Autism and Schizophrenia: The Same “Disease”?
November 15, 2008 by Kristina Chew, PhD
Filed under Health
New theory says autism and schizophrenia same disease, says today’s Chronicle-Herald about the new theory about autism and genetics. According to this latest theory (per last Tuesday’s New York Times), “an evolutionary tug of war between genes from the father’s sperm and the mother’s egg can, in effect, tip brain development in one of two ways.” But (keeping in mind that autism was once referred to as childhood schizophrenia) can—should— autism and schizophrenia be equated?
No. And this is barely an idea, much less a theory.
A rush to judgment going on here.
Now, where does the margarine fit into this theory?
It’s greasing the wheels.
First of all, one must remember that the word schizophrenia refers to A LOT of different things (such as paranoid subtype, disorganized, etc.).
Now, autism doesn’t look at all like paranoid schizophrenia (unless the individual has delusions as well, in which case they’d be classified with both), but there’s a subtype of schizophrenia (I believe disorganized), which is usually characterized by difficulty with self-care, unusual speech that is characterized as thought disorder (some individuals characterized as thought disordered say that they really were making illogical connections; others are merely having speech issues).
This link is useful for examples of what qualifies as “thought disorder”; due to difficulties with speech I have qualified for most of these criteria in my life:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_thought_disorder
Quote from wikipedia about disorganized schizophrenia:
“The emotional responses of people diagnosed with this subtype can often seem strange or inappropriate to the situation. Inappropriate facial responses may be common and behavior is sometimes described as ’silly’, such as inappropriate laughter. Complete lack of expressed emotion is sometimes seen, as is an apparent indifference, anhedonia (the lack of pleasure), and avolition (a lack of motivation). Some of these features are also present in other types of schizophrenia, but they are most prominent in Disorganized Schizophrenia.
This form of schizophrenia is typically associated with early onset (often between the ages of 15 and 25 years) and is thought to have a poor prognosis because of the rapid development of ‘negative’ symptoms and decline in social functioning.[5]”
What if some (or many) of the people diagnosed with this subtype of schizophrenia are either autistic people who would’ve been considered so high functioning as to be undiagnosable, but with life stresses their coping skills broke down and suddenlyit’s obvious they’re autistic? Some people reject the idea straight off because they see such a drastic change, but I mean, when you’ve been putting every ounce of your energy into pulling off “normal”(especially those who can do it well), then it only makes sense that you’re likely to crash and burn very, very hard. The thing that amazes me, is that more autistic people don’t experience such a drastic burnout from trying to pull off “normal”(though often, rather than losing self-help skills or speech, a person may become depressed).
Melody, good points. And I think they’re getting ready to break up schizophrenia into different entities…about time. It’s an interesting idea–notice that it ain’t a THEORY–that there could be a trigger for some latent emergence of autistic manifestations. What if the developmental timepoints don’t include only infancy (for some of us), 18 months to 2 years (for others), sometimes a bit later (for still others), AND puberty/early adulthood? These are all big transitional stages, and I think they’re still a pretty large black box that requires a great deal of rummaging around in before we have good answers.
Kristina, woman, you are a SHILL MAGNET. There should be some kind of virtual “Shill-Away” that you could use to keep the little buggers at bay.
@ Melody
My experience has been that the crash is quite common. So much so that I have a “special” name for it — I call it “PTBN Burnout,” where “PBTN” stands for “Pretending To Be Normal.” It certainly happened to me, and I’ve heard the same story countless times, mostly from late-diagnosed “Aspies.”
No wonder we can’t get everybody to stop saying “just a theory” if even scientists are calling untested and unverified ideas “theories”.
This is just plain silly. It assumes that autistics are emotionally withdrawn, as defined as the opposite of being hyper-aware of the moods of others. In my experience, autistics are painfully aware of the moods of others and the “withdrawal” is a down-regulating strategy in combination with a different communication approach.
This is an armchair theory proposed my people who have never taken the trouble to spend an afternoon with an autistic person (and probably not with a schizophrenic person either).
I’d expect better from a highschool student.
I don’t think so. This is ridiculous. I think this whole world is thinking impulsively.
