Comments on: Birdsong and Vocal Learning: Not Just for the Birds http://www.blisstree.com/articles/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/ Family, Health, Home and Lifestyles Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:09:05 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Kristina Chew, PhD http://www.blisstree.com/articles/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/comment-page-1/#comment-550646 Kristina Chew, PhD Tue, 18 Mar 2008 01:50:29 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/#comment-550646 Very interesting---just wondering: Do they look closely at the therapists' mouths and lips when they are imitating words? Perhaps they are imitating the sounds more than the movements? Very interesting—just wondering: Do they look closely at the therapists’ mouths and lips when they are imitating words? Perhaps they are imitating the sounds more than the movements?

]]> By: MomtoJBG http://www.blisstree.com/articles/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/comment-page-1/#comment-553614 MomtoJBG Tue, 18 Mar 2008 01:41:48 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/#comment-553614 My sons have an easier time imitating speech (individual words) than imitating gross motor moves. I don't understand it, and it has the ABA therapists flummoxed. They can both say multi-syllable words, but can not imitate stomping feet, waving, clapping, touching a body part, etc. I don't understand this, but I think it'll sort itself out with time. My sons have an easier time imitating speech (individual words) than imitating gross motor moves. I don’t understand it, and it has the ABA therapists flummoxed. They can both say multi-syllable words, but can not imitate stomping feet, waving, clapping, touching a body part, etc.
I don’t understand this, but I think it’ll sort itself out with time.

]]> By: Kristina Chew, PhD http://www.blisstree.com/articles/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/comment-page-1/#comment-550597 Kristina Chew, PhD Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:52:16 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/#comment-550597 Something about signing and getting more of the body involved---Charlie had to learn to imitate in order to talk and when he was younger, he had limited ability to imitate oral motor movements. First he learned to imitate with gross motors moves (waving, touching his head, etc.)----as he has learned to talk more, his ability to imitate has increased (plus he now imitates sounds and actions spontaneously; he did not before). Something about signing and getting more of the body involved—Charlie had to learn to imitate in order to talk and when he was younger, he had limited ability to imitate oral motor movements. First he learned to imitate with gross motors moves (waving, touching his head, etc.)—-as he has learned to talk more, his ability to imitate has increased (plus he now imitates sounds and actions spontaneously; he did not before).

]]> By: Translating Autism http://www.blisstree.com/articles/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/comment-page-1/#comment-548835 Translating Autism Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:04:48 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/#comment-548835 Hi Regan, It makes sense that the Total Communication would work, especially for children with speech delays. I'm not familiar enough with the research, but I recall some early research with typically developing children who experienced a delay in speech production after learning to communicate well via sign language. But I'm sure the research is much more specific than I characterized, with SL likely being effective in specific situations and a possible detriment if not used correctly in other situations. I'm sure a good speech pathologist would be invaluable in helping design the method that best works for each child. Congrats that it worked well for Eleanor. I could not imagine the feeling you got after hearing her voice. Cheers, Nestor. Hi Regan, It makes sense that the Total Communication would work, especially for children with speech delays. I’m not familiar enough with the research, but I recall some early research with typically developing children who experienced a delay in speech production after learning to communicate well via sign language. But I’m sure the research is much more specific than I characterized, with SL likely being effective in specific situations and a possible detriment if not used correctly in other situations. I’m sure a good speech pathologist would be invaluable in helping design the method that best works for each child. Congrats that it worked well for Eleanor. I could not imagine the feeling you got after hearing her voice. Cheers, Nestor.

]]> By: Regan http://www.blisstree.com/articles/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/comment-page-1/#comment-541528 Regan Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:53:42 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/#comment-541528 Sorry for the sloppy grammar and spelling. Time for coffee. Sorry for the sloppy grammar and spelling. Time for coffee.

]]> By: Regan http://www.blisstree.com/articles/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/comment-page-1/#comment-540717 Regan Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:32:30 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/#comment-540717 Nestor, But about the work in Total Communication (sign+speech) for those with speech delays--much of the research I have shows that it has a facilitating effect on speech development? This is just a comment, not a criticism, but one of the first things that I was taught in using sign as AAC is one has to be care of overgeneralizable signs such as "more" and to focus on distinct signs for separate high preference items. The caveat would also apply in initial speech training. We initially used a PECS system with Eleanor for the communicative function (which was a very powerful thing for her, since both speech and language are her greatest difficulties), but it took YEARS of daily intensive language training and several modifications of approach on that to obtain speech. A large portion her program was motor fluency practice because she had significant motor dysfluencies (one of the reasons sign or modified sign was not our first choice). It's anecdotal but based on observation, I believe that the motor practice was a positive contributor. In any event, hearing her voice was a genuine joy, and she seems to be pleased as well. Nestor,
But about the work in Total Communication (sign+speech) for those with speech delays–much of the research I have shows that it has a facilitating effect on speech development?

