Denis Leary Tries (Tries) to Defend Himself
November 17, 2008 by Kristina Chew, PhD
Filed under Health
Contrary to what he said a few weeks ago, Denis Leary doesn’t seem to be so sorry after all about what he said autism in his yet to be published book. From a November 16th USA Today interview:
“For me, the reason for writing the chapter was because I know people who have children with autism, and I’m offended by people actually trying to seek out a low-level diagnosis for their kids because they’re too lazy to deal with their kids’ behavior,” Leary says.
Leary, 51, is a married father of two teenagers. And over pasta at a downtown Italian restaurant, the actor/comedian (he also plays a troubled firefighter on FX’s Rescue Me) explains that he’s still miffed over the reports that led to autism advocates’ outrage. He says the offending excerpt, first published in the New York Post, was taken out of context, leaving the impression that Leary was attacking parents of autistic children.
“If I was a person in the same shoes as a lot of the people who read it, I would be just as upset, because it looked like I was talking about the opposite. It really made me angry that that was the way it was painted,” he says. “I was a comedy doctor discussing autism, not a real doctor defining autism.”
Hmmmm—-kind of seems like Leary was a little unaware of the what other people (specifically people in the autism community) might feel upon reading his book. Maybe he was a little “mind-blind” in writing that chapter “about” autism>
On the other hand, Leary is kind of living up to what the subtitle of the book says and, with everything he says in defense of himself, succumbing further to being (while not “fat”), more and more “loud, lazy, and stupid.”
Good grief. He’s miffed?
Is it possible for him to just…shut…up? Shh. Quiet. No more talking. Give it a rest.
I look forward to seeing the book in the bargain bin of the B&N in the near future.
I’m particularly irritated by this explanation. He seems to be insinuating that he’s not talking about kids with “real” autism, but about the kids with “behavioral issues” because their parents are “lazy.” What he’s now acknowledging is that behavioral issues are often a significant part of autism. Is he suggesting that the non-behavioral aspects of autism aren’t the parents’ fault, but that the behavioral aspcts are?
Oh, who cares. He’s just a jerk. It is sad, though, that people can get rich in this country by picking on children with disabilities, isn’t it?
And the book has yet to be published!
I can’t figure out why he criticizing the kids and their parents when it’s the clinicians and the schools that have come up with this so-called “low level diagnosis.” It exists, and kids are getting diagnosed with it. He needs to take his case up with the DSM-V team and the Department of Education.
The thing that makes me laugh about all this is the fact that he thinks “lazy” parents would want a kid with any kind of ASD diagnosis. If they’re too lazy to discipline, how can they deal with all the doctor’s appointments and OT and speech and medication juggling and IEP meetings and special school tuitions, etc., etc., etc.? It would be a helluva lot easier to spank the kid, turn him “normal,” and never have a diagnosis.
And since when are parents of kids with autism–”low level” or not–the only “lazy” parents? Where’s his chapter calling out fat kids and their parents? Or poor kids and their parents? No matter how he wants to slice it, he’s still singling out autistic kids and their parents for ridicule. I’m gonna guess he was beaten by his parents and he thinks that’s why he behaved himself.
His point is a really common (unfortunately) point of view that most of us who have kids with Asperger’s and HFA have heard over and over, usually beginning with our own families. It usually begins with something like “If he were my son…”
When my son was diagnosed, my brother and father-in-law both voiced similar opinions, although they said it more nicely than Leary. Unless a child has a serious language delay or fits the stereotypical image of autism (like Raymond in Rain Man), a lot of people just don’t see it. I can get a sense very quickly from people who “get it” and have just learned to tune out the people who I can sense just don’t get it. I have a limited amount of energy to expend raising 3 kids, working and taking care of my house. I don’t waste my energy on ignorant people like him.
Beth: My brother typifies what you have described. When he perceives my son’s limited diet, he says “If he were my son, he wouldn’t get anything else to eat until he ate his [whatever].” He apparently doesn’t believe that, when we made my son eat foods that he had a sensory aversion to as a toddler, it resulted in massive vomiting… (I suspect that my brother would respond, “If my child vomited like that, I’d [insert discipline here].” What is ironic is that my brother himself has numerous autism spectrum symptoms, and an extremely limited diet…
Well,
I read the chapter.
It’s only my personal recommendation, but do not, do not, do not, as in do not read this chapter or this book…which offends, somewhat by its content, but more so because it is not funny, and I would be offended in being conned into wasting good money better spent elsewhere.
Take the money that you would have wasted, and take your kids out for ice cream or something else that the family enjoys. Rent a good family movie to watch together and feel that your money was well spent.
