David Kirby (and the supposed vaccine-autism link) deconstructed, yet again
September 27, 2008 by Kristina Chew, PhD
Filed under Health
Over at Salon on his blog sWell blog, physician Rahul K. Parikh deconstructs David Kirby’s September 24th presentation to Congressional staffers. The presentation’s title was “The Vaccine-Autism Debate: New Developments from Science and Policy” and the PowerPoint slides and a write-up are posted on the Age of Autism weblog. Sullivan has been posting about the hearing as Vaccines on the Hill III, Vaccines on the Hill II, and Vaccines on the Hill. Liz at I Speak of Dream noted that this latest attempt to “indoctrinate congressional staffers” by the usual suspects in the anti-vaccine/pro-vaccine safety annals—-Davis Kirby, Mark Blaxill (VP of Safe Minds)—-gets a fail.
Dr. Parikh explains why after assessing the claims of each of Kirby’s slides with an eye to Kirby’s use of certain rhetorical strategies. Two examples:
Slide 3: “A New Autism Vocabulary” [compare this phrase to Kirby's constant rebranding of autism]
Here goes onto use many scientific terms here. Among them, “autoimmunity,” “neuro-inflammation,” “gliosis”
Assessment: Mr. Kirby tries to establish his credibility as “an expert” by using words we learn in medical school and college neurobiology class. All of these terms could describe mechanisms by which autism, or any other neurodevelopmetal disorder in children or the elderly, start and progress. But none are specific to autism. “neuro-inflammation,” for example, could just as easily describe what happens when an elderly person develops Alzheimer’s Disease. But the “principle of authority” technique he uses helps to establish himself as a guru who deserves our attention.
Slide 4: This slide appears to cite a commentary (NOT a STUDY) from the medical journal, Pediatrics (he uses the logo at the top).
The commentary was about a conference convened in 2007 at the Insitute of Medicine to discuss the opportunities for research into and treatments of autism. Below the big header, Mr. Kirby writes, “The environment may play a significant role in triggering autism” and that “genes alone cannot account for its cause.”
Assessment: There is nothing said here that experts on both sides of the vaccine “debate” would disagree over. Genes + Environment = disease. It’s true for every chronic disease from Asthma to Diabetes to Heart Disease. A more accurate thing for Mr. Kirby to do would have beeen to actually cite his sources. It helps keep him accountable and credible.
I should note, however, the commentary he cites doesn’t mention vaccines at all.
And so on for several more slides; Dr. Parikh sums his analysis up with this:
There you have it. Mr. Kirby effectively uses fancy medical lingo to build his credibility and tell us things we already know, relies on science that he can’t cite the source of or that can’t be applied beyond Monkeys, gives us book reports on mitochondrial diseases and neuro-inflammation, calls court decisions and quotes from famous people proof of his point.
Just what was that point, anyway?
Further testimony to the fact that never was (and never should have been) any controversy over vaccines and autism, and that the belief that there is has been kept alive with a fair amount of propaganda?
Yes, Kirby carries “no credentials” for talking about vaccines etc.
Dr. chew do you not see the significance of this
Dr. Engley before he died was reported as saying on an KOMU article that “if they had followed through on our 82 report the vaccines would have been freed of thimerosal and all this autism they tell me would not have occurred”
And even worse than that my son was born in 1990 if they had followed through on their 1982
report my son would be playing football in school instead he is being babysitted all day long
@Digger and Ed
You don’t have the credentials and requisite medical/scientific training to be considered an expert in this area, so cutting and pasting this “scientificiness” from various websites, which also have a problem with “truthiness” is not going to hold any weight. Following the pseudoscience of the Kirby/AOA and the many others is not going to convince anyone that your arguments have any merit. As for GAME OVER, it is concerning thimerosal and MMR as a cause of autism. You just can’t admit to yourselves that your preciously held views have no substance or proof. You want to blame someone and something instead of just accepting that this is life and getting on with life.
