Mental Illness And High IQ Scores: One And The Same?
September 6, 2007 by Alicia Sparks, Mental Health Notes
Filed under Diseases & Conditions
Yesterday I asked you to take an IQ test; not because I want to see how smart you all are, but because I want you to have some loose idea of your own IQ before I tell you the story of one man’s IQ and how it affected the entire first part of his life.
I want to note that this is not a professional case study – which, after reading, I’m sure you’ll agree! This story does, however, include the “facts” as they were presented to me.
This man – we’ll call him Bob – was born in the mid to late 1960s, so mental health care wasn’t quite what it is today and parents didn’t have as much information about about mental health – especially the mental health of their children – as they do today; his parents were taking him to a psychiatrist by age two.
Bob continued to show signs of “mental illness” throughout childhood and adolescence. By his early teens, the mental health professionals he saw during this time didn’t seem to “help,” i.e. change his “strange” behavior. His parents grew frustrated, and even though he showed no signs of learning disabilities, by age 14 they enrolled Bob in a special school for the mentally handicapped.
From age 14 to age 18 he attended this school. Shortly after he graduated, he and his longterm girlfriend (who was not thought to have a mental health condition) broke up. Bob was extremely distressed. His parents assumed his sadness was some sort of mental breakdown, so they sent him to a state mental institution.
Once Bob entered the working adult world, he faired as any other adult would. He lived on his own, became employed, had romantic relationships, traveled, etc. Because of the stress and confusion brought on by the events of, well, his entire life up until that point, Bob sought the services of other mental health care professionals – professionals who could not find anything “wrong” with him.
Bob is now an adult in his late 30s/early 40s. Aside from a mild, situational depression due to the recent death of his best friend, Bob still functions “normally.” He doesn’t see any psychiatrists or other mental health professionals, and he isn’t on any kind of medication for mental illness. Bob doesn’t feel anything is mentally “wrong” with him at all, and he attributes anything he feels about his mental health in his childhood and teenage years to the way his parents reacted to him.
At some point during this story, Bob’s IQ was tested. It was over 170. Despite varying theories on IQ scores and what they mean, an IQ of over 170 is still thought to be “genius,” or close to it.
Now, I realize many folks with mental illness have high, even extremely high, IQs. However, most of these folks also still display symptoms of whatever mental illness they have – whether it be bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, autism, etc. According to no one but his parents, Bob showed no signs of a mental health problem.
Could Bob’s behavior as a child simply been that of one with great intelligence? Did Bob’s brain activity confuse his parents and the staff of the school for the mentally handicapped? Was Bob’s mind lacking the stimulation it needed? Given the fact that mental health care of the 1960’s left much to be desired – compared to that of today – could Bob’s intelligence have been repeatedly confused with mental illness?
Is it possible that Bob slipped through the cracks of the mental health care system – only, in the reverse?
I’m not a psychiatrist; I can only speculate about this situation. I want to know what you all think about it. Chime in. Let’s discuss.
Image: morgueFile
As the subtitle of my blog states–There has never been any great genius without a spice of madness.
I firmly believe there is a strong connection between mental illness and intellect. Just look at the greats throughout history—John Nash, Einstein, Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln, Van Gogh, to only name a few.
As for “Bob”–I just don’t know–something had to be going on for parents of that era to take him to a pdoc. Mental illness was really stigmatized then, not that it’s any better today.
Could he have outgrown his illness as he got older—unlikely. The probable explanation is he learned various coping behaviors along the way.
Psychiatry is not an exact science–yet. There is no lab value or test to be done to clearly define it’s existence. It is all observational.
I feel as “Bob” ages the coping mechanisms will begin to fail him and the true diagnosis will eventually emerge.
That’s just my 2 cents worth.
The probable explanation is he learned various coping behaviors along the way.
Excellent point. As far as what he did or didn’t do during that time (or now), I don’t know. I didn’t get those details, so it’s very possible he learned how to act to “get by.”
I’m divided on his parents and their decisions to take him to psychiatrists, put him in a special school, etc. At the same time that it’s very likely that something had to have been going on for parents of that era to take that kind of stigmatized step, it’s also very likely that they didn’t think his behavior (which may or may not have been caused by an unchallenged high intellect) wasn’t “normal” (of course, that’s assuming he was acting in a way they considered “abnormal”).
It’s all very complicated, isn’t it? One thing is for certain – despite the stigma mental illness carries, the times have definitely – overall – changed.
