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	<title>Comments on: David Kirby exonerates thimerosal</title>
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	<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/</link>
	<description>Family, Health, Home and Lifestyles</description>
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		<title>By: Autism Vox 2008 in Review: August-December</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/comment-page-1/#comment-565188</link>
		<dc:creator>Autism Vox 2008 in Review: August-December</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 09:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/#comment-565188</guid>
		<description>[...] the same time, Denis Leary did a Michael Savage, Charlie seemed to grow taller every week, and David Kirby exonerated thimerosal, and as quickly said he [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the same time, Denis Leary did a Michael Savage, Charlie seemed to grow taller every week, and David Kirby exonerated thimerosal, and as quickly said he [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/comment-page-1/#comment-564386</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 03:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/#comment-564386</guid>
		<description>While I have not seen the fall in autism cases that one would expect from taking thimerosal out of vaccines, I do not allow our family physician to give my son any vaccine that has thimerosal.  I say this without regard to whether thimerosal is causes or triggers autism.  My reasons are as follows:

1.  Mercury is a cumulative toxin.  I will not deliberately add to my son&#039;s mercury load, not with vaccines, not with fillings.  
2.  Ever since Dr. Rosemary Waring did her experiments with tylenol there have been indications that autistic children have different glutathione chemistry than the rest of us.  Since this chemistry is responsible for handling mercury, I will separate my son from any source of heavy metals I can.
3.  Although it would require a long explanation, suffice it to say that my son&#039;s history supports the idea that autistics do not handle heavy metals the same way the rest of us do.  

The vitriolic debate which Kirby&#039;s book is only part of has done us a disservice.  Thimerosal is not safe for autistic children.  That will be true irrespective of whether it is part of autism&#039;s causality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I have not seen the fall in autism cases that one would expect from taking thimerosal out of vaccines, I do not allow our family physician to give my son any vaccine that has thimerosal.  I say this without regard to whether thimerosal is causes or triggers autism.  My reasons are as follows:</p>
<p>1.  Mercury is a cumulative toxin.  I will not deliberately add to my son&#8217;s mercury load, not with vaccines, not with fillings.<br />
2.  Ever since Dr. Rosemary Waring did her experiments with tylenol there have been indications that autistic children have different glutathione chemistry than the rest of us.  Since this chemistry is responsible for handling mercury, I will separate my son from any source of heavy metals I can.<br />
3.  Although it would require a long explanation, suffice it to say that my son&#8217;s history supports the idea that autistics do not handle heavy metals the same way the rest of us do.  </p>
<p>The vitriolic debate which Kirby&#8217;s book is only part of has done us a disservice.  Thimerosal is not safe for autistic children.  That will be true irrespective of whether it is part of autism&#8217;s causality.</p>
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		<title>By: Autism Blog - &#187; Blog Archive &#187; David Kirby clarifies?</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/comment-page-1/#comment-559364</link>
		<dc:creator>Autism Blog - &#187; Blog Archive &#187; David Kirby clarifies?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/#comment-559364</guid>
		<description>[...] is obviously a reader of this blog or Autism Vox or Respectful Insolence as these are (so far as I know) the three blogs that commented on his claim [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is obviously a reader of this blog or Autism Vox or Respectful Insolence as these are (so far as I know) the three blogs that commented on his claim [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Norah</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/comment-page-1/#comment-558878</link>
		<dc:creator>Norah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/#comment-558878</guid>
		<description>I do have bowel issues (nothing a diet helps, by the way), but I don&#039;t think it has anything to do with autism: we have several things that run in the family (including the above) and I just happen to have collected quite a few of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do have bowel issues (nothing a diet helps, by the way), but I don&#8217;t think it has anything to do with autism: we have several things that run in the family (including the above) and I just happen to have collected quite a few of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristina Chew, PhD</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/comment-page-1/#comment-555846</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristina Chew, PhD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 03:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/#comment-555846</guid>
		<description>@Cristina, hope you find some answers....... very best....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Cristina, hope you find some answers&#8230;&#8230;. very best&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Cristina</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/comment-page-1/#comment-559192</link>
		<dc:creator>Cristina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 01:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/#comment-559192</guid>
		<description>Thank you for posting these studies and information. I will look more into them. We have begun the process through a ped GI doc. Still going through testing and soon the scoping. It&#039;s not Celiac, we know so far. IGa is low (about half of normal range), he has a single kidney. My oldest will begin the process in January.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for posting these studies and information. I will look more into them. We have begun the process through a ped GI doc. Still going through testing and soon the scoping. It&#8217;s not Celiac, we know so far. IGa is low (about half of normal range), he has a single kidney. My oldest will begin the process in January.</p>
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		<title>By: María Luján</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/comment-page-1/#comment-559179</link>
		<dc:creator>María Luján</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 01:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/#comment-559179</guid>
		<description>Hi stardock 