@Digger, you should admit your biases and your complete lack of medical training. Making an ignorant statement like,
“Also you mention Minamata Bay that’s just Odd
because my son is in a video with people from
Minamata Bay showing the exact same behavior
as our children in all aspects “check mate”
proves it, because you are not a physician and have no authority or knowledge to “diagnose” anything in anybody. I have seen films and spoken to physicians who are and were there and they went through the data, and you are wrong. There are many ways in which those children and adults are different from autistics.
Storkdok; if you cannot answer the short comings of the FDA, or CDC, after I have set before you total proof, if you cannot see it. I for the life of me cannot understand this thinking for Its like saying we as Dr.s are perfect and never wrong. Remember this, the route of delivery vaccineal vs In jested, note that the toxins in the in jested route go through the filters
of the body where as vaccineal goes straight to the brain especially since the introduction of the HEP-B at birth. 12.5 micro-grams at birth. This is before the BBB has formed, but we also know that slicker from the FDA said that ethyl-mercury not only crosses the BBB, it also crosses the placental barrier. So if you truly have intelligence and you are a Doctor it seems you should be able to see the mass poisoning. But since you took part in the holocaust of our children then I guess it’s hard to admit you poisoned the very children you were in trusted with. The Simpson wood meeting where the Dr.s were saying that this is worse than other mercury poisonings. for as they said this was Bolus doses all at once at one point in time. it’s not just check mate it’s now! ” Game over! ” you say I copy & paste, and I know nothing I will bet this Dad of a very severely effected child by his vaccines knows more about this tragic mistake than most Dr.s that cannot stop parroting the CDC, that screwed up in the first place do your own research for God’s sake and the children…
But since you took part in the holocaust of our children
Good grief. Do you think you can be a little more hyperbolic?
If you now claim that the comparison to Minimata was invalid, then why did you make the comparison in the first place?
This is just a Gish Gallop.
Storkdok The people at the simpson wood meeting were in your words professionals
in medicine and they are the ones saying
this is worse than the other poisonings
because it’s bolus doses, answer them! and someone else you can’t hold a candle to and that’s Dr. researcher Hilleman from Merck a warning that went unheeded because of GREED!!!
is GREED your reason also? or you just afraid you
will be considered no better than Hitler. For the damage you may have caused, if you are a storkdok and not a CDC or FDA imposter.
storkdok you still have not answered the fact that the NIEHS has said that the work in the VSD is fatally flawed and the stuff done over seas is worse. And now for the Icing on the cake CDC’s Dir. Dr. Julie Gerberdine Concurrs
Regan your so gung ho you answer the questions do not attack me when you cannot answer the very valid questions. Do you know that the toxicity climbs by 10 x when you add the aluminum to the mercury it’s called the synergy effect of the two salts they are both neuro toxins but they become a super toxin when you mix aluminum and mercury. Even miners knew that the two react violently together answer this what the hell is it doing in Kids vaccines?? Dr. Engley which you could not buy for any money said It thimerosal is toxic at unbelievable levels
“It’s as toxic as it gets” what did the industry
and the FDA, and the CDC, not understand about his findings after all this was a AMA funded research and put in the AMA journal and the icing on the cake, it is useless as a antimicrobial. And you storkdok are right I cannot make that statement as a professional but this man can. pay close attention to what this pro says about preservative free and reduced thimerosal vaccines. It doe’s not match the hacks at the CDC, for their reputation is well earned shit. For when they chose to protect
the billionaires at the expense of very sick children they sealed their fate in history, and
only a complete house cleaning at the CDC,
and FDA, starting at the top to the bottom
will do any good… the CDC stench is overwhelming and their people, some have no conscience at all
Dr. Frank Engley studied thimerosal as far back as 1942. Dr. Engley is responsible for the 4 year School of Medicine at the University of Missouri. He has consulted for the CDC, IOM, NASA, FDA, EPA, CIA, AAMI, USP, Armed Forces Epidemiological boards, Army, Navy, Air Force as well as Director of research grants and training grants for NIH. Engley Served on the Council of the NIH Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease and a consultant on many Epidemiological Boards too many to list. Dr. Engley has been a visiting Professor in over 40 foreign countries medical schools. He has produced films, written text books, Laboratory Manuals, over 100 publications, served on editorial boards for numerous scientific journals and periodicals, including four American, two British and one German. Engley is certified by the American Board of Micro Biology and served as the Chair of the Laboratory of American Public Health Association. He has been listed in American Men and Women of Science, Who’s Who in America, Who’s Who in American Education, Who’s Who among Consultants and Who’s Who in the World. His toxicity studies of mercurials in human tissue culture revealed the mercurials were extremely toxic for human cells and the Thimerosal — the most active, toxic down to the nanogram. The amounts of mercury have gone down but vaccines still have 100 times that amount when they are in preservative free and reduced thimerosal vaccines.