For comedy try Jeff Foxworthy or Ron White.
I get flashbacks to statements made by Michael Savage earlier in the year just reading this. True, in part, or not, the statement is truly insensitive and speaks to his limited understanding of autism and it’s intricacies. I have to wonder how much more research he did to back up his OTHER assertions and statements. No wonder his book is yet to be published.
That makes no sense at all. Why do so many people assume that when your child is diagnosed Autistic you are lazy or making an excuse for their behavior. Ridiculous! Obviously these people are totally ignorant.
As someone who has excellent writing skills,but is otherwise a lot closer to the “Rain Man” model of autism described here,I see intolerance all around.I find that the “aspies” that dominate the blogs, message boards,etc. can be every bit as unable to comprehend what it’s like to be a lower functioning autistic,as the Michael Savages, Dennis Learys,etc .
When you are at the age,when you supposed to be starting school,and still are in diapers, when you are not running around naked,and crapping on the rug,that is, with a spoken vocabulary of a few words,and your only interests are standing spinning in a circle for hours on end,fondling your own s**t,and meticulously taking stuff apart.
It was behavior like this,that got me kicked out of kindergarten,at three different schools.
I had a father,who came from this Dennis Leary/ Michael Savage school of looking at autism.He used to whip me with a big belt when I eloped, which I still do,BTW,when I went on the rug,or whatever.
Eventually he realized I was too It took him many years to come around,but eventually he did.He saw me develop into someone who could write long eloquent stuff about everything from Studio One and Wilhelm Furtwangler,to advanced bonsai styling,and the writings of Lenin.
He has read enough stuff that I have sent him, and seen me enough times with major infections, that he eventually came around.He has been a Republican since the 50s,and last month,he told me why I should vote for Obama.
Beth here talks about “getting it”,but I have found that most of those who only know autism through Asperger’s don’t “get it” when it comes to the more severe forms of autism.They ask why you cannot work.They cannot comprehend what it is like to only be functional a few days a month, and spending the rest of the time suffering with dementia,seizures,and immune disease your doctors can’t explain.
They talk about how difficult it is for their kids to fit in and make friends,when I was their kids age,I had more pressing concerns,like toilet training learning to hold a crayon or pencil,or dressing myself.Each was a struggle that took years to master.You don’t care about social skills and making friends,when all you want to do is elope,and wander aimlessly for hours,with no way to communicate who you are,and what you are doing.There needs to be greater tolerance all around.
What would go a long way in creating this tolerance,and understanding,is if there were more parents of lower functioning children involved in the discussion,to provide a more balanced picture of autism.”Autism Every Day” came fairly close,and look how the aspies,and neurodiversity movement demonized that.
I’ve read the chapter (not the whole book, mind you; it wasn’t that funny) and it really WAS taken out of context.
I’m an Aspie and my nephew is possibly autistic. Nothing irritates me more than people who act like the only REAL diagnosis that involves the brain is plain ol’ batsh*t crazy. That being said, the chapter in question was NOT making fun of autistic kids or their parents. I know exactly the kind of people that the comment refers to, and I’m sure you have seen them, too. I’ve seen kids ‘diagnosed’ as autistic before they’re two. These kids don’t even have to learn to speak because their mothers or grandmothers wait on them at every moment so that all the kid has to do is point and grunt. Dyslexia’s another common one. Parents get their kids ‘diagnosed’ as dyslexic when the kid’s just barely learning his alphabet, simply because they aren’t learning as quickly as the next door neighbor’s kid, and we can’t have THEIR kid do anything more remarkable than OUR child, so let’s get something, some kind of diagnosis that will keep the neighbors from having bragging rights!
You know darned well that it happens. Frankly, I’m surprised people are so enraged. He’s spot on. Because of these bullsh*t diagnoses, I’ve gotten skeptical of anyone that claims to be dyslexic, or depressed, or ADD/ADHD, or bipolar, or just about any of these overdiagnosed, ever so convenient crutches that lazy jerks use to excuse their crappy behavior or bad parenting. That means that people who GENUINELY are affected by any of the things I listed are getting a more negative response, all thanks to the BSers.
Can you honestly tell me that you’ve never been infuriated when someone explains away their shortcomings with a ‘diagnosis’ that they made themselves off of something they read on Wikipedia? ESPECIALLY when you or someone you know and love is actually affected?
I also left out my response to the above poster.
I know that I don’t ‘get’ what it’s like to be autistic.