Jason R. Read this and you’ll see why so many think impulsively, or as I have said… “irrationally”
This is “EXACTLY” what I have been talking about.
Autism and most behavioral disorders are connected and they have the exact same cause and I am living proof!
I ended a 43 yr old bipolar behavioral disorder by changing my diet alone!
I take no meds I see no doctors and I no longer suffer from any bipolar mania, sleepless nights, uncontrollable anger and rage etc.
It’s gone!
Not only did I ended many many years of behavioral problems, I discovered that cause of Autism, ADD, ADHD, Tourettes, Cancer and just about every psychological/mental disorder that Americans face today!
But there’s much more to this.
The affects are much more than just behavioral, there’s the physical and physiological and neurological affects that we muct contend with as well.
Please read my myspace page and see what I have been ranting about now for two+ years.
Um, the grandiosity is still present.
This seems no less ridiculous than the armies of people self diagnosing themselves as Aspergers telling the Internet he has the same condition as my son. Both are equally ridiculous.
Asperger Syndrome is something which has been around for generations prior and most people are recognizing only now.
No body should feel it is ridiculous for anything except the fact that aspergers and schizophrenia are one in the same. Aspergers is something which is a neurological condition where the person is very intelligent and has neurological aspects not being able to be controlled properly. The whole Autism Spectrum is like this.
Schizophernia is something totally different where the person is living their whole life with it because the mind degenerates.
this is people trying to go back to the theories from before 1970. This is ridiculous.
They are not one in the same. [edited by kc, per commenter's request] They are two different entities.
Yes, I think people can probably help themselves eventually without being on any medication. People are too dependent on medication these days.
Medication does help people sometimes.
My friend is going to be on NPR the end of the month in November. Listen to his Asperger Show.
they are not one in the same. I goofed up. I got overlyexcited sorry.
If autism and schizophrenia are on opposite sides of a spectrum, where do these children fit?:
http://ccp.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/13/1/81
It seems every month there is a new ‘unifying theory of autism’
There are armies of self-diagnosed Aspies? Are they planning a takeover of the world?
pD, is it possible that your son does not have “autism” but has some other entity that has been mistakenly identified for years as “autism”?
Probably not. But the point is, we can call it what we want, people can parse it however they please and use their own experiences to exclude others–and that goes both ways–but none of those falsely drawn lines reduces the real facts.
What’s ridiculous–only from a scientific perspective–is this parsing of who gets to be autistic and who doesn’t based on the perceived or real severity of how quality of life is affected. My son may have Aspergers and may not count as autistic in some people’s minds (because of his “normal” cognition, in spite of the fact that he has severe learning deficits in several areas), but he has a suite of signs and manifestations that are undoubtedly in the autism family, signs that have nothing to do with cognition. They include incessant flapping and vocalizing and other regulating behaviors, very loose joints (no one ever talks much about the connective tissue associations with autism), significant motor deficits, and an utter inability to read (or at least to translate enough to indicate an understanding of) other people’s emotions. He’s never self injured, although he has occasionally wished he were dead, and he rocks.
He is autistic, and he inherited his traits from both of his parents. Any trait not driven by a single gene is like to have differential individual expressitivity and variable penetrance in a population, and the gene(s) responsible for autism are no different. It is, I am personally convinced, at its core a sensory integration disorder of wide-ranging severity that also encompasses a syndrome of other signs that really have nothing to do with neural constructs.
I don’t mean to diminish other people’s issues, but they should also not diminish my son’s by comparison as not being “real” enough (pD, not that you’ve necessarily done that here, but it’s been done in a general sense often). In that same vein, not a single one of us is in a position to understand or comment on or complain about that “army” of self-diagnosed Aspies or whatever they are. Maybe they’re not deep into the continuum, but that doesn’t mean that they can’t finally feel that they have in their hands an explanation for why–for many of the enlisted–their lives have been such a misery of oddity, disconnection, and isolation. I know a many who’s a brilliant mathematician who can barely function in all of the other realms of his life, especially the social realms. Semi-appropriate cognitive function simply does not mean that any or every other function is OK, and it also does not mean that the dysfunction isn’t significant.