Good Lord. It’s a nonsense blizzard. Time to break out the mental Gore-Tex.
what if I were to call you retards for that is what the CDC doe’s behind your backs after they
use you to do their dirty work. lets see they ruin you then use you, you guys really are stupid.
Interesting I see the CDC advertises on you page
You attacked first neuro diverse
@Digger, I’ve also read everything you’ve written (all the information at least) on other websites, blogs, etc.. I would prefer not to hear the word “retard” used here—this is not a blog about vaccines, but a blog about autism.
http://www.autismvox.com/the-r-word/
ammended
what if I were to call you retards for that is what the CDC doe’s behind your backs after they
use you to do their dirty work. lets see they ruin you then use you, you guys really are stupid.
Interesting I see the CDC advertises on your page.
You attacked first neuro diverse . . . .
you seem not to have any answers or refuse to
get in over your head which is it???
I apologise please forgive me
Digger, Kristina has a point: What do you say about autism and people with autism? Barely anything. It’s kinda interesting.
Jess I wish my son had any humanistic qualitys
he is a wrecking ball disguised like a boy and acts like a animal, with the labs from lab – core proving heavy metal toxicity it makes no sence
not recovering these children….
@Digger
You disgust me. Go crawl back under your rock you came from.
@Digger, the many other posts on this weblog go into many details of many of the studies and references that you post. I appreciate your perservering, but please note that this is also not a blog about heavy metal toxicity, but about autism. Very best wishes to your child and family.
Storkdok,
I do not claim any medical credentials. On the other hand, when medical professionals come up with a medical treatment beyond the drugs used for psychoses, I will recognize their credentials. That has not yet happened.
When my son lost his prodigious math abilities, every one in the medical profession shrugged their shoulders. When I heard a theory that amounted to neuron self destruction, I knew that the members of the medical profession knew less than I do, and I do not know much.
So please do not speak to me of credentials. In the world of autism, they mean nothing.
Storkdok,
Am I right that your sobrique indicates medical credentials? If so, let me ask a medical question. Why do autistics have low levels of glutatione? If you do not know, can you tell me who is researching it? Can you talk to me of their progress?