Aspies may not have the same problems as those with autism, but they still have problems, and those problems are nothing to sniff at. No, I don’t have any idea what autistic kids my age have to live like every day. And you know something? I’m proud to be an Aspie. I’m proud to have a family history of schizophrenia, too. It gives me an understanding of life that many people don’t have.
The point I”m trying to make here is this: don’t play the game of whose life is worse. Let’s not sit around arguing whether I am less miserable than you. Not only is it pathetic and pointless, but it’s just plain wrong. Imagine that, due to financial problems, a family in a fairly nice suburban home cannot afford to feed their children this week. This may seem insignificant to a child in a third-world country who’s starving and ill. But that won’t lessen the middle-class family’s hunger pangs.
Just because they are not your problems don’t mean that they aren’t problems.
By some kind of weird coincidence, today NPR had Terry Gross interviewing Ann Leary, Denis’ wife, about her new book.
Man, talk about mixed feelings. I still think his unpleasant book stinks and am peeved about the continuing justifications about being taken out of context–but Mrs. Leary was genuinely funny in the way keen observers can be, and so is her book. Of course she also seems to be sticking to that which she actually knows about.
@ Roger,
I just want to respond since you referenced me in your post. I worked for 2 years as a teacher’s aide at a school for children with moderate-severe autism and PDD (before I had children). I have worked with with kids who have seizures, are not toilet trained and are nonverbal. I do “get” the differences between my son’s experience and the experiences of those who are more affected. The point I was making is that, because those with AS or HFA, appear less disabled, people like Leary completely dismiss them altogether as spoiled brats with pushy parents.
As it turns out, despite the fact that my son’s AS is not obvious to the casual observer, he is moderately learning disabled and I question whether or not he will be completely independent as an adult. Not all Aspies are able to become entirely self- sufficient.
Kirsten…you are doing exactly what everyone is accusing Leary of. Assuming that you know more than you actually do and then making some pretty sweeping generalizations based on those assumptions. It’s not your business to decide whether or not someone else’s diagnosis is “bullsh*t” or not. And since you asked, no, I have not actually ever met someone whose child has a diagnosis of something and eyed it askance. I have not become “enraged” with adults with a perceived “spurious” diagnosis, either (why? Why become “enraged” over some perception that someone is using a diagnosis as an “excuse” for something?). I don’t know anyone like that, actually, and if I did, I wouldn’t be “enraged.” What, exactly, would that achieve?
I have, however, met plenty of people whose child or children obviously are “from France,” as our dear Susan at The Family Room might say, but the parents don’t realize it. I don’t get enraged about that either, nor do I say anything to them. They’re grown. They can look around them and figure it out. Or not.
Unless you’re living these people’s lives, as you so admirably point out, how is it that you’re suddenly able to determine what’s “genuine” and what is not, that they just ” read about it on Wikipedia” and then decided it fit who they are? How are you the person to determine if they’re right or wrong or justified? How would any of us have the right to become “enraged” over what another adult decides about themselves? You’re not that person, you don’t have that right, no more so than Leary does. Neither do I, neither does anyone else not walking in that person’s shoes. It’s just shooting off at the mouth with unsupported generalizations about things that people who aren’t wearing the other fellow’s shoes ought to just shut up about. Goethe said it best: “Let everyone sweep in front of his own door, and the whole world will be clean.”
Jesus…we are such a society, thinking that with the most limited information possible, information that’s not even confirmed, we can become enraged or furious or righteously indignant and try to tell other people how to live their lives, even as we know less than 0.01% about their lives.
The thing is, I’m not pulling this out of nowhere. I have witnessed it. I have had experiences with people who self-diagnose their kids as whatever best suits them, and even admit to self-diagnosis. I have seen three year olds ‘diagnosed’ as dyslexic, and I have seen high schoolers who go to Six Flags with their family rather than even attempt a homework assignment, their parents brushing it off with the excuse that they’re dyslexic, then become infuriated with teachers who give them a zero on the assignment. I’ve been babysitter for people who have a six month old baby and tell me not to worry if he’s crying and his diaper is dry, that I should just ignore it because he’s autistic and pay attention to their five year old. Maybe I’m just living in an area full of terrible parents and sick individuals (well, I already knew that much) but I’ve witnessed this, and it disgusts me. How are you or anyone else to know that Leary hasn’t had similar experiences, where he has had to listen to a teacher who’s furious because she’s just gotten off the phone with a parent that has told her flat-out, “Well, we give him what he wants when he throws a tantrum; he’s autistic.” Then, when she expresses surprise at only now being told something that would have been very helpful to know, the parent says, “Well, the psychologists we took him to said that he wasn’t, but my sister sent me the autism article on Wiki and it’s the only thing that makes sense.”
