Do more vaccines for NJ children mean more autism?
December 11, 2007 by Kristina Chew, PhD
Filed under Health
Yesterday, December 10th, a public health advisory panel in New Jersey voted to require all children who are in preschool or who attend daycare to get mandatory flu vaccinations. If the measure is approved by the state’s Health Commissioner next week, New Jersey will be the first state in the nation in which such vaccinations are required. The panel also voted to require two vaccines for middle school students, one against a “fast-killing strain of meningitis” and the other a booster against tetanus, pertussis and diphtheria, which is now already routinely given in first grade.
Not exactly surprisingly, advocates for “vaccine safety” and others are worrying that this could mean……more autism, and in a state with the nation’s highest prevalence rate for autism, 1 in 94. Notes the December 11th Star-Ledger:
“I’m gravely concerned about what’s happening here today,” said Assemblywoman Charlotte Vandervalk (R-Bergen), a sponsor of a bill (A165) that would allow parents to opt out of the vaccine mandates by filing a “conscientious exemption” form with the local health department.
“With New Jersey reporting the highest incidence of autism and a cause yet to be identified, we don’t know what will happen,” she said. “What happened to our freedom?”
Jersey already has the “highest incidence of autism,” prior to any child being required to take any of these additional vaccine. It seems a bit premature to (as this article in the Bergen Record suggests) correlate any increases in autism cases with the new vaccines.
Now, wait a minute….doesn’t NJ have such a large autistic population because people MOVE there because they have such great services? That’s at least the impression I got, that the high autism rate in NJ hasn’t got anything to do with vaccines or environmental “toxins” or whatever the latest theory du jour is, it’s actually because more people with autism are moving to the state.
I think that is one theory—-my own sense is that the level of understanding is high, plus there are lots of schools and supports. I wrote about it here.
Hello friends -
This is crazy.
What I find scary is that no one seems to be questioning if the flu vaccine actually works at keeping people from getting sick or not. Especially children.
By way of example, this seems to indicate that for children under two years old, the flu vaccine was no better than placebo.
http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab004879.html
Why not mandate that children under 2 be given injections of saline water? Much cheaper, and much less potential for side effects.
For children over 2, it worked ~30% of the time when exposed to the real world flu.
For adults, there are plenty of studies to show the same thing, or worse.
http://occmed.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/52/5/281
The flu vaccine seems to work pretty well in the lab, where they create a vaccine against a particular strain of flu, then expose people to it. Unfortunately, the real world is quite a bit messier and doesn’t always conform to the lab.
Take care!
- pD
I’m sorry, but I don’t see where anyone has indicated that the autism rate in NJ has anything to do with these measures which haven’t been put into practice. There are concerns that autism may be related to vaccines and parents are concerned about more vaccines being added to the schedule. They want to slow down the addition of new vaccines and they want to be able to opt-out.
That is all I see in any of it.
“the real world is quite a bit messier”
Yes, pD, it is. One wonders who we might not even know amongst this group had there not been any vaccines ever developed, as some of us wouldn’t likely be among the living. That’s just how messy the real world can be.
The Bergen Record story opens by noting fears of parents regarding vaccination and autism:
Assembly Vanderwalk specifically cites the high prevalence of autism in NJ children in regard to the new vaccines: “‘“With New Jersey reporting the highest incidence of autism and a cause yet to be identified, we don’t know what will happen.’”
I think the bigger issue is, are parents going to lose their power over their children’s health? I think it is terrible that my child would be FORCED to accept Any medical treatment-last month in Maryland, parents were threatened with JAIL if they didn’t comply with vaccination-we are starting to see fascism enter every aspect of our lives-I would never live in any state that had such a policy-if it becomes nationwide I will leave the USA, as the USA as the Founders intended will be finished.
I might as well preface this by saying that I don’t believe that vaccines cause autism, based on current research publications, so these thoughts are specific to the mandatory vaccination issue.
I don’t live in NJ, but here there are certain vaccines that children have to receive to enroll in state-registered preschools, except that there is a religious exemption process. So you have 2 options–either decide not to enroll in such a program, or request the exemption.