Ed these people do not know as much as a parent that has researched, after losing a perfectly normal child, and as far as science I asked them how ordering the IOM can be considered science. And not one answer has come from them, just that I am a copy and past-er. And also not one answer about the AMA paid for study of Dr. Engley It’s like I never wrote about him and after all I don’t blame them though, how can you even attempt to discredit a man with this mans credentials. He has to be right! and by saying that guess who is wrong, that’s right the CDC, FDA, and NIH, for all they have is alpha bet titles seems their science goes as far as goating a private agency in to doing what they say and destroying Verstraitens earlier work so that real scientist cannot find out how they went down 5 times to almost nothing. That must be their true meaning of science. We are all just wasting time reading about important
issues like you brought up about the depleted glutathione and the subset that ex NIH Dir. Healey said she cannot believe they refuse to save, for they wont do any real science because they are afraid of what they will find and let’s face it, that could be very embarrassing to the alpha bet morons. now getting back to what you asked for I know they will never answer an intelligent question so I will do it for them the glutathione is depleted by vaccines that contain
heavy metals and toxins and the worse predator is thimerosal because it depletes the glutathione
in the mitochondria, now If one doe’s a simple google you find every thing in a child’s vaccine
can and have caused mito – dysfunction or disorder again the misleading statement made by the president of the mitochondria foundation whom I spoke to for thirty minutes said he agreed to all the major Ingredients can and have caused mito – dysfunction or disorder note
his words in the carefully worded disclaimer says Disease and they are right. So as far as we know, it could very well be only hereditary but you notice he has not said mito – dysfunction or disorder as hannah had. For as he admitted to me I was right, but let me tell you he was very scarred and complimented me as to knowing as much as I did with out a medical back ground I just told him it’s a necessity when you are fighting the clock not to have your child put in a institution. Ed I wrote this and never got an answer; ” Do you know that the toxicity climbs by 10 x when you add the aluminum to the mercury it’s called the synergy effect of the two salts they are both neuro toxins but they become a super toxin when you mix aluminum and mercury. Even miners knew that the two react violently together answer this, what the hell is it doing in Kids vaccines??” for aluminum
and ethl-mercury by them selves cause Apoptosis AKA neuron cell death and while were
asking these hard questions that will never get answered a Yale university study found for the first time it has been found that high testostarone causes catastrofic loss of brain cells. Why do our children have higher than normal levels? And why is it the autism centers of excellance are not looking at any of the symptoms or the reason for high heavy metals
or high testostarone that according to a yale study is killing our children’s brain cells? that paired with all the apoptosis from vaccine ingredients and they wonder what happened to our kids it doe appear that the light is on but nobodys at home at the CDC,…
Dr. Jill James is often quoted by parents of autistic children for her work on glutathione (the research referred to here was presented at a 2005 conference. And Dr. James is a regular DAN! presenter.
Thank you kristina, and good night…
@Ed
The point is not what do I know, I know I’m not an expert in autism and the biophysiology, I am an OB/GYN. The point is that those people/professionals with the requisite background knowledge in certain medical and statistical areas are necessary to be able to sift through all the research to make public health decisions, and they are considered the experts. Just because you and many other parents don’t like it doesn’t change the fact that they are the experts, no matter how long and loud you proclaim they are not. You sure don’t understand the entire body of research, with no credentials or background studies in medicine and biostatistics. I have a lot more credibility than you do, but I don’t claim to be an expert in this area. Your “google PhD” is worth squat.
Your problem is “The Arrogance of Ignorance” and Prometheus wrote a nice piece on this. Those of you who proclaim longest and loudest that you understand the intricacies of autism and it’s physiology/anatomy/biochemistry/statistics and are experts are the least knowledgeable. Those of us who are far more qualified and have much more knowledge know that there is a lot more we don’t know, and we don’t proclaim we are experts.
You throw in comments and “facts” from a very few scientists and/or DAN doctors (quacks) opinions on autism that are not substantiated by the research. There are always a few nuts in every field. What holds up is science that is reproducible and consistent. You don’t have it.
There isn’t a conspiracy involving physicians and big pharma. You and your ilk will always accuse people of “being paid by big pharma”, it’s just so ridiculous. This isn’t a Tom Clancy novel. You’re little “sacred cow” just doesn’t meet the burden of proof for the medical community, and trumpeting ignorant opinions and pseudo facts from the Kirby’s or Olmstead’s of this pseudoscience isn’t going to make any of us slap our heads and say, “Oh, yeah, what was I thinking? There are the REAL autism experts.”
You guys are so immersed in this belief system you can’t see the gestalt. You are biased by the nature of being a parent. I understand that, but I step back, look at all this rationally, and have figured out that arguing about glutathione or whatever is not going to help my son.