And what my son exhibits is very very different from any schizophrenic disorder. I think this epigenetic and paternal origin pursuit lacks anything useful at this point. For one thing, the brain development that gets “tipped” begins many many cells past the meeting of the sperm and egg at a time when the embryo is under complete embryonic control and is completely integrated genomically. And surely, with this kind of imprinting, we’d see other “maternal” signs and other “paternal” signs, considering the number of cells and cell types and genes and chromosomes involved. It’s not making a ton of sense to me from a systems level on down.
I know a “Many”? What is a “many”? I mean “a man.” I’d correct all the other typos, too, but they don’t detract from the meaning like that.
Dear Emily,
I “heart” you ; )
My son sounds just like yours. Cognitively a smart cookie but his challenges get in the way. He was daignosed in his tweens and it was suggested by the school that he was ADD, no wait ADHD, no wait schizphrenia????? I decided that since school personnel do not have medical degrees that I would actually have him diagnosed by a doctor! And voila, it is Aspergers. This explained the sensory sensitivities, the motor coordination (or lack of), the loose joints (yes we have that too), the social challenges, just to name a few.
The article disturbs me as it makes such a broad assumption on a very complicated spectrum. No autism and schizophrenia are not the same. But I suspect we will find that they are different branches on one tree.
They are all related–ADD, ADHD, likely autism, and schizophrenia (and Parkinsons and OCD and Tourettes)–because of derailments of dopamine signaling that they have in common. But as you and I, at least, have noted, there are other, non-neural signs, as well, with autism.
Thank you, Emily.
Hi Emily -
On the internet, most people that are Aspies are self diagnosed as near as I can figure. Perhaps this is just my non random experience. I doubt they’ll take over the world, but they do have the potential to sway opinions in ways I find very detrimental towards the pursuit of understanding autism, public awareness, and ultimately, helping children like my son.
What’s ridiculous–only from a scientific perspective–is this parsing of who gets to be autistic and who doesn’t based on the perceived or real severity of how quality of life is affected.
I disagree. If severity of symptoms is not used, how are we to determine autism from pdd from nervous speaking in public from got called a wierdo in kindergarden once? If we want to see research funded, or educational services provided, there must be some benchmark for determining how, and why, these limited resources are allocated. If having autism is simply sliding down the gradient of being a mathematician who can’t get a date, why bother performing check ups on every infant in the country? For that matter, why is the school system paying someone to spend one on one time with my son, when in fact, people just slightly different than him are called ‘little professors’? What playful euphemisms with such a positive upside is associated with children like my son?
I am particularly intrigued with your thoughts on tissue connectivity in autism. Do you have any references you would like to share on this? I would love to talk about it, but would like to read a bit more before I could do so intelligently.
I don’t mean to diminish other people’s issues, but they should also not diminish my son’s by comparison as not being “real” enough (pD, not that you’ve necessarily done that here, but it’s been done in a general sense often).
Well, I’m sure that in a general sense, I’ve been guity of this in the past. I do hope that it hasn’t offended you, or for that matter anyone, but the fact of the matter is that from what I have read, people with Aspergers are simply not put in group homes while teenagers, they do not suffer from mental retardation at rates approaching 20%, do not have observed rates of loss of skills, and do not have problems with general life skills like toileting, reading, or getting dressed. If these distinctions are not meaningful, why bother having a spectrum at all? If they are meaningful, what options do we have other than labels for making the distinctions clear?
If I thought for a single second my son’s future held in store a socially inept mathematician, I would cry with joy. Right now, we are working on understanding the concept of numbers at all; the notion that three is larger than two. Or for that matter, any abstract concept; blue versus orange, yesterday versus today, Halloween, Santa Clause, pretending anything, that the noises on the other end of the phone are a person.
Does it diminish one persons problems to say that in all likelyhood, someone capable of arguing eloquently on the internet is not as significantly disabled as one who does not understand any of those concepts? Can we honestly make no decision as to which one faces greater challenges?
I’m intrigued again by your thoughts on epigenetics, but alas, you have generally indicated in the past you prefer not to discuss such matters with people insufficiently equiped to enter the discussion.