Are the specific objections esp. to the flu vaccine, because of the age of the children (and the somewhat variable effectiveness rate as cited by pD) or is it to all 3? (I am not recommending requesting exemptions; if I felt strongly that I wanted to opt out, then I would probably accept that my child would not be enrolled in preschool.)
They should probably anticipate that an increase in prevalence of autism in the 2-3 age group may be attributed to the addition of the mandatory vaccine, whether rightly or wrongly.
Hi Anon_two -
“One wonders who we might not even know amongst this group had there not been any vaccines ever developed, as some of us wouldn’t likely be among the living. That’s just how messy the real world can be.”
Hyperbole alert! Even more absurd especially when we consider the vaccinations added in NJ. By way of example, this study shows that in 2003/2004, 153 deaths were reported due to influenza:
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/353/24/2559
You were most likely to die if you were six months or older, ages for which the vaccination has been shown to be no better than placebo. Even if all 150 of these children had been vaccinated, there is only a 30% it would have resulted in them not getting the flu. So, had every child in America been vacinnated against the flu, we may have reduced the number of deaths from 150 to 100. Maybe. Except the 2 year olds. And the chlidren who had pre-existing complications.
Driving in a car is far, far more dangerous.
The CDC tells us here that between 1980 and 1995, there were 41 cases of diptheria in the US:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1508941
Why on Earth do we need to give booster shots to every child in new jersey for something that occurs, on average, less than three times a year with vaccination rates from 1980 – 1995? I am asking a genuine question, do you honestly believe it is a worthwhile application of resources to give every child a booster shot for something that has been documented 41 times over 15 years? Seriously.
Take care
- pD
If that was your criterion for leaving, you had plenty of reasons a long time ago.
I’m surprised that more news stories–given the onus that is supposed to be on journalists for “even-handed reportage”–do not relate, for example, a recent finding a 99% decrease in death rates from various diseases against which we vaccinate. Or the stories of recent outbreaks of whooping cough and mumps at universities that have led to these schools shuttering the campuses earlier and sending the students to their far-flung home destinations, presumably to introduce these illnesses into their communities. All it takes for those students not to have those diseases is a booster shot. Whooping cough kills tiny babies, and their only protection is community immunity. Mumps can make a child sterile, among other things. Of course, the even more dire diseases like polio or diphtheria, have even more dire consequences. No one remembers children lying in iron lungs or watching a sibling die of suffocation as they stood by, helpless, and that’s because we have vaccines. These used to be common memories among people of my mother’s generation.
I vaccinate my children, and I know there’s a risk. I also take risks every day that I drive them to school, send them into the community, put them on a school bus, take them on a field trip, or go on vacation, in many cases risks substantially higher than those conferred by vaccination. But I don’t vaccinate my children only for their protection; I do it because it’s a move in the direction for the common good, protecting tiny babies, pregnant women and their fetuses, and those children whose parents have chosen not to vaccinate, and the elderly and immune compromised. I do it for my children, yes, so that they don’t have to struggle for breath through a membrane growing over their throats or wrestle with life in an iron lung, but I also do it because of civic duty.
And I’ll say it again: no one has turned up any evidence of a correlation–much less causation–between vaccines and autism.
“the USA as the Founders intended will be finished”
Oh, yes, for the days when women couldn’t vote or hold property in their name and heads of households commonly owned slaves!
/sarcasm
“Hyperbole alert!”
No, pD, not at all. One of my earliest memories is of my sibling, in intensive care as a baby, with the whooping coughs.
It’s going to be interesting watching the fallout from the decision. My school district has made it very difficult to seek a religious exemptions; parents are referred to a lawyer, not a nurse if they week such an exemption.
I’m also waiting for what we’ll soon be reading about this in venues such as the Huffington Post…..