I have several aspects to consider from the study you posted-especially considering the manuscripts from Horvath et al. Medical conditions like reflux are manifested by pain but  (potentially ) missed because the behavior associated is not correlated to pain and stomache but with &quot;autism&quot; for example.- pressing the stomach against surfaces or screaming or others. GERD is not listed in the manuscript.
One of the most recent published manuscripts form the Dr Horvath group (2002) reported for 36 children with ASD symptoms like chronic diarrhea, abdominal discomfort and distension. The histological examination revealed grade I or II reflux esophagitis in 69.4 % (25/36), chronic gastritis in near 40 %(15/36) and chronic duodenitis in near 66.6 % (24/36). Twenty two of the 25 children with reflux (88%) had night awakenings, signs of abdominal disconfort and pushing on the abdomen. None of the patients had H. Pylori.
Low intestinal carbohydrate digestive enzyme activity was reported in 21 children of 36 (58.3 %), even when no abnormality was found in pancreatic function. 27 of 36 children had an increased pancreatico billiar fluid output after intravenous secretin administration. 21 of 36 children had diarrhea (near 60 %). Low lactase was found in 14 patients. One kind of cells, the Paneth cells, showed similar results to studies done to Chron´s patients.
Kushak R and Buie T reported lactase deficiency in 58-65 %, isomaltase/palatinase deficiency in 30 to 40 % in ASD. Children with intestinal inflamation are 77 % deficient in lactase and 64 % in isomaltase.
Same author studied the possibility of GER (Gastroesophageal reflux) with GI complaints and aggression or self-injurious behavior GER was identified in 5 of 5 patients tested by wireless pH testing. Esophagitis was seen in 3 of 6 patients biopsied.
* pH testing data are reported in a scale called de Meester score. Normal is less than 14.72. Autistic Children showed from 19.7 to 75.1.
* Authors conclude that aggressive or self injury behavior may be a manifestation of pain from GERD