What will help is to secure the services he needs and to keep on top of his programming. I choose to put my energies into research on how to help him TODAY and advocate for all autistics, for their future and the services they need. I choose to not have a victim mentality and play the blame game. I choose to be a mom to my son and to love him and treat him as an equal member of society, not as “damaged goods” or “less human”. Digger’s repulsive statements about his son show that he has the same mentality that lead to the holocaust.
One real autism expert wrote an excellent, well researched book on the medical management of autism. You should read Dr. Michael Chez’s book, “Autism and It’s Medical Management”, it is the best guide out on the subject, and doesn’t contain quackery.
So get off your high horse, you are no expert. Stop patting each other on the back for your perceived expertise and get on with life.
Again storkdok were not the ones declaring this at the simpsonwood meeting Dr. Brent: Page 229: “The medical legal findings in this study, causal or not, are horrendous and therefore, it is important that the suggested epidemiological, pharmacokinetic, and animal studies be performed. If an allegation was made that a child’s neurobehavioral findings were caused by Thimerosal containing vaccines, you could readily find a junk scientist who would support the claim with “a reasonable degree of certainty”. But you will not find a scientist with any integrity who would say the reverse with the data that is available. And that is true. So we are in a bad position from the standpoint of defending any lawsuits if they were initiated and I am concerned.” so if I understand these “experts” right they are saying that a junk scientist is one that will present the truth and who would support the claim with “a reasonable degree of certainty” Then I guess they found scientist that
had no integrity because after that meeting all that data that was bad news for those experts
suddenly was changed to more acceptable data.
But we know shady stuff was going on because Dr. weil told them this. Dr. Weil: Page 207: ” The number of dose related relationships are linear and statistically significant. You can play with this all you want. They are linear. They are statistically significant. The positive relationships are those that one might expect from the Faroe Islands studies. They are also related to those data we do have on experimental animal data and similar to the neurodevelopmental tox data on other substances, so that I think you can’t accept that this is out of the ordinary. It isn’t out of the ordinary. The Seychelles Island studies and somebody said the Faeroe Islands studies both, were chronic exposures. We are not talking necessarily about chronic exposure. We are talking about a series of acute exposures and at one point in time that exposure is much greater on one day than any of the Seychelles Islands. The increased incidence of neurobehavioral problems in children in the past few decades is probably real. I work in the school system where my effort is entirely in special education and I have to say that the number of kids getting help in special education is growing nationally and state by state at a rate we have not seen before. these are also the same “experts” that when Dr. Verstraeten went to work at GSK and the the CDC moved his work down 5 times to almost nothing, remember he had not worked for them in three and a half years
he was working for GSK that at that time was in
litigation against the parents of autistic families.
So you all know what that means, conflict of interest, but it made it’s way in the prestigious
journal of the AAP boy you talk about a hack
journal. One that even after being confronted
by a congressman Dr. Weldon had refused to remove his work from their journal isn’t it funny
how a double standard exist. Remember
Dr. Wakefield how fast he was removed for a perceived conflict. You see storkdok you can’t have it both ways, and say that this is sound science. By the way the earlier work from verstreaten was destroyed even after Dr. congressman Weldon warned Dr. gerberdine
The Dir. of the CDC that he had heard that the
earlier work from verstreaten was in danger of being destroyed and as history has shown it was. So we have your so called experts lieing to
get verstreatens work in the AAP journal and destroying his earlier work then these ” experts”
are caught saying that verstreatens new work
cleared thimerosal when the “expert” said in a
letter when he found out he was about to be subpoenaed to the US. that he did not find a negative or a positive he found a neutral so
at best they had a neutral finding. So your
“experts” seem to be crooks as well this should anger you. For I have given you the truth, and if it doe’s not anger you then I would be wondering about you and your integrity As a Doctor and
how you perceive the American people as the enemy. And with the MSDS sheet from thimersal
stating that pregnant women should not be exposed to their product for it can readily cross the BBB and the placental barrier also
and cause mild to severe mental retardation
storkdok this is your “expertise” do you allow a pregnant woman to get a Flu shot containing
thimerosal after the maker says you should not.