This is just a comment, not a criticism, but one of the first things that I was taught in using sign as AAC is one has to be care of overgeneralizable signs such as “more” and to focus on distinct signs for separate high preference items. The caveat would also apply in initial speech training.

We initially used a PECS system with Eleanor for the communicative function (which was a very powerful thing for her, since both speech and language are her greatest difficulties), but it took YEARS of daily intensive language training and several modifications of approach on that to obtain speech. A large portion her program was motor fluency practice because she had significant motor dysfluencies (one of the reasons sign or modified sign was not our first choice). It’s anecdotal but based on observation, I believe that the motor practice was a positive contributor. In any event, hearing her voice was a genuine joy, and she seems to be pleased as well.

]]> By: daedalus2u http://www.blisstree.com/articles/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/comment-page-1/#comment-553547 daedalus2u Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:13:54 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/#comment-553547 Every form of communication is essentially a motor activity, subtle movements of the face and body for body language, movement of the vocal cords for speach, movement of hands for signing, movement of fingers for typing or writing. Every form of communication is essentially a motor activity, subtle movements of the face and body for body language, movement of the vocal cords for speach, movement of hands for signing, movement of fingers for typing or writing.

]]> By: bev http://www.blisstree.com/articles/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/comment-page-1/#comment-540688 bev Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:00:49 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/#comment-540688 As a longtime user of chirping and trilling, I found this fascinating. Squawkers McCaw was happy to hear about it, too. As a longtime user of chirping and trilling, I found this fascinating. Squawkers McCaw was happy to hear about it, too.

]]> By: Emily http://www.blisstree.com/articles/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/comment-page-1/#comment-541568 Emily Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:51:50 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/#comment-541568 We got through to the baby with signs. It was his first real communication with us at age 17 months, after I'd been working on "more" with him since he was about four months. He had no words, but that signing of "more" was a major breakthrough for him. He uses it for everything, though, but since he figured out that using that sign is communication, and with his 2.5 hours of speech therapy weekly now for 6 weeks, he's got a few words at age 19 months: Down. Outside. Shoe. Still does not call any of us any names, but we're really excited about his progress. I feel like we've pulled him back from the brink of something with our better awareness of where these things can go and our move to effective therapy. I have friends who work in birdsong, and interestingly enough, one of them has an interest in using birdsong to explore correlates of and factors influencing autism. We got through to the baby with signs. It was his first real communication with us at age 17 months, after I’d been working on “more” with him since he was about four months. He had no words, but that signing of “more” was a major breakthrough for him. He uses it for everything, though, but since he figured out that using that sign is communication, and with his 2.5 hours of speech therapy weekly now for 6 weeks, he’s got a few words at age 19 months: Down. Outside. Shoe. Still does not call any of us any names, but we’re really excited about his progress. I feel like we’ve pulled him back from the brink of something with our better awareness of where these things can go and our move to effective therapy.

I have friends who work in birdsong, and interestingly enough, one of them has an interest in using birdsong to explore correlates of and factors influencing autism.

]]> By: Translating Autism http://www.blisstree.com/articles/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/comment-page-1/#comment-549544 Translating Autism Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:34:46 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/birdsong-and-vocal-learning-not-just-for-the-birds/#comment-549544 Very interesting take on a common phenomenon. My previous understanding was that this was related to the slow maturation of vocal control. So children's language centers develop faster than their vocal control, which allow them to use sign language to communicate. When this was first discover ed, I remember how many parents rushed to teach their 6-10 month old babies sign language and were amazed to see how well it worked. Unfortunately that also lead to a delay in the emergence of spoken language, likely due to the reliance on sign language by both parents and toddlers. So, as most things in life, it seems a balance probably leads to the best outcome. Sign language provides early means of communication that set the foundation for the emergence of spoken language. But the questions is, when and how to best facilitate that transition? Cheers, Nestor. Very interesting take on a common phenomenon. My previous understanding was that this was related to the slow maturation of vocal control. So children’s language centers develop faster than their vocal control, which allow them to use sign language to communicate. When this was first discover ed, I remember how many parents rushed to teach their 6-10 month old babies sign language and were amazed to see how well it worked. Unfortunately that also lead to a delay in the emergence of spoken language, likely due to the reliance on sign language by both parents and toddlers. So, as most things in life, it seems a balance probably leads to the best outcome. Sign language provides early means of communication that set the foundation for the emergence of spoken language. But the questions is, when and how to best facilitate that transition?
Cheers, Nestor.

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