I have had to listen to my mother relate this story in a fury. She has been a kindergarten teacher for thirty years. It’s not the kid that she’s angry with. It’s the parents who are giving their kids a terrible childhood, one where they will never be prepared for what lies ahead of them, all because they feel that after reading an article for five minutes, they are more experienced than doctors who have devoted years to the subject.
I’ve seen these first-hand, and it incenses me that people can just give up on raising their children correctly as though autistic kids aren’t worth the effort to raise, so stamping that label on their kid will give them a ‘get out of parenting free’ card.
It still seems to me that you’re assuming unless you live those people’s lives. That’s really all there is to it. I have no idea where you live, but I live in a place where there are likely many parents who would like to “excuse” their children’s behavior or spoil their children or parent in ways with which I do not agree, yet I have not witnessed any of what you describe. I’ve taught thousands and thousands of people from the ages of five to 55, and I’ve never encountered what you describe, certainly not in the wholesale way you suggest. I can’t even think of an example right now. My experience has invariably been of the other variety, in which parents are in denial about the fact that their child needs some kind of help, and teachers are at their wits’ ends about how to manage that.
You ask how I’m to “know” anything about Leary’s experiences. I don’t. And guess what? Neither do you nor Leary nor I truly know what someone else’s experiences are, either. You find me some documentation, some evidence, some data, and then I’ll listen. But what you’re giving right now is sweeping damnation based on anecdote from your mother and your babysitting experiences. You’ve actually managed to find something that I get fairly incensed about. Congratulations.
You’re incensed, enraged. Your mother’s in a “fury.” I’ll leave people to draw their own conclusions about the information you offer.
You also seem to have changed your argument here, which is a bewildering turnaround that has somewhat muddied your initial observations. I don’t mean to make this seem personal, but what you say is very personal to people who struggle with their children’s issues, yet read comments like Leary’s and those of a legion of other know-it-alls on autism news stories about what crappy parents autistic children have, how they should just beat their children or discipline them better or stop making excuses for them. When you describe Leary as being “spot on,” you join him morally and ethically in these sweeping, generalized attacks.
(FWIW, Mr. Leary has stated in the press that his knowledge is based on knowing 2 families with autistic children.)
Whether someone is “faking” diagnosis is a matter for professionals and the people immediately involved, not idle speculation by the public and fodder for comedians, and even if this did carry a kernel of truth, it is a solution that would have its own baggage. To date I have not met anyone shopping for the diagnosis, but have no statement as to the generality of that experience.
Anecdotal and undoubtedly biased: Because my older daughter was a smart cookie when she was little no one could believe that her academic problems in school were due to anything but her laziness and distractibility or our laziness as parents After years of real agony for her and fruitless attempts at different organizational strategies and reward systems, and even medication, a full diagnostic panel determined that she had a specific but significant writing fluency and language processing problem that can be remediated but will always be handicapping compared to someone who does not have this specific problem. This eluded the district and us, frankly, for years because we were blinded by her abilities in other areas and which she used to try and self-remedy some of her difficulties. The positive piece is that we were finally able to address the problem specifically and apply correct instruction and supports which finally improved things. It is also helpful to her in making career choices.
Would we have chosen to seek this out–no, it was a convoluted process. Were we looking for a sticker to put on her to make it all easy–no. Real work still lay ahead.
But an external observer with nothing at stake might have very well interpreted it that way.
The point of the story–appearances can be deceptive and interpretations often tell more about our own biases than events.
Off to sweep my porch.
