters. Most of those infected were not vaccinated.

  43. Maybe more people would have there childern vaccinated if the were a little better odds then a 1 in 150 that you child would not get autism. So when is CDC going to say that it is not due to vaccines and may be caused that there are other causes like what you eat or drink. Go to your water co and find out what is in your water. From pesticides to to the amount of FLUORIDe[LEAD and ARSENIC] in the water.

  44. An after though if you do contact the water co. Be sure at what ppm do they add the FLUORIDE [ LEAD and ARSENIC] and how much that would be in dry pounds going into the and if they would how will be LEAD and how much is ARSENIC that you and your childern be drinking and eating as in instant mash potatoes or ricr where all the water used upand you will be eating the FLUORIDE[LEAD and ARSENIC].

  45. You may went to ask if you live in an area that has FLUORIDATED water before the vaccination.

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