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	<title>Comments on: Autism and Schizophrenia</title>
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	<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/autism-and-schizophrenia/</link>
	<description>Family, Health, Home and Lifestyles</description>
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		<title>By: &#8220;Common Origin&#8221; for Autism and Schizophrenia?</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/autism-and-schizophrenia/comment-page-1/#comment-559755</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8220;Common Origin&#8221; for Autism and Schizophrenia?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/autism-and-schizophrenia/#comment-559755</guid>
		<description>[...] spectrum disorder,&#8221; autism was &#8220;childhood schizophrenia.&#8221; Now bring up autism and schizophrenia in the same conversation and you&#8217;ll get a heated response. Back in February, Dr. Nancy Minshew, Director of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] spectrum disorder,&#8221; autism was &#8220;childhood schizophrenia.&#8221; Now bring up autism and schizophrenia in the same conversation and you&#8217;ll get a heated response. Back in February, Dr. Nancy Minshew, Director of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Autism and Schizophrenia: The Same &#8220;Disease&#8221;?</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/autism-and-schizophrenia/comment-page-1/#comment-562145</link>
		<dc:creator>Autism and Schizophrenia: The Same &#8220;Disease&#8221;?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/autism-and-schizophrenia/#comment-562145</guid>
		<description>[...] in mind that autism was once referred to as childhood schizophrenia) can&#8212;should&#8212; autism and schizophrenia be [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in mind that autism was once referred to as childhood schizophrenia) can&#8212;should&#8212; autism and schizophrenia be [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Autism and Parents with Psychiatric Disorders</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/autism-and-schizophrenia/comment-page-1/#comment-555974</link>
		<dc:creator>Autism and Parents with Psychiatric Disorders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 12:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/autism-and-schizophrenia/#comment-555974</guid>
		<description>[...] autism was called childhood schizophrenia. Tags: asd, asperger, autism, autism blog, insanity, mental health blog, mental illness, mother, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] autism was called childhood schizophrenia. Tags: asd, asperger, autism, autism blog, insanity, mental health blog, mental illness, mother, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Regan</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/autism-and-schizophrenia/comment-page-1/#comment-554354</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 23:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/autism-and-schizophrenia/#comment-554354</guid>
		<description>Just a history piece that is not relevant to perhaps current DSM, but might relate to the distinction of schizophrenia and autism, and the difficulties therein, and why someone might say that some autistic children were labelled as schizophrenic. I also have a comment on some administrative category and public count changes using IDEA data (also see Laidler, 2005) that seem to have relevance to these discussions.

DeMyer, M.K., Churchill, D.W., Pontius, W., Gilkey, K.M. (1971). A comparison of five diagnostic systems for childhood schizophrenia and infantile autism. Journal of Autism and Childhood Schizophrenia, 1, 175-189.
http://www.neurodiversity.com/library_demyer_1971.pdf

(BTW--thanks to and courtesy of Neurodiversity.com!)

The short version is that just scanning the criteria among the 5 different instruments, depending on which was used, Eleanor, if diagnosed at that time, could have easily diagnosed with BOTH childhood schizophrenia and infantile autism, and there was some variability even across instruments assessing for the same diagnosis. There is also the distinct possibility that the primary diagnosis for her could have been mental retardation.

This is interesting to me historically and because it does illustrate some issues with comparing past to present when the criteria differ, the instruments change and there is also observer/assessor differences. Reading some of the old literature on autism associated with congenital rubella, there were differences of assessment there, with some identifying autism, some autistic features and some mental retardation.

Prior to Public Law 94-142 (Education of All Handicapped Children Act) (1975), now colloquially known when referring to IDEA, or FAPE. At that time, while some districts did admit special needs students, many also did not and they were not obligated to teach such students in the normal public system, or in some cases at all. Hence large placements in private or state-sponsored special schools or institutions (ex: Willowbrook, Fernald School, many more). 

Prior to the introduction of the traumatic brain injury (TBI) and autism categories in 1990, IDEA served students with TBI and autism, but they were reported in a different disability service category, i.e, mental retardation, hearing impairments including deafness, speech or language impairments, visual impairments including blindness, emotional disturbance, orthopedic impairments, other health impairments, multiple disabilities, deaf-blindness, and specific learning disabilities.

In 1997 Developmental Delay was added as an optional category for children ages 6-9. 