- pD
re: tissue connectivity – we have that too – spent 6 months in PT trying to build up enough strength so the shoulders didn’t dislocate, and he can still put his legs behind his neck, and pull one arm behind him (elbow up) all the way to the other side. Nice if you are going for a job as a contortionist, otherwise less than helpful…
My personal belief is that many of these disorders are related in some way. ADD/ADHD and autism – both have executive function deficits and sensory overload/avoidance components. I think it stems from not being able to deal with/interpret/properly use the input from the senses – if some form of schizophrenia is also related to trying to avoid overwhelming sensory input, or make sense of input that isn’t being interpreted properly, I think it puts it in the same line. Not to say they are the same, but share at least some etiology.
But we do need to avoid jumping to conclusions on the basis of something just because it is published in the news.
(BTW, why is this not a theory? A theory is something that someone proposes as an explanation for something, and then sets out to prove/disprove – just because it is one person’s idea and not yours doesn’t make it any less of a theory.)
I have an autistic son and schizophrenic does not fit any of his behaviors. This puts my confidence in the medical community wrt autism right where it has always been. Sigh.
Hi Karin and Emily anyone else interested:
Fascinated, I did some poking around and did find a paper that studied autism and auto immune disorders involving connective tissue disorders.
Heat shock protein and gliadin peptide promote development of peptidase antibodies in children with autism and patients with autoimmune disease.
[not linking to avoid the spam filter]
Unsurprizingly (to me), auto immunity is implicated.
My son has been flapping like CRAZY the past few weeks to the point where his underarm has a blue spot the size of a half dollar from his hand smacking into it; it does occur to me that he is showing particular flexibility during this particular operation. The drive to continue flapping seems much powerful than the impulse not to continue hitting a bruise.
- pD
Here’s the link:
http://cvi.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/11/3/515
pD, anything that different that might be contributing to all the flapping?
An excellent discussion here, as always.
I smiled at Emily’s term SHILL MAGNET – a new one for me, yet offering me an opportunity to beat-up-on two of my favorite punching-bags.
First, the media. The NYT makes money via shock and irritation. They find isolated and sometimes obscure “science” and headline it to SHILL shock, whatever it takes to sell their supposed product, news. Associating the autism spectrum with an even worse spector has caused a response as, well, here we all are discussing it, eh?
Secondly, sensory integration. God bless Jean Ayres and rest her soul, she showed us the way to look at something differently. HOWEVER, her understanding of the central nervous system is now 40-YEARS-OLD.
Sensory integration dysfunction as a term or diagnosis is no more specific than the term ‘common cold’. My opinions on SI treatment are linked in a sidebar of my blog wherein I give many punches to a couple of people who continue to SHILL brushing forearms to modulate behavior.
The dysfunctional behaviors of persons with autism are undoubtedly neurologically-based with a suggestion of a genetic component. I think more intensive research into the brain function of persons on the spectrum would be more practically beneficial in the near term than the genetics studies.
pD, I know I have indicated that in the past, and it’s only because it would involve my searching for and tracking down and posting links, etc., and I really don’t have the time to do that. I have the time to come on here, post at top speed off the top of my head, and move on. Honestly, I do this while I work because I can’t focus for more than about 10 minutes at a time, and this helps reset my brain and reduce some of the background noise. I know that’s neither here nor there, but that’s the reason. I figure anybody who can post here can do the same searches and find the same links if they have the time and inclination.
For what it’s worth, my son also has a one-on-one aide all day at school. He’s not a “little professor” and probably never will be. I don’t personally find that euphemism all that playful because it’s really a civil observation on the inability of these children to interact with others more than anything else. At any rate, it’s not an apt descriptive for my son, whose official dx is Aspergers. Really…considering the original group that led to that phrase, I wouldn’t place too much faith in it as representative.
He has significant problems with toileting, getting dressed, and other self-care issues. He’s seven, and still can’t remember his pants after using the bathroom, or in which order to put on clothes, or how to put them on. He cannot button or zip. So, in our case, the distinctions that are made are not meaningful. They don’t change anything about who our son is or what his needs are. In the artificial construct that we, as humans, have applied to this (as we do everything), he’s probably just as classically autistic as he is “Aspie.” In fact, about 20% of him IS mentally retarded, based on IQ scores for those areas. He has no concept of time whatsoever–not time of day, part of the day, what day, what month, any of it.