(What I’d love to know is how he performed in school, and whether or not he had trouble learning that led his parents to believe his was mentally-handicapped.)
I am interested in this blog. I was, actually still am in the upper echelon of IQ scores. I had a difficult time growing up and fought depression and sadness most of my life. I contribute much of this from a lack of understanding from those around you when you are growing up. In this situation you do not seem to fit in anywhere. I have read several hundred psychology books and can only ascertain that they do not know what they are talking about. I have a handle on my mental health and emotional IQ. through a melding of the many ideas and lessons I read as well as self experimentation.
I have read several hundred psychology books and can only ascertain that they do not know what they are talking about.
Ha! I love it.
And I agree wholeheartedly about the “lack of understanding from those around you.”
What people do not realize, is there is a certain level of shame in discussing their childhood and adult disorders. Upon reflection, as a child, I was extremely bright and I did exhibit signs that would easily be recognized now, but where generally ignored in the 70’s.
Although I joined mensa when I was 19, with an IQ of 159 (Stanford Binet), I had scored substantially higher when I was in the fifth grade. My parents were divorced before I was 5, my mom had full custody, remarried several times and we moved alot. In the third grade, I was advanced a grade for several weeks, and was eventually moved back to my own grade, only because I had an older sister that didn’t like the idea I was in the same classes with her. (sounds corny, but my mom agreed with my sister).
While many of my teachers did recognize I was very bright and had me apply to alot of places, even though I was accepted, the fact we moved so much and the unwillingness of my divorced parents to cooperate, they always turned down those oppurtunities.
Between Kindergarten and 6th grade I would probably have been considered borderline autistic. I had a hard time making friends, because I could not relate to most of my fellow class mates. Instead I would read or try to teach myself as much as possible. I do believe the last time my dad said, I can’t bring you to place X, every Saturday, I kind of gave up on bothering with excelling in academics.
I would intentionally not read assigned work in middle school, because that was the only way any test they would give me was challenging. But at the same time, around that age I started to develop some sleep disorders, and some vast mood swings. Basically from the ages of 12-19, I could appear to be normal, but I could go 3-4 days without sleeping, I would suffer sleep paralysis 2-3 times a month. I could go from Happy to Sad at the drop of a pin.
High School, during that time, had become a joke, I scored higher on all of the standardized tests they gave than anyone else, and I basically looked at it as a waste of four years, to stay in a place that can’t possibly teach me anything. Heck I still remember a few times a teacher marked m answer as wrong, and I had to prove to them, my answer was correct, and they just did not understand the subject.
For the most part in High School, I tried to learn how to interact with people. Learn how to make friends, not try to sound like a nerd, learn to talk about inane stuff.
The last 20 years of my life, I have lived through infrequent to frequent sleep disorders, I try to avoid the term Bi-Polar episodes, but that is most likely the correct diagnosis, in a sense, my everyday life can be a chore just to wake up.
In general I can cope with it, it is easier when you are surrounded by very understanding people. 2 years ago, I became so withdrawn, I only went to work, I would come home, and do nothing, this went on for 4-5 weeks. I did not answer my phone. I don’t know why that happenned, but I do know, during that episode, a good friend of mine came by my house, I answered the door, and he just said hey, we miss you, if you need anything let us know.
okay, I am done ranting for now
What people do not realize, is there is a certain level of shame in discussing their childhood and adult disorders.
I long for the day we can wipe out stigma altogether.
I am very happy for you to have understanding people in your life. It’s such an important factor when we try to “cope with,” “deal with,” and just basically live our lives without being consumed by whatever condition it is we have.
I’m curious – It’s difficult to “choose” our peers when we’re young. As an adult, have you found people to whom you can relate better? If so, has that helped any?
Responding to Walter, I must say you have almost perfectly described my experiences in life. I took the online test and it was as I expected. I grew up in a family that made me feel ashamed of being smart and not fitting in socially. This has resulted in some pretty deviant behavior on my part. I destroyed opportunities on purpose and “dummed” myself down in an attempt to fit in better. I used drugs and whatever else was necessary not to be lonely. I have experienced a lot of rejection in my life because of my I.Q. and abilities. I don’t deal with it well. The problem is, I need other people in my life, but I don’t seem able to just be myself and get that. Anyone have any suggestions? Comments?