The 2000-2001 school year was the first that disability was collected for children ages 3-5.

IDEA Part B Data Fact Sheet-October 2006
http://www.ideadata.org/docs/bfactsheetcc.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a history piece that is not relevant to perhaps current DSM, but might relate to the distinction of schizophrenia and autism, and the difficulties therein, and why someone might say that some autistic children were labelled as schizophrenic. I also have a comment on some administrative category and public count changes using IDEA data (also see Laidler, 2005) that seem to have relevance to these discussions.</p>
<p>DeMyer, M.K., Churchill, D.W., Pontius, W., Gilkey, K.M. (1971). A comparison of five diagnostic systems for childhood schizophrenia and infantile autism. Journal of Autism and Childhood Schizophrenia, 1, 175-189.<br />
<a href="http://www.neurodiversity.com/library_demyer_1971.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.neurodiversity.com/library_demyer_1971.pdf</a></p>
<p>(BTW&#8211;thanks to and courtesy of Neurodiversity.com!)</p>
<p>The short version is that just scanning the criteria among the 5 different instruments, depending on which was used, Eleanor, if diagnosed at that time, could have easily diagnosed with BOTH childhood schizophrenia and infantile autism, and there was some variability even across instruments assessing for the same diagnosis. There is also the distinct possibility that the primary diagnosis for her could have been mental retardation.</p>
<p>This is interesting to me historically and because it does illustrate some issues with comparing past to present when the criteria differ, the instruments change and there is also observer/assessor differences. Reading some of the old literature on autism associated with congenital rubella, there were differences of assessment there, with some identifying autism, some autistic features and some mental retardation.</p>
<p>Prior to Public Law 94-142 (Education of All Handicapped Children Act) (1975), now colloquially known when referring to IDEA, or FAPE. At that time, while some districts did admit special needs students, many also did not and they were not obligated to teach such students in the normal public system, or in some cases at all. Hence large placements in private or state-sponsored special schools or institutions (ex: Willowbrook, Fernald School, many more). </p>
<p>Prior to the introduction of the traumatic brain injury (TBI) and autism categories in 1990, IDEA served students with TBI and autism, but they were reported in a different disability service category, i.e, mental retardation, hearing impairments including deafness, speech or language impairments, visual impairments including blindness, emotional disturbance, orthopedic impairments, other health impairments, multiple disabilities, deaf-blindness, and specific learning disabilities.</p>
<p>In 1997 Developmental Delay was added as an optional category for children ages 6-9. </p>
<p>The 2000-2001 school year was the first that disability was collected for children ages 3-5.</p>
<p>IDEA Part B Data Fact Sheet-October 2006<br />
<a href="http://www.ideadata.org/docs/bfactsheetcc.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ideadata.org/docs/bfactsheetcc.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Regina</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/autism-and-schizophrenia/comment-page-1/#comment-547244</link>
		<dc:creator>Regina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 03:45:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/autism-and-schizophrenia/#comment-547244</guid>
		<description>gfcfmom...I will check that book out and read it..sounds interesting...years before autism affected our lives I was concerned about the large number of vaccinations given to children at such a young age! It would not be the first (or will it be the last) time that the government covered something and/or caused something to happen in the name of research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gfcfmom&#8230;I will check that book out and read it..sounds interesting&#8230;years before autism affected our lives I was concerned about the large number of vaccinations given to children at such a young age! It would not be the first (or will it be the last) time that the government covered something and/or caused something to happen in the name of research.</p>
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		<title>By: About the Love Hormone and About Love</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/autism-and-schizophrenia/comment-page-1/#comment-548911</link>
		<dc:creator>About the Love Hormone and About Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/autism-and-schizophrenia/#comment-548911</guid>
		<description>[...] adds that people with schizophrenia or autism often avoid eye-to-eye gaze, focus on less relavent areas of the face, and avoid meaningful social [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] adds that people with schizophrenia or autism often avoid eye-to-eye gaze, focus on less relavent areas of the face, and avoid meaningful social [...]</p>
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		<title>By: This and Last&#8217;s Weeks Top Posts</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/autism-and-schizophrenia/comment-page-1/#comment-551825</link>
		<dc:creator>This and Last&#8217;s Weeks Top Posts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 06:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/autism-and-schizophrenia/#comment-551825</guid>
		<description>[...] Autism and SchizophreniaIn the past, autistic individuals might have received a diagnosis of schizophrenia (or mental retardation, or something else); they could not be diagnosed with autism because autism as we understand it today did not exist as a diagnostic category. That is, for much of the history of autism—if we posit that autism has always existed and was only very recently identified as such—-autistic persons did not have an “autism diagnosis,” but were considered “something else.”  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Autism and SchizophreniaIn the past, autistic individuals might have received a diagnosis of schizophrenia (or mental retardation, or something else); they could not be diagnosed with autism because autism as we understand it today did not exist as a diagnostic category. That is, for much of the history of autism—if we posit that autism has always existed and was only very recently identified as such—-autistic persons did not have an “autism diagnosis,” but were considered “something else.”  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: isles</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/autism-and-schizophrenia/comment-page-1/#comment-541085</link>
		<dc:creator>isles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 06:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/autism-and-schizophrenia/#comment-541085</guid>
		<description>RAJ wrote:

&quot;In those autopsies which have examined the ‘autistic’ brain microscopically 100% of them have found structural abnormalities. In many cases the damage is microscopic but can not be seen using imaging tools such as MRI.&quot;

Were any non-autistic brains examined in a similar manner?  (This might sound snarky but I don&#039;t mean it that way.)  I think that a lot - if not all - people&#039;s brains would show some kind of small irregularity if examined microscopically.

And sheesh, gfcfmom, the only remarkable thing about &quot;Evidence of Harm&quot; is that David Kirby doesn&#039;t seem to have grown an extra four inches of nose while writing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RAJ wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;In those autopsies which have examined the ‘autistic’ brain microscopically 100% of them have found structural abnormalities. In many cases the damage is microscopic but can not be seen using imaging tools such as MRI.&#8221;</p>
<p>Were any non-autistic brains examined in a similar manner?  (This might sound snarky but I don&#8217;t mean it that way.)  I think that a lot &#8211; if not all &#8211; people&#8217;s brains would show some kind of small irregularity if examined microscopically.</p>
<p>And sheesh, gfcfmom, the only remarkable thing about &#8220;Evidence of Harm&#8221; is that David Kirby doesn&#8217;t seem to have grown an extra four inches of nose while writing it.</p>
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		<title>By: gfcfmom</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/autism-and-schizophrenia/comment-page-1/#comment-545389</link>
		<dc:creator>gfcfmom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 05:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/autism-and-schizophrenia/#comment-545389</guid>
		<description>Have you read &quot;Evidence of Harm&quot;? It is a fascinating account of the PROOF that vaccines cause autism and this is constantly covered up by the government because they don&#039;t want the public to become afraid of vaccines. It is a such an unbelievable mess I don&#039;t know where to begin. Read the book and then get back to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you read &#8220;Evidence of Harm&#8221;? It is a fascinating account of the PROOF that vaccines cause autism and this is constantly covered up by the government because they don&#8217;t want the public to become afraid of vaccines. It is a such an unbelievable mess I don&#8217;t know where to begin. Read the book and then get back to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristina Chew, PhD</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/autism-and-schizophrenia/comment-page-1/#comment-547674</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristina Chew, PhD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 19:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/autism-and-schizophrenia/#comment-547674</guid>
		<description>@Anne C and TomsMom,

I&#039;m always hopeful that societal mores can be changed or evolve and that we can learn to better understand how everyone is liable to misinterpret what might seem like &quot;anti-social&quot; behavior. It&#039;s difficult for Charlie not to be constantly humming, vocalizing, saying what sound like non-verbal &quot;noises.&quot; I&#039;ve learned he needs to do some of these to help stay focused and to self-calm, and I&#039;ve also noted that he needs to learn to be silent at certain times, for instance if he were at a job some day, where a little humming might be all right---a little, though, not a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Anne C and TomsMom,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m always hopeful that societal mores can be changed or evolve and that we can learn to better understand how everyone is liable to misinterpret what might seem like &#8220;anti-social&#8221; behavior. It&#8217;s difficult for Charlie not to be constantly humming, vocalizing, saying what sound like non-verbal &#8220;noises.&#8221; I&#8217;ve learned he needs to do some of these to help stay focused and to self-calm, and I&#8217;ve also noted that he needs to learn to be silent at certain times, for instance if he were at a job some day, where a little humming might be all right&#8212;a little, though, not a lot.</p>
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