As for the mathematician guy…his problem isn’t reducible to “can’t get a date.” I wouldn’t have brought it up were that the case. It’s much more severe than that. Yes, he obviously can do math. But that’s almost all he can do, and he’s helplessly aware in some ways of his issues but unable to discern them in others, and that leaves him unmoored in his 50s, living alone with his numbers, talking to himself, being dysregulated, exhibiting behaviors we would likely all recognize, right on down to significant social naivety. If I were his parent, I would not be crying with joy about him, and that’s not because of who he is, but because of his unhappiness. Happiness is the bottom line, and it has a completely different interpretation and context for every one of us. But his ability to talk or engage with numbers doesn’t preclude his being profoundly affected by his autism.
Interesting what you say about autoimmunity, and I’ve always been intrigued about autism and autoimmunity…but it would have to have been in utero for our son. He came out with these motor issues and with that connective tissue flexibility. I’ve never looked into the literature on the connective tissue at all…it’s just something I’ve repeatedly seen in the many kids with autism I’ve encountered.
Regarding the question about a theory–in science, a theory is much much more than you describe. It is something that has been poked and prodded and tested six different ways from Sunday and has withstood every test to remain standing through them all. It usually takes years…sometimes decades, sometimes centuries…for a scientific idea to grow up to become a theory. On the way, it becomes a hypothesis, where the testing begins. Whenever I see something purportedly scientific, I strongly feel that the word “theory” should not be used casually in that context.
When I say “sensory integration,” I do not mean it in the context of SID, which I find “fluffy,” at best. I mean really, trouble integrating inputs from the senses. We call it that in our family because that’s what it is for us. We get overwhelmed, and we cannot tease out what’s important from what’s not, and everything is a big noisy mess of inputs.
I agree with “fluffy”, Emily, as a good descriptor for the ‘research’ supporting the techniques used under the moniker of SID. Your descriptors are ’solid’ for SID, to which there are many potential means to address the problemmatic behaviors and choose what works for you. Thank you.
Yep long ago terms were infantile autism and childhood schizophrenia.
My kids have autism, their father is paranoid schizo, not at all the same. That lady in Texas who drowned her kids suffered from Paranoid Schizo and was on Haldol, my ex was on that and it was a frightening drug. He is back on Risperdal, never on it the same time Matt was.
Andrea Yates actually had postpartum psychosis, the most severe form of postpartum depression. It is treated with anti-psychotic medication and anti-depressant medication.
Pd- “but the fact of the matter is that from what I have read, people with Aspergers are simply not put in group homes while teenagers, they do not suffer from mental retardation at rates approaching 20%, do not have observed rates of loss of skills, and do not have problems with general life skills like toileting, reading, or getting dressed.”
I feel for you, I know you need to advocate for your child BUT Umm, umm. No, no, no. Yes they can certainly regress, and many do until they begin receiving educational supports. Socially, communicatively, daily living skills, Sensory, as well as their mental health. I think that is a big misconception, and it can divide the ASD/AS community. For example, they may phisically be able to do it (life skills), but left alone, they lack the ability to organize thoughts to then be able to execute those abilities (Lack of Executive Function). So, therefore the need for specialized therapies. Also, people with AS can have an extesive vocabulary, and can even spend an hour with you speaking about something that is of interest. However, don’t mistake that for “typical”. Many have significant communication and pragmatic skills deficits. Even those who try so hard to be “normal” and fit in, Social skills, noverbal ques, and maintaining relationships, all go out the door. Many end up DEPRESSED. Many have severe anxiety, and atypical sensory input/output. When an adult has self-diagnosed, they have looked at all of those issues, but they have also already overcome, and found ways to cope with their deficits, which is possible.
The reason why we don’t see a large polpulation of AS people in group homes may be because, technically, because of their high cognitive ability, they don’t qualify, nor would they want to. In fact, I have read over and over about parents being denied educational and social services due to their childs cognitive ability. Many, many, many seem to not see the distinction between Cognition and Development. However, I have also read somewhere on the net that many Apergers people (something like 80%) who do not or did not receive appropriate supports and services do end up in institutions. Those however are called JAILS and HOMELESS SHELTERS.