The manuscript you posted did not consider digestive enzymes defficiencies or GERD or subtle nutritional defficiencies or liver and kidney function for example. With the problems with communication of pain  there is no information about how the doctors selected the conditions only they listed in the table and they did not measure others such as acid-base status or Ig measurements or even the basic mineral was not addressed.The average age is low compared with other studies and the range is not provided, for example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi stardock </p>
<p>I have several aspects to consider from the study you posted-especially considering the manuscripts from Horvath et al. Medical conditions like reflux are manifested by pain but  (potentially ) missed because the behavior associated is not correlated to pain and stomache but with &#8220;autism&#8221; for example.- pressing the stomach against surfaces or screaming or others. GERD is not listed in the manuscript.<br />
One of the most recent published manuscripts form the Dr Horvath group (2002) reported for 36 children with ASD symptoms like chronic diarrhea, abdominal discomfort and distension. The histological examination revealed grade I or II reflux esophagitis in 69.4 % (25/36), chronic gastritis in near 40 %(15/36) and chronic duodenitis in near 66.6 % (24/36). Twenty two of the 25 children with reflux (88%) had night awakenings, signs of abdominal disconfort and pushing on the abdomen. None of the patients had H. Pylori.<br />
Low intestinal carbohydrate digestive enzyme activity was reported in 21 children of 36 (58.3 %), even when no abnormality was found in pancreatic function. 27 of 36 children had an increased pancreatico billiar fluid output after intravenous secretin administration. 21 of 36 children had diarrhea (near 60 %). Low lactase was found in 14 patients. One kind of cells, the Paneth cells, showed similar results to studies done to Chron´s patients.<br />
Kushak R and Buie T reported lactase deficiency in 58-65 %, isomaltase/palatinase deficiency in 30 to 40 % in ASD. Children with intestinal inflamation are 77 % deficient in lactase and 64 % in isomaltase.<br />
Same author studied the possibility of GER (Gastroesophageal reflux) with GI complaints and aggression or self-injurious behavior GER was identified in 5 of 5 patients tested by wireless pH testing. Esophagitis was seen in 3 of 6 patients biopsied.<br />
* pH testing data are reported in a scale called de Meester score. Normal is less than 14.72. Autistic Children showed from 19.7 to 75.1.<br />
* Authors conclude that aggressive or self injury behavior may be a manifestation of pain from GERD</p>
<p>The manuscript you posted did not consider digestive enzymes defficiencies or GERD or subtle nutritional defficiencies or liver and kidney function for example. With the problems with communication of pain  there is no information about how the doctors selected the conditions only they listed in the table and they did not measure others such as acid-base status or Ig measurements or even the basic mineral was not addressed.The average age is low compared with other studies and the range is not provided, for example.</p>
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		<title>By: mayfly</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/comment-page-1/#comment-558109</link>
		<dc:creator>mayfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/#comment-558109</guid>
		<description>My child has no digestive issues.  I know about five children all under the care of DAN practitioners whose parents report chronic stool problems.  These children are all under six years of age.  I sometimes wonder whether following the DAN protocol leads to these problems.

I was talking to the father of a 16-year old, high functioning son.  Thoughts of driving have come to fore and he is worried about his son&#039;s ability in that area.  Currently the lad bicycles to school on his own.

To tie it back to the digestive arena.  The son, I&#039;ll call him Mark  was on multiple supplements.  They cut those out because the anxiety of trying to give those to him outweighed any perceived benefit.  Mark was also gluten/casein free.  His parents did not want to have this be a barrier to building relationships.  If his peers were having pizza, they would let Mark join them in the feast.   The move caused little in the way of gastric distress, and Mark became more a part of the gang.
------------------------</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My child has no digestive issues.  I know about five children all under the care of DAN practitioners whose parents report chronic stool problems.  These children are all under six years of age.  I sometimes wonder whether following the DAN protocol leads to these problems.</p>
<p>I was talking to the father of a 16-year old, high functioning son.  Thoughts of driving have come to fore and he is worried about his son&#8217;s ability in that area.  Currently the lad bicycles to school on his own.</p>
<p>To tie it back to the digestive arena.  The son, I&#8217;ll call him Mark  was on multiple supplements.  They cut those out because the anxiety of trying to give those to him outweighed any perceived benefit.  Mark was also gluten/casein free.  His parents did not want to have this be a barrier to building relationships.  If his peers were having pizza, they would let Mark join them in the feast.   The move caused little in the way of gastric distress, and Mark became more a part of the gang.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
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		<title>By: Regan</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/comment-page-1/#comment-558105</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 19:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/#comment-558105</guid>
		<description>And about &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.autismvox.com/minnesota-has-the-highest-autism-rate-depends-on-how-you-count-it/#comment-509170&quot;&gt;taking the claims about geography and autism prevalence with a grain of salt.&lt;/a&gt; There are other factors that are at least as significant.