I am not surprised that so many commenters have such poor information regarding vaccines-pediatricians are NOT required to register all negative vaccine reactions, so we really don’t know how many children are harmed-women who regularly get flu shots have a higher rate of breast cancer-if a person does not have a robust immune reaction to a vaccine it doesn’t provide protection, so you don’t even know if you are protected or not because doctors don’t check the status of your immune system before giving the shot-studies in Europe DO show the correlation between vaccines and autism-as the FDA has been corrupted by Big Pharma, the research here is very suspect-often they won’t authorize the funds for good studies-there also is a growing concern that there may be a purpose to the early childhood diseases, in that they challenge the immune system and prevent more deadly diseases later in life, like cancer-so we may be trading a non-lethal disease for a deadly incurable disease like cancer-the manufacture of vaccines is also very questionable, as they are often made from contaminated sources-a good example is the contamination of the polio vaccine, that the government never took responsibility for-98 million doses were contaminated with sv40(a monkey virus that is considered the most lethal cancer-causing virus known-they use it in cancer research because it causes cancer so quickly)these contaminated doses were given worldwide to the baby boomers and sv40 is now being detected in the tumors of rare cancers like osteosarcoma and mesothelioma-the hepatitis B vaccine being mandatory for infants is also just a moneymaker-it is for sexually transmitted diseases and is only effective for 7 years-I guess it is for the sexually active newborn.
I absolutely don’t believe vaccines->autism at all. However, I don’t believe the flu shots appropriately defend the body against enough influenza strains to be worth it either.
I don’t believe the gov’t should be in the business of forcing this particular vaccine on people. I don’t like the idea of “if you want gov’t services, you better do as they say”. That reeks of social programming and nanny-state.
There’s been quite a bit of discussion here about vaccines and autism—regarding the Cedillo trial, for instance—-I remain curious about how the New Jersey government will follow up this new requirement.
OK-I am not opposed to vaccinations if they can come up with a logical test to prove to me that my child’s body will benefit from it. My son (with autism) had every scheduled vaccination til age 4 and got just about every virus he was supposedly being vaccinated for and not until we as his parents said enough and took a stand and looked for ways to undo the damage that was caused from these vaccines that were supposed to make him healthier did he start to get better. We work daily to build up his immune system through diet and whole food supplements-kids are picky eaters. He goes to 2 schools on a everyday full of sick kids with “allergies” and who knows what else. As a Preschool teacher I am horrified on a daily basis at the number of children that suffer daily from chronic runny noses and coughs-spreading viruses around to everyone-and the general public seems to think this is acceptable because their pediatrician said it is “allergies”! Yet somehow it spreads! You want a quick fix-let’s look at these kid’s diets! Parents need educating and need to realize what they feed their kids makes a difference in how their child’s body is able to protect itself and fight off disease. The “lunchable”, “fruit” snacks, hot dogs, chips, gold fish,(I could go on forever) are not in my opinion food. It is prepackaged product full of chemicals, additives, preservatives and dyes/food coloring that in my opinion should be banned from children’s diets. If the government can force families to inject their children with known viruses without knowing each child’s complete medical history then I think I as a parent and care giver should be able to request that people quit loading their kids up on garbage then spread their germs and viruses to me and my son! If the parents and government really wanted to do something to improve the quality of life and reduce the amount of sickness in this country they would provide a medical wellness program that allows each family to receive full medical testing from qualified specialists and information on what their child needs to provide an individual wellness plan. What we are doing now OBVIOUSLY isn’t working but I guess somebody is making a profit so they will make sure that we as parents continue to suffer so they can make a buck!
No lunchables here———
Goldfish crackers are actually all natural. The cheese is yellowed with a common spice.
pD–
How do you account for the fact that cases of diptheria have dropped to the level you quoted? I guess one can argue about the efficacy of the flu vaccine, but the other vaccines have had a profound effect on disease rates.
Here’s some more of your so-called hyperbole. When I was 2, I had orbital cellulitis, a nasty infection of the eye socket. It was pretty rare then, but another child was in the hospital with me with the same condition. I lived (with the help of some major IV antibiotics) and sadly, she died.