So please, please, please. Just because your situation may be different, remember that although a child with Aspergers may seem more capable than a child with PDD or Autism, they may well be, statistically they will not reach their full potential, unless they receive those supports and services. And shall they indeed need GROUP HOMES (AKA JAILS or HOMELESS SHELTERS) those will not be nurturing or educational.
Emily and Melody, you can critique me if you think I missed something / was incorrect – your posts are right on the money. I also wondered if connective tissue issues are related as both my guys have them, in fact we are trying to rule out Marfans, because of it.
Saying one is indicative of the other…is like saying spoons make people fat.
There’s a tragic side to the conflation of autism and schizophrenia: people on the autism spectrum misdiagnosed “schizophrenic” — sometimes on the basis of only the “negative” symptoms of the latter (for example, flat affect) without the “positive” symptoms (for example, delusional thinking), sometimes on misinterpretation regarding the “positive” symptoms — and medically mistreated as a result.
I wrote about that in a footnote to the paper I contributed to “Autism and Representation”, a conference on the representation of autism in film, literature, social science, and popular culture held at Case Western Reserve University in 2005:
“At Autreat 1999, I attended a workshop on autistic forms of humor. The four people closest to me in the room were all survivors of the inpatient mental health system – all of them autistic women who had been misdiagnosed with schizophrenia or other psychoses, mismedicated (in several cases almost with fatal results), and mistreated with “disciplinary” measures while locked up. The fact that they could all be in that room, participating in a workshop on humor, says something important about the resiliency of the human spirit.”
With regard to the tissue connectivity….
I addressed this on my myspace page!
It’s all about the fever that is a result of the allergic reaction our bodies have to the artificial food additives.
We all know (maybe?) that when we have a fever we feel stiff and achy.
That stiff and achy part is what eventually develops into the osteo arthritic problems that most people have when they reach adulthood.
The fever causes the achy stiffness which in turn reduces the lubricating fluids in the joints which possibly could explain part of the flapping and such.
As for self diagnosis, that is what I did.
I am one of those self-diagnosed Aspies..
I also self-diagnosed my bipolar/manic disorder which has been confirmed by a competant psychologist.
Soon, I will have my aspergers professionally diagnosed as well.
Growing up, I had all the same problems your children have today, only in the 1960s the diagnoses, or evaluations were not up to par.
Instead of ADD, or ADHD, or even Autism people, like me, were evaluated with a sociopathic, or an antisocial disorder.
For over 100 years, that I know of…. Americans have been misdiagnosed, or misevaluated with a variety of psychoses, or mental problems, but instead of treating them, many were left on the wayside and others were jailed, institutionalized, or worse, lobotomized and so on. (Just how many went over the cookoos nest?)
Back then your children would have been locked up as crazies.
I will never say I told you so.
But when the truth comes to light about the affects of these petroleum and wood based coal tar food additives (color, flavor and preservatives) You just might believe what sort of intelligence this aspergers thing has given me.
I know that I am 100% correct about this.
I am too smart to be wrong and I have spent much of the past two years studying everything I can find about these toxic food additives.
If you doubt me, Accept the challenge in the blogs of my myspace page.
Avoid all artificial food additives for one month and see how it makes you feel.
You will see and you will be 100% convinced like I am.
I discovered the cause of Autism, Aspergers, Cancer (most) and so much more.
And there’s so much more to this than you will ever believe.
Ban the artificial food additives and all of America will wake up and will change.
If you doubt me?
Prove me wrong!
Please, prove me wrong.
Emily?
Kristina you are still highly magnetized.
Jarma, good for you – finding what works for you. Just doesn’t work that way. You will have to prove your own beliefs, and betcha cannot find anyone to fund your proposal.
I’m certain, based on my knowledge of human physiology, that joint hyper-mobility and greater-than-typical-extensibility of connective tissue is genetically-based – just like the underlying beginnings of the neural differences in the brains of persons on the spectrum.
As important as diet is to ALL health and function, food is not the place I would start for increasing the understanding of this phenomenon in persons on the spectrum.
I’m not a researcher (at this time). Think of me more as a protector from SHILL sold as research.
Barbara, my bet would be on one of the many collagen genes, a la Ehlers-Danlos.