Well the CDC did, that is how the thimerosal got back in the children when at the simpsonwood
meeting they were saying this
“Dr. Weil: Page 24: “One, up until this last discussion we have been talking about chronic exposure. I think it’s clear to me anyway that we are talking about a problem that is probably more related to bolus acute exposures, and we also need to know that the migration problems and some of the other developmental problems in the central nervous system go on for quite a period after birth. But from all of the other studies of toxic substances, the earlier you work with the central nervous system, the more likely you are to run into a sensitive period for one of these effects, so that moving from one month or one day of birth to six months of birth changes enormously the potential for toxicity. There are just a host of neurodevelopmental data that would suggest that we’ve got a serious problem. The earlier we go, the more serious the problem. The second point I could make is that in relationship to aluminum, being a nephrologist for a long time, the potential for aluminum and central nervous system toxicity was established by dialysis data. To think there isn’t some possible problem here is unreal.”
Dr. verstreaten ;Another point is that in many of the studies with animals, it turned out that there is quite a different result depending on the dose of mercury. Depending on the route of exposure and depending on the age at which the animals were exposed. Now, I don’t know how much you can extrapolate that from animals to humans, but that tells me mercury at one month of age is not the same as mercury at three months, at 12 months, prenatal mercury, later mercury. There is a whole range of plausible outcomes from mercury. On top of that, I think that we cannot so easily compare the U.S. population to Faeroe or Seychelles populations. We have different mean levels of exposure. We are comparing high to high in the Seychelles, high to high in the Faeroe and low to low in the U.S., so I am not sure how easily you can transpose one finding to another one. So basically to me that leaves all the options open, and that means I can not exclude such a possible effect.”…
From what I can get by what is being said, is that you would not ever want to go any earlier.
that is unless you are wanting the out comes
after all they said we have a plan in place
What was their plan??
plan #1 pregnant women Flu shots
what did they know? that the MSDS says not to
expose pregnant women.
plan #2 children 6 – mos to 2 years Flu shots
what did they know? that children 6 – mos to 2 years of age get absolutely no benefit from the inactivated flu vacc. except that of a placebo effect.
These “experts” seem awful damn dangerous
with “experts” like this who needs Terrorist?
@Digger
You disgust me. It is YOU who are not human, not your son.
You have no expertise, you are a puppet. Go crawl back under your rock.
@Storkdok
“Your “google PhD” is worth squat.”
You mock me. I do not claim to have the answers. What I recognize is that the so called experts don’t have any either. They offer nothing and then decry any attempt by parents to look for answers elsewhere.
“Your problem is “The Arrogance of Ignorance”"
It is not arrogance to see and recognize when so called expert opinions do not follow from the data offered.
“You throw in comments and “facts” from a very few scientists and/or DAN doctors (quacks) opinions on autism that are not substantiated by the research.”
What is it I said that you object to?
“There isn’t a conspiracy involving physicians and big pharma. You and your ilk will always accuse people of “being paid by big pharma”, it’s just so ridiculous. This isn’t a Tom Clancy novel. You’re little “sacred cow” just doesn’t meet the burden of proof for the medical community, and trumpeting ignorant opinions and pseudo facts from the Kirby’s or Olmstead’s of this pseudoscience isn’t going to make any of us slap our heads and say, “Oh, yeah, what was I thinking? There are the REAL autism experts.”"
I never claimed that there is a conspiracy. If you are going to criticize me, please stick to the facts.
“You guys are so immersed in this belief system you can’t see the gestalt. You are biased by the nature of being a parent. I understand that, but I step back, look at all this rationally, and have figured out that arguing about glutathione or whatever is not going to help my son.”