The argument remains the same. There -are- people out there that do this, and aren’t even ashamed of it. Maybe I’m just unlucky enough to live in an area filled with immoral people. When I relate my own personal experiences to others who live across the country, they are always thrown by the cruelty and lack of moral behavior that seems to run rampant here. Like I said, maybe I’m just unlucky. But these people do exist, people who use the word ‘autism’ and take advantage of the understanding of others. I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase, “once bitten, twice shy.” It’s possible that these people aren’t as omnipresent as I had previously thought. But the fact is that there ARE people out there using other peoples’ problems and adopting them for their own benefit. We’ve all heard of the ‘welfare queens’, right? And the existence of that handful of dishonest jerks makes it harder for those who genuinely NEED welfare to help them live from day to day. And yet, so many people nowadays hear the word ‘welfare’ and immediately get up in arms about how THOSE people are just lazy and need to get a job and stop sucking money from honest taxpayers. That’s the sort of thing that I’m seeing happen around me. People are becoming more like Eleanor’s brother than before. “If he were my son…” because of the people who play this up. Their children may need extra help, may even have some sort of problem, and yes, they could very well be autistic. But their biggest problem is their parents. Sure, sometimes people that look up ‘autism’ on wikipedia and decide that their kid has it are correct. What I’m angry about isn’t the low-level diagnosis or even the parents who think their child might be “a little autistic.” It’s the ones who take that self-diagnosis, don’t seek any professional assistance or help for their children’s development, and use autism as an excuse to stop parenting. To give up on their kid. To arrive at a parent/teacher conference, shrug, and tell the teacher that it’s not their problem. When a parent gets a school counselor to say their kid is autistic, or they decide it for themselves, like I said, it’s not a get-out-of-parenting-free card. It’s not okay to just have that be the end of it. If a child’s got a low-level diagnosis and the only ‘help’ they’re getting is their parent explaining away their actions with “S/he’s autistic,” as though that’s the end of the discussion and no one can do anything so why bother, that is despicable. I don’t know whether they do it because their child is autistic and they simply don’t know what they can do to help their kid, if they do it because they’re sick of parenting and don’t want the responsibility of addressing an issue with their child so they stamp them with a label and write it off as ‘not their problem’, or something else entirely. But I do know that I’ve seen it done, and it makes me sick. There’s nothing okay with letting the only help they give their child be the word ‘autistic’. Because people see the lack of action. And that’s when the belief forms that autism is a crutch for bad parents, or that it doesn’t even exist. THAT is why those people infuriate me so much. Because they cause OTHERS to do the ‘blanket’ generalizations. All it takes is seeing this kind of thing once or twice, and suddenly people expect that it must be that way with every autistic child. They don’t see a family trying to help their son or daughter. They see a family with a child that they don’t even attempt to raise or pay attention to. When you see something like that, wouldn’t you suspect that any problems with the child would be the cause of a lack of parenting? And I can guarantee you, the lack of parenting sure isn’t doing that child any good, autistic or not. But people will end up connecting autism with neglectful parenting in their minds when they see these people. That’s what Leary’s pissed off about, and it’s what I’m pissed off about.
I apologize if my replies are a little scatterbrained and unclear. I’m sure this must seem as though I’m jumping from one thought to another. As for my argument changing, I apologize again. I usually try to change my tactics if I’m not getting my point across the way I’m going.
I do want to address the last thing you said.
I do not think that autistic children have crappy parents. I do, however, know that crappy parents exist, and that they are not exclusively parents of non-autistic kids. And when someone has crappy parents AND autism, it makes the people you’re talking about think that they are right about autism just being bad parenting. Sure, there are crappy parents everywhere, but they aren’t going to see it that way, and it’s damaging. A single bad parent of a child with autism is like Miss South Carolina. Everyone assumes that blondes and beauty queens are dumb. They’re not all stupid, of course, but when someone like that comes along, it makes all of the intelligent blonde beauty queens look bad. And all it takes is one idiotic pageant winner and everyone will completely ignore the dozens, hundreds even, of intelligent ones. The same way that it hurts all of the dedicated and devoted parents whenever one crappy parent uses autism as an excuse to be an even crappier parent. They are the ones that CAUSE those sweeping generalized attacks.
I would never ever suggest that autism would be fixed by better discipline or beating. When I was little, my grandmother told my mother that she needed to spank me and it’d fix my behavior. My mom always tells me this story. She said, and I quote, “Mom, I could beat her until she was black and blue, and it wouldn’t do a thing.” For the longest time, my grandma didn’t understand that I wasn’t just a bad kid. I’m not angry at all parents of autistic kids. I’m just angry at the ones who perpetuate the mistaken belief that the parents are to blame.
Again, sorry if this is all over the place.
all over the place is ok…….
without his “shock talk,” would anyone listen to Leary; I suspect not, or not so much.
I hate to say it and in know it is not a popular opinion, but I agree with him. There are families that take advantage of services and the more those families take advantage and take what they don’t really need, it takes away from my son’s ability to get good, quality services. I know families that have in home therapy help paid for either through welfare or the school system, then they turn around and have the therapists do house work for them, paint their bed rooms, babysit all of their kids for them, it’s just wrong. Anyone who is thinks no one out there is taking advantage of the system is just delusional. I know people who have agreed to have a mental retardation diagnosis for their kid in order to get more, more, more, more……and these people are doctors and lawyers who can afford to HIRE a babysitter. I am a single mom, work full time and go to school, and there are people out there with A LOT of money getting way more than I do, just because they know how to manipulate the system. Well, all I can say is, shame on them.