Can’t be what Jorma describes for any number of scientific reasons, but in our case, also an anecdotal one–he came out that way. Wasn’t exposed to a single “artificial food additive” for at least the first 18 months of his life and has been “exposed” only very sparingly since. He has no joint pain, no inflammation.
Food is unquestionably not the place for us to look.
Barbara, one thing you find on here is also a great deal of classic perseveration. For some people, it’s the “broad autism phenotype.” For others, it’s different hypotheses (I use the term loosely) about the etiology (mine is dopamine, and I probably do perseverate on it, but at least there’s a bit o’ training behind that).
Another of mine is pseudoscience, and I’ll be taking that example up there and using it for my science classes next semester as part of our discussion. It fulfills quite a few criteria quite clearly.
Ahh, thank you, Emily. I drop-in about weekly – have to manage my blog habit – er – habit my some mechanism – er – schedule.
Anyway, perseveration works for me conceptually. I will be more mindful in the future.
Thanks for sponsoring this exchange, Kristina. You manage a very helpful forum.
Emily, I am hearing what you say with great interest. BTW, the concept of time will come, stick with it. Bug, who’s not a little professor, either, didn’t get it until he was in 7th grade – but he Got It.
Let me add something: How many of you who entirely disagree with any or all of this have children who are over the age of 15?
You don’t know what you don’t know, I guess, is what I’m getting at. Autism Changes. A child with certain traits at a young age, that you think is a certain way, and would never do (whatever), is the total opposite when he reaches teenhood….
I have seen many older autistic teens with schizophrenic traits. HOWEVER – it does not mean that they are full-fledged schizophrenics. Basically you could say it is like ADD or ADHD in kids with AS – it’s attention issues, but not manifested the same as a person with ADD/ADHD only, because it’s a co-morbidity of the autism.
I also do not count what Jorma says out. Food additives DO hurt people. I firmly believe that aspartame caused my breast cancer. It also gave me arthritis, and three weeks after I stopped drinking diet soda, it went Totally away.
MSG gives us all headaches. Chicken nuggets and the like are loaded with it. If any of your kids are eating the deadly “chicken nuggets” or other breaded pre-packaged junk, try giving just that up for a month. Bug’s headaches went away, and so did his teenage zits!
Giving up M&Ms, though…..(lol heavy sigh)
Read my page, the facts speak for themselves.
I didn’t post that stuff to do anything but help others.
The key to who is and isn’t affected is the study from hacsg.org
In 1987 they tested 357 school age kids, out of those 357 kids, 87% had an adverse behavioral reaction to food dyes.
This suggests that 87% of our society which happens to be around 244 million Americans as being equally affected as those children.
So technically I am NOT the only one who can benefit from my suggestions of avoiding all artificial food additives.
Alot of my comments and speculations come from my own experiences and what I found since I stopped consuming is the level of immediate affects, right after consuming things like margarine or any other artificial colors, flavors etc.
Margarine, which has no studies, no research, no clues that it’s as bad as it is.
You do not realize how bad it is because you don’t notice anything wrong because the artificial colors which are the most widely used additive of all has a subtle affect and it helps to block the more severe reaction to the artificial flavor used in margarine.
I do agree that the vaccines that are administered are very bad, but the vaccine shouldn’t cause something to permanant as life long autism.
It eventually should be purged from your body over time.
The artificial food additives that we consume every day are what maintains the autism.
Take the vaccine and avoid the artificials and you should be fine.
Take the vaccine and continue consuming much of the same type of toxins in the vaccines and you keep the cycle of events that keep a person in a autistic state. Period.
The artificial additives contain lead and many of the same ingredients as the vaccines.
As for funding research(Barbara), I don’t need that, I have already proven that my challenge will work for everyone who dares to try.
Additionally with regard to……… “Wasn’t exposed to a single “artificial food additive” for at least the first 18 months of his life and has been “exposed” only very sparingly since.”
Almost all childrens vitamins, childrens tylenol and just about all medications contain those dyes.
I had to take vicodin for my lower back surgery and I got migraines from taking vicodin, I searched for the ingredients and the white pills like the vicodin contain a blue dye.