Orbital cellulitis has almost been eradicated because of the introduction of the Hib vaccine. I was lucky, but the vaccinated kids of today are luckier still.
If the measure is approved by the state’s Health Commissioner next week, New Jersey will be the first state in the nation in which such vaccinations are required.
I have yet to hear the hyperbole supporting the draconian enforcement of the influenza vaccine, but I will be more then willing to post it later against the vaccine.
I am so glad to be living in a state where the law supports the decisions of parents in regards to their health and well being.
It’s been a good place for us to get Charlie the education he needs.
Hi Grenouille -
“How do you account for the fact that cases of diptheria have dropped to the level you quoted? I guess one can argue about the efficacy of the flu vaccine, but the other vaccines have had a profound effect on disease rates.”
We are talking about BOOSTER shots, not the initial vaccinations. We’ve got completely miniscule rates without the booster, right? Does it make any kind of sense, financial, logistical, health, or whatever, to give every person in the NH, or the US a booster shot against something that has such a low frequency without such a booster?
Lets say everyone gets the booster shots, and prevalance drops in half, and there are 20 cases reported in the next 15 years. Barely over one case per year in a country of 300 million people. What is being mandated in NJ is not different than this, is it? How many cases can we realistically expect to prevent if every kid in NJ gets the booster? 2? Maybe 4? All we had to do in order to get there is give every child in an entire state a booster shot. Can’t you see this is absurd?
Still, however, disease will persist. Should we consider another round of booster shots? If everyone got a booster shot every year, we could probably reduce it even further. Does this seem like a reasonable course of action?
It is the equivalent of developing a vaccine for mad cow disease, or something else that literally strikes one in millions. I’m not saying it can’t be done, just that it doesn’t make sense in terms of resources. We can find far more efficient ways to promote health by spending money and time gone to booster shots for diptheria.
“Here’s some more of your so-called hyperbole. When I was 2, I had orbital cellulitis, a nasty infection of the eye socket. It was pretty rare then, but another child was in the hospital with me with the same condition. I lived (with the help of some major IV antibiotics) and sadly, she died.
Orbital cellulitis has almost been eradicated because of the introduction of the Hib vaccine. I was lucky, but the vaccinated kids of today are luckier still.”
This isn’t hyperbole, but a kissing cousin, the appeal to emotion.
In any case, it has gone from rare to almost erradicated. Great.
At what cost? If we made every car out of solid steel and redesigned the engines such that we couldn’t drive more than 5 miles an hour, we could eliminate automobile related deaths by close to 100%. Yet, as a society, we have determined that the cost of doing so is outweighed by the benifit.
For some reason, this is never taken into account when discussing vaccines; or when it is, you are designated as ‘anti vax’, against the common good, whatever.
What’s more, the regulatory agencies have proven time and time again that the task of insuring things are safe is a very difficult one, one subject to human failings. I’m not faulting them for failing per se; it is very difficult, but I am faulting them for saying things have been proven safe, of effective, when the opposite is true. Recently the influenza vaccine was shown to be ineffective in the older population, yet for years the opposite was told to us again and again. This doesn’t bother you?
There simply are no studies showing a comparison between people who got an older vaccination schedule (~ 10 shots by age 2) with those that get todays schedule (~ 26 ? by age 2?). These studies HAVE NOT BEEN PERFORMED. Pointing this out is not heresy, and is not saying all vaccines are bad.
Take care!
- pD
In any case, it has gone from rare to almost erradicated. Great.
At what cost?
This is an interesting argument. The Hib vaccine I got for my child cost something like $20 and a few minutes of my time. My experience with cellulitis cost me two weeks in the hospital plus thousands of dollars worth of care and drugs.
The vaccine helps against a host of things, some rare, some not so rare. I just happen to have experience with one of the more rare.
I am not sure I understand your car analogy. Are vaccines the all-steel ultra-safe car or the element of risk for greater benefits?
Hi grenouille -
“This is an interesting argument. The Hib vaccine I got for my child cost something like $20 and a few minutes of my time. ”
Your hib vaccine cost $20. But how many vaccines were administered across the country? It took a few minutes of your time once you arrived at the doctors office. Did you leave work to get there? How much time was involved with the layers of beauracracy?