In all due respect, those with high IQ’s are not prone to mental illnesses. I have an extremeley high IQ and I was also stigmatized by my family, but I do not have a mental illness. I was considered weird, dysfunctional and even mentally retarded by my family of origin. I suffered from depression and low self esteem for years, but now I have overcome these as I have finally taken the steps to recognize that I have a high intelect and require a high level of mental stimulation and challenge. I suffered from a psychotic break last year due to a medication issue. Durring that time I lost almost all of my remarkable mental capacities, but I recovered completely. In retrospect, I realize that there is not correlations between a high IQ and mental illness. Those with mental illnesses usually have a much lower IQ than normal, but can make it seem like it is higher through feelings of grandiosity and even a level of certainty which leads others to seem them as being more than what they truly are capable of. We geniuses are offten eccentric, but eccentricity is not a mental abberation.
I believe that if you are highly intelligent that you would realize that there are many intelligent people with serious mental health issues. I think that mental illness does not make people less intelligent than average simply because they have a mental illness. I think because of the stigma of mental illness, we tend to have a bias to look for evidence to prove that mentally ill people are less intelligent than normal. This is not unlike saying women have a slightly lower iq than men, which I also believe is bias, when in fact, I believe the highest recorded IQ is that of a woman. I think that we all need to look at the way we record data so that it can be truly unbiased. I also believe that if you are treated cruel or as a leper, then it would be more in favor to prove their expectations are correct by doing poorly on an iq test to comply rather than challenge an establishment that may treat you less favorably, because their theories of what a mentally ill person is proven wrong.
@ Jeffrey – Thanks for chiming in!
No need for the “all due respect,” (unless you were referring to someone who’d already left a comment), because I don’t believe people with high IQs are prone to mental illness. I was just posing some questions based on “Bob’s” experiences. I think we do have to pause, though, and consider the number of intelligent and creative people who do/did have mental health problems (or, reportedly have/had them). Did their talent bring on mental illness, or did their mental illness bring on talent? It’s interesting stuff. And, as a sidenote, Patricia Cornwell once said it’s “not unusual for great artistic people to have bipolar disorder” when speaking of her own bipolar disorder.
But, do I think there’s some unspoken rule about highly intelligent people being prone to mental illness, or people with mental illness being more likely to be creative or artistic? No.
@ anonymous – You’re absolutely right, there are indeed many intelligent people with serious mental illnesses. Look at John Nash, for example.
Intelligence understood in the sense of a quantifiable descriptor of the intellectual and creative capacity of a person, is also a measure of a persons psychic complexity.
There seems to be to my best knowledge no scientific proven significant correlation between a high intelligence and the manifestation of clinical psychic illness.
Intelligence nevertheless certainly is a complication for diagnosis and treatment of many psychiatric conditions.
Since the definitions of specific psychic illnesses are based on what the scientific community agrees upon, they are based on the manifestation of an illness in an average patient.
High Intelligence in opinion allows for the developments of potentially very effective coping strategies that can turn out to be a two sided coin. On the one hand such strategies constitute continued functionality on the surface, on the other hand they can prove to be barriers for the work on the underlaying issues for both the patient and the therapist.
I have often wondered what can cause a person with a high IQ to have mental health issues. Family, hereditary, social context or perhaps a brain with just a higher degree of neurochemicals than the average person. Many very inteligent people have tremendous focus. The main neurochemical responsible for memory and focus is Dopamine. Is it higher in these men and women, or is the neurochemistry completely different, but just not in the range which would push a person into Mania. Correlations and coincidences!
@ Being Earnest – Interesting thoughts, especially the bit about developing coping strategies (and coping strategies that can actually prove to be barriers for the patient and his/her mental health professionals).
@ Jeffrey – That’s a good question. Is it higher in people with both mental illness and high IQs?
This is interesting as I was searching the three words high+IQ+disorder. I thought of this after taking some half decently respectable online IQ tests. I have always known I am “smart” and have often been called a genious, but do not like these labels as they somehow require more of my mental abilities. recently I found out that as a kid my mom thought I would never move out, and was trying to find out what disorder I might have. She thought I loved being alone all the time.
The truth is I HATED being alone all the time, but was socially oblivious, only wrapped up in my thoughts, not being able to ‘figure people out’. People made no sence to me and were entirely unpredictable, yet I longed to be normal. I spent long hours in bed at night thinking about math, but couldn’t find any way to make myself say “hi” to anybody. I wasn’t a smart kid, all I could do was think, right? Well as I got older I got more and more frustrated at my brothers inability to “think” as I thought, and my inability to act unreasonable as everyone else did. Aspergers was one option. I am sure many people who have been “diagnosed” with this are similar to me.