You have drawn some interesting conclusions, I am just not sure how you reached them. I asked about glutathione because there are data both in and out of medical journals that link glutathione issues with a wide variety of brain issues including alzheimers, parkinsons, down’s syndrome, autism, alcoholic’s dementia and more. I ask if there is anyone among the experts who is researching this because I have not found them. I sincerely hope that I am just missing them.
And BTW, my son has been helped by glutathione. His circumstances are different from other autistics and I do not claim that what worked for him will work for everyone.
“What will help is to secure the services he needs and to keep on top of his programming. I choose to put my energies into research on how to help him TODAY and advocate for all autistics, for their future and the services they need. I choose to not have a victim mentality and play the blame game. I choose to be a mom to my son and to love him and treat him as an equal member of society, not as “damaged goods” or “less human”. Digger’s repulsive statements about his son show that he has the same mentality that lead to the holocaust.”
Without medical assistance, many autistics will never be part of our society no matter how much intervention is to be done.
“One real autism expert wrote an excellent, well researched book on the medical management of autism. You should read Dr. Michael Chez’s book, “Autism and It’s Medical Management”, it is the best guide out on the subject, and doesn’t contain quackery.”
I can’t speak on this
“So get off your high horse, you are no expert. Stop patting each other on the back for your perceived expertise and get on with life.”
I don’t claim to be an expert and I am not sure what you are talking about.
Storkdoc
You wrote ;The point is that those people/professionals with the requisite background knowledge in certain medical and statistical areas are necessary to be able to sift through all the research to make public health decisions, and they are considered the experts.
With what I wrote about the “experts” and how they were selling out the American people at that meeting. So the “experts” really know how to sift through the research. Do you know what that is called “cherry picking” to get the outcome you desire, another words fraud. But we dumb outsiders don’t really know what is good for us. But these criminals do? you really need to wake up, especially being a doctor seems you have lost all reality.
This was the CDC representitives words at the meeting asking to conseal this from the public
Dr. Bernier: Page 113: “We have asked you to keep this information confidential. We do have a plan for discussing these data at the upcoming meeting of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices on June 21 and June 22. At that time CDC plans to make a public release of this information, so I think it would serve all of our interests best if we could continue to consider these data. The ACIP work group will be considering also. If we could consider these data in a certain protected environment. So we are asking people who have done a great job protecting this information up until now, to continue to do that until the time of the ACIP meeting. So too basically consider this embargoed information. That would help all of us to use the machinery that we have in place for considering these data and for arriving at policy recommendations.”
This is what the professionals “experts” decided to do with the information. Read these next statements that reveal that they removed from the findings the proof the children had been harmed. And they held it back from their own committees the worse findings until they were caught by safe minds and then forced to admit
in this letter the damning findings. and what they did not want the American public to know
This is not science this is worse than TREASON
and if you being a doctor cannot condemn these
terrorist then you my friend need help!
Dear Committee members,
SAFE MIND’s recently obtained the transcribed minutes to the Simpsonwood meeting held June 7-8, 2000 in Norcross, Georgia where the finding of the Vaccine Safety Datalink analysis of Thimerosal containing vaccines and neurodevelopmental outcomes were reviewed by a panel of experts. There were a number of additional findings not previously reported that were contained in this document that I would like to share with the committee.
Storkdok
You might want to check, the CDC is never supposed to do anything that’s not in the public eye and always with complete transparently.
“The simpsonwood meeting was done in secrete”
It seems they the CDC doe’s what so ever it pleases and in turn lies to the American public.
So often you never know when they are telling the truth. or mostly when they are lieing
Dr. Offit’s book, Autism False Prophets, clarifies the details of many of the matters noted here. It’s unfortunate that so much effort—-while, well-meant—is put into worrying about conspiracy theories; there’s so very much to do every day.