If you can remember the old addage used in some laundry commercials “with added blueing for extra whitening” this is what drives the same theory of making pills look whiter.
The first 18 months is probably the worst because the immune system hasnt really been built up to par yet.
Another study from the South Hampton University in the UK concluded that 100% of people who consume the artificials are affected.
Food is the first place to look!
It’s literally what we all have in common.
and I mean everyone.
See red40.com
My 8 yr old daughter has High Functioning Autism and after the ADOS her psychiatrist wants to diagnose childhood schizophrenia aswell!!!! Waiting for full report from psychs.
You should probably see a different psychiatrist. Though, having an ASD does not mean the person with ASD can’t have a psychosis like NT’s can. It is rare, but it can happen too.
ASD is different than psychosis. A doctor who needs to be educated like anybody else is. Being educated on ASD is important. Some doctors are not humble enough to learn. These are doctors that wind up going nowhere. I was always taught to be humble and willing to learn.
i think people should stop relating to everything as a desease, or diagnosing everyone with everything.
for anyone, regardless if diagnosed or not, it is important to learn to live a good life. for some it is easier, for some its harder. for some it is impossible.
a reasonable diet is a good start.
and the ways that teach you living a good life are found in coulture, family and maybe traditions or religions.
people should care less about the “lable” of a diagnose they can put on themselves or others, but care more about their most personal life.
Actually, I am quite happy with my daughters “label” of Autism! It is so much better than “that naughty, aggressive, destructive, evil, little child”, which was the label she had before being diagnosed with autism. People are much more understanding of her now (or at least try to be). Before, she would be chased down the street by other parents, we had eggs thrown at our windows, the head cut off her favourite sunflower, our garden plants set fire to, etc, etc, all because of local people’s reaction to my daughter’s behaviour. We were moved away and when I explained to my new neighbours that my daughter was autistic, they were fantastic, they still are fantastic a year later and they love my daughter to pieces. They are very good with her and if she does behave badly in front of them, they are ok with it and are supportive. There is a lot to be said in favour of “labels”, actually knowing and understanding why your child behaves like they do is much better than just ignoring and undiagnosing.
And most parents of children with autism will know how difficult it can be to get their child to eat anything! My daughter has refused to eat anything new for 6 years, she is slightly underweight but very active and sporty, unlike so many young kids these days.
Suggestions like ‘change her diet’ or ‘get prayer for healing’, although possibly helpful, are none the less insulting.
@Yve,
what wonderful neighbors—I mean the ones you have now! If I may ask, how long did it take before your daughter was properly diagnosed? My son goes in phases about what he likes to eat, though we try to keep it fairly varied—he eats a lot as he has entered adolescence and is really growing. Sometimes the things he dislikes the most at first become his favorites.
Your last sentence rings very true. While I know people mean well when they tell me my son is a “blessing,” there’s a bit more that can be said and done. very best—-
Hi. My daughter was diagnosed with asperger’s syndrome 2 years ago. It was then changed to high functioning autism with additional complex needs. After the full ADOS assessments, which we have only recently finished, the diagnosis of HFA is still right but the ‘experts’ think she may have childhood schizophrenia aswell!! I am still waiting for their full report.
As usual, I missed a discussion I was perfect for! My own fault for being insanely busy.
I suppose I fit into the category of army of self-diagnosed Aspies, being self-diagnosed by choice. My suspicions waver between being near-but-not-on the spectrum to mild Asperger’s, and every shade between the two. Strangely, the government isn’t fond of those with a diagnosis on the spectrum working in embassies and consulates, so I remain pseudonymmed and unofficially diagnosed. I figure if I made it this far and can mostly function, I’ve learned enough coping skills to pass for normal when need be and that’ll be fine.
Interestingly, I do carry a hypermobility diagnosis.
As to the concept of adult-onset autism, I personally would be interested in research on this. I’ve noted before that while I’ve always had many of the issues that I do now (social/emotional/sensory issues, especially–there’s a synesthesia diagnosis, too), I’ve felt they have gotten worse in the past couple of years. This coincides with some major life changes for me, as well as dysthemia.
Glad you joined the discussion now—–that notion of “adult-onset autism” is really interesting. Would you say it’s different from learning that one has a diagnosis, while in one’s adulthood?