I want to be clear, I’m entering this argument against the new mandated booster shots and influezna shots; I need to know more about infant hibB shots before speaking directly towards those any further.
But lets talk about the mandatory booster shots; this is where the cost / benifit analysis really makes it clear that this is a fiasco for everyone except manufacturers.
Lets say that the diptheria booster also costs $20. Lets make some wildly optimistic assumptions.
1) We vaccinate every child entering grade school in NJ with the booster shot for diptheria for the next 15 years.
2) In the next 15 years we will have double the number of diptheria cases than documented in 1980 – 1995; 80 cases.
3) All of these 80 cases will be in NJ.
4) The booster shot is 100% effective in preventing diptheria; that is, not only is the booster 100% effective, but all of the diptheria cases will be associated with children who enter grade school in the next 15 years.
5) There are 100,000 children entering grade school in NJ each year.
6) There will be absolutely zero complications from any of these shots.
Total costs of shots each year: 100,000 * 20 2,000,000== . Two million dollars dollars per year. Lets write off the time and beauracracy costs involved for now.
What is our expected payoff? Each year, there will be approximately 5 fewer cases of diptheria. We have spent ~ 400,000 to avoid a person coming down with diptheria.
If you start removing any of my assumptions; the vaccine is not 100% effective, we need to give boosters to children outside of NJ, the costs of time are incorporated, the rate of diptheria does not double, and it becomes even more difficult to justify this program.
Please, please explain to me how this makes any kind of sense.
Take care!
- pD
With all of this said – we need to come back to the fact that there is no solid proof at all that vaccines – any of them, cause autism. This article spells things out really simply and easily.
http://autism.emedtv.com/autism/autism-and-vaccinations.html
At the end of the day, it is purely a freedom issue. It just shouldn’t be mandatory.
Reports about the new NJ vaccine measures have been dominating autism headlines today—-so autism headlines are about a topic that is not necessarily or actually relating to autism and to the needs of autistic persons throughout their lives……
I don’t want to get into an existential argument, but freedom has a symbiotic relationship with responsibility, and how far does that extend in a society.
If we want to be free to opt out, then we have to accept the responsibility in case our choice has consequences that we did not consider, intend or even necessarily want, and the consequences that our choice may invoke on others, and vice versa.
Hi Reagan –
“I don’t want to get into an existential argument, but freedom has a symbiotic relationship with responsibility, and how far does that extend in a society.
If we want to be free to opt out, then we have to accept the responsibility in case our choice has consequences that we did not consider, intend or even necessarily want, and the consequences that our choice may invoke on others, and vice versa.”
True enough.
But how on Earth can we hope to apply responsibility towards this program of flu vaccinations and booster shots?
For example, say I chose not to get the flu vaccination for my two year old, and he gets the flu, and gives it to someone else. What then? We know that the flu vaccine is no better than placebo for those of two years of age. What, exactly, would you recommend happen?
Lets say my son is five, and then the vaccination would work for him 30% of the time. How are we to determine that my son wouldn’t have caught the flu anyways? There is a 2 in 3 chance that he would have even with the vaccination.
If vaccinations could be considered 100% effective, and without complications, the choice between societal responsibility and freedom would be much clearer. However, the reality is light years from this.
Take care!
- pD
PD,
For example, say I chose not to get the flu vaccination for my two year old, and he gets the flu, and gives it to someone else. What then?
Simple,
“someone else” would have to prove that the stain they have is the same strain as your two year old and “someone else” was vaccinated and the vaccine covered that particular strain in that season.
No problem!
Sorry,
Forgot to add the at the end of the message.
(sarcasm) at the end of the message
School Vaccination Requirements:
Historical, Social, and Legal Perspectives
Center for Law and the Public’s Health
at Johns Hopkins and Georgetown Universities
Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
http://www.publichealthlaw.net/Research/PDF/vaccine.pdf