Ed
if you only knew what my son is doing now, he is making screams and noises that animals make
he scratches us, he has destroyed the house all glass had to be changed to Plexiglas because he had went through two glass windows. He also has broken the plumbing off under the house
he has torn up three couches and three beds
with mattresses so how do you say I was wrong’
by what I said. He also has three times the testostarone as a normal child and is on lupron
with out it his brain would die. He has the labs from lab core proving heavy metal toxicity,
so what the hell are we doing leaving these kids
to languish in their toxic soup and let there brains
shrivel up and die and you Ed saying I don’t believe this is a conspiracy you really need to look up the definition for that is exactly what this is, definition of conspiracy is a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act, the last time I checked
poisoning children is a unlawful act and when you conspire to keep it in the children after knowing the damage done to keep the autism
rate climbing then it is no longer a unlawful act it
then becomes worse than treason and just
plain sick… so you betcha this is a conspiracy
and the worse kind, one against helpless children
You hurt me ED
Digger,
Let’s put the matter plain.
What exactly are you looking for here?
If it’s a VICP judgment settlement, that’s in the hands of the Omnibus Hearings which are closely examining various permutations of this theory in discussion with some of the best in the business; they may be issuing some kind of decision soon. If you are looking at civil liability–there’s a case in Georgia, that will go forward or not, depending on Daubert and circumstances. If it’s a congressional hearing or a legislative solution, I suggest writing your representatives. If you are looking to debate and joust with a receptive audience for your investigations and theories, I suggest Respectful Insolence or one of the science blogs–coincidentally there is a discussion on the exact matters over at ScienceBlogs bookclub. I am sure there are persons there who more than welcome the challenge. If you want commiseration, Age of Autism would be more than happy.
Do you want someone to say, “Good work”, or “I am sorry for your tragic circumstances?” Or do you simply want to stir up people, be provocative and insulting in apparent effort to make them as angry as you appear to be, or be witness to a vent? (The things that you are citing are more than available at whale.to and other websites.) And then what?
what the hell are we doing leaving these kids
to languish in their toxic soup and let there brains
shrivel up and die
I don’t know what you were doing tonight but my daughter and I had an enjoyable time making dinner together, as learning to cook is one of our goals in her curriculum. I think in a little bit we will play a board game and then read a book together, as we do most evenings.
I think I will simply agree to disagree and to keep my own counsel. Good night and best wishes to you and your son, sincerely. I hope that you find resolution to the issues that have you concerned. And if my reply is unsatisfactory–so it goes. Please feel free to reply as you see fit or not. I won’t be commenting further.
Digger or any one that might stell may be you all should look up the symptoms for arsenic poisoning. You may get this with fluoridated water[lead and arsenic].You never know but this may help with the stomach pains. Just a though!!!
I saved two children from the DAN doctors this week, they won’t be getting unnecessary unproved treatments or chelation, and will be seeing competent, trained autism specialists.
@Storkdok
I do not want to see children given treatments that are dangerous or do not work. At the same time, I look forward to the day when modern medicine has something that works for autistic children so that this does not happen.
@Ed
If you are really serious about that, read Dr. Michael Chez’s book, “Autism and It’s Medical Management”. It lists the options for mainstream and cutting edge but not quack medicines/treatments. Modern medicine does offer options. It just recognizes that there isn’t a cure and it isn’t “poisoning”.
@Storkdok
I have not read the book, but I will. My hope is that it does not just offer psychiatric drugs like wellbutrin or stimulants such as adderall. That was all that was available during my son’s childhood. If this is all that is available, then I still say that it is no wonder that parents look for alternatives.
@storkdoc ; if you give some one a small dose of any thing that does not kill that person you are poisoning no matter what it may be. As you know that arsenic is also knowned as a heavy metal as with that of lead and mercury. a.good read at this website might be worth a lood at. cnn/HEALTH/librnay/FL/00068.html So today we get a small amount of these though the water supply that we drink eney day. The smaller you are the nore effect it has on the body.