Anywho--&#039;day&#039;s a wastin&#039;. Have a good one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And about <a href="http://www.autismvox.com/minnesota-has-the-highest-autism-rate-depends-on-how-you-count-it/#comment-509170">taking the claims about geography and autism prevalence with a grain of salt.</a> There are other factors that are at least as significant.</p>
<p>Anywho&#8211;&#8217;day&#8217;s a wastin&#8217;. Have a good one.</p>
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		<title>By: Storkdok</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/comment-page-1/#comment-558100</link>
		<dc:creator>Storkdok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 19:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/david-kirby-exonerates-thimerosal/#comment-558100</guid>
		<description>Cristina,

My son, who is autistic, had diarrhea and severe pain, severe flatulence (gas) from birth on.  He never slept through the night, and was up at least 6 times a night.  We thought it was the GI symptoms, because when he woke up, he would scream and grab his belly and roll around until he either had a diarrhea stool or flatulence, then the pain receded.  He was finally diagnosed with Crohn&#039;s disease (inflammatory bowel disease) and severe gastritis by Dr. Timothy Buie at Mass General Hospital when 2.5 years of age.  It took 6 months of treatments with medications until he finally was stabilized and having a normal BM once a day with no pain.  My son was able to learn more easily without the pain and with getting sleep at night and absorbing nutrients, he has made steady progress.  

I know how hard it is to live with GI diseases, I was also diagnosed with Crohn&#039;s 2.5 years ago.  It is extremely painful.  I thought I had IBS all my life and I just lived with it.  

Have your children seen a pediatric gastroenterologist for their GI symptoms?  If not, I would insist on a consult with one.  I had to go a long ways to find Dr. Buie, who listened to us.  There was one pedi GI doctor who blew us off before we found Dr. Buie, because my son couldn&#039;t talk and say he had pain and where.  Dr. Buie understood that my son communicated his pain in different ways.

I think you are hearing more about GI problems in the autistic population because parents tend to talk about them more, you read about it on the web, and I know the DAN doctors throw out a lot of &quot;information&quot; about the GI tract, much not substantiated by medical studies.  But as a physician, my patient&#039;s used to tell me a lot about their NT kids having all kinds of GI disorders.  In the medical books on GI disorders in children (in Dr. Buie&#039;s office!) I read about a lot of NT children having GI disorders.  You just never hear about it, their parents don&#039;t tend to talk about it.  I mean, the estimates for IBS in children range from 5-15% of all children, that is actually a lot of children!  You just don&#039;t hear about it.

I understand your frustration, and if you&#039;d like to communicate further, send me an email from my blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cristina,</p>
<p>My son, who is autistic, had diarrhea and severe pain, severe flatulence (gas) from birth on.  He never slept through the night, and was up at least 6 times a night.  We thought it was the GI symptoms, because when he woke up, he would scream and grab his belly and roll around until he either had a diarrhea stool or flatulence, then the pain receded.  He was finally diagnosed with Crohn&#8217;s disease (inflammatory bowel disease) and severe gastritis by Dr. Timothy Buie at Mass General Hospital when 2.5 years of age.  It took 6 months of treatments with medications until he finally was stabilized and having a normal BM once a day with no pain.  My son was able to learn more easily without the pain and with getting sleep at night and absorbing nutrients, he has made steady progress.  </p>
<p>I know how hard it is to live with GI diseases, I was also diagnosed with Crohn&#8217;s 2.5 years ago.  It is extremely painful.  I thought I had IBS all my life and I just lived with it.  </p>
<p>Have your children seen a pediatric gastroenterologist for their GI symptoms?  If not, I would insist on a consult with one.  I had to go a long ways to find Dr. Buie, who listened to us.  There was one pedi GI doctor who blew us off before we found Dr. Buie, because my son couldn&#8217;t talk and say he had pain and where.  Dr. Buie understood that my son communicated his pain in different ways.</p>
<p>I think you are hearing more about GI problems in the autistic population because parents tend to talk about them more, you read about it on the web, and I know the DAN doctors throw out a lot of &#8220;information&#8221; about the GI tract, much not substantiated by medical studies.  But as a physician, my patient&#8217;s used to tell me a lot about their NT kids having all kinds of GI disorders.  In the medical books on GI disorders in children (in Dr. Buie&#8217;s office!) I read about a lot of NT children having GI disorders.  You just never hear about it, their parents don&#8217;t tend to talk about it.  I mean, the estimates for IBS in children range from 5-15% of all children, that is actually a lot of children!  You just don&#8217;t hear about it.</p>
<p>I understand your frustration, and if you&#8217;d like to communicate further, send me an email from my blog.</p>
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