What I am getting at is no matter what “studies say”, I was often depressed, thinking I would never function, and other people thought so too. weather or not there is any true “disorder” associated with high IQ, I believe IQ can definately have a huge effect on externally and internally percieved disorders.
@ Aaron – I wholeheartedly feel that having a high IQ (being really intelligent) and perhaps surrounded by people who don’t have IQs as high, can make a person feel isolated and perhaps lead to feeling depressed.
On the Asperger’s note, have you ever moved forward with finding out any more about that? Talked to a doctor or anything?
Mental illness must be viewed from a bio-psycho-social perspective, as must high IQs. High intelligence represents major or slight abnormalities in the brain, as does mental illness. Could the two become or already exist co-morbidly? Absolutely. This has already been shown. So to state that one does not believe that this is possible is a foolish statement to make. One extra point to be made is that it well known among psych/psch that high intelligence presents its own set of challenges in the treatment setting for those already diagnosed with mental illness. But what do I know? I am only a neuroscientist who is also bipolar.
@ J – Thanks for chiming in! Has your own IQ presented challenges in the treatment and management of your bipolar disorder?
@Alicia-
Has my IQ presented challenges in my BP treatment? Yes, indeed it has. As mentioned previously, the bio-psycho-social model of the co-morbid conditions High IQ/BP is different in many ways from strictly BP models. The social aspect of this model seems to contribute most to my own treatment, as well as many others with this condition. The above threads mention feelings of intellectual under-stimulation/isolation; inflated/deflated feelings of self-worth; and many others. These socially-induced situations can lead to mal-adaptations and inappropriate coping mechanisms such as becoming under- or over-achievers; self isolation; turning to drugs/alcohol; becoming work-a-holics, and a whole host of other mechanisms. This, in turn, directly impacts treatment by conflicting with highly successful lifestyle recommendations such as regular sleep/eating patterns, staying on medication, being around positive people, and balancing work/relationships/self care.
@ J – A lot to wrap one’s brain around, so to speak!
Hi
I just wanted to say that building a wall between social and biological conditions and saying that these two, each from its own side, might change a person’s behaviour, could be somehow not accurate: Our environment is perceived, and more important, interpreted, solely by biological structures. This allows different reactions depending on the person in a group of people at the same environment.
Obviously, humans have similar reactions to a certain situation, because evolution has lead to the development of the “best” responses, at least until now (the ones that make our genes “survive”).
However, biological differences also lead to different interpretations of the environment and consequently to different responses.
High IQs are partly caused by biological characteristics: The higher, the more different.
It’s logical to think that, somehow like people with low IQs, people with high IQs can’t cope well with the skills that life demands. Not because they don’t have the ability: The only problem is that they have too much.
For example, being highly intelligent can make you think about all the solutions of a really difficult maths problem. Let’s just think about everyday life: What if you can think about the future in probability terms, knowing exactly which option is less risky?
It’s not always an advantage: Fear can overtake you easily when you see people acting as if they were blind but without a stick!
So, it’s not exactly:
((environment –> response) + (biology –> response)) = total effect.
It’s more like:
((biology –> perception + interpretation of environment) + (biology –> response)) = total effect
(We have to think that two persons with similar perception + interpretation abilities can have different responses due to different biological response paths).
Well, that’s it. Sorry for my english, I’m not a native english speaker
@R-
Agreed. I apologize for not going into the bio-psycho-sociological model for those with high IQs/mental illness. What you essentially explained is the model itself, formulated it, then gave a supporting argument for the formula based on the model I failed to explain. Good work! Perhaps between the two of our threads posted someone will gain some insight into the model and perhaps even use it to explain certain aspects of their own lives.
PS-
The model does not attempt to “build a wall” between social and biological conditions. It is called the “Bio-psycho-socio” model because it incorporates the biological/psychological/sociological aspects of one’s life and how these three aspects interact in those with high IQ/mental illness co-morbid conditions.
OK, I’m glad our posts support each other
Hi Alicia…
I just found your blog and wanted to say hi. I’m 47…almost 48…and depending upon who you ask my IQ is on the order of 136-147. I struggled as a child within family and socially, as a teen, and due to religious affiliations which have not alot to do with things other than it was terribly oppressive to my being “normal” and made me feel even more out of line with people in general, I’ve struggled as an adult. I do suffer from mental illness which as yet hasn’t really been defined though neurological studies have confirmed depression and anxiety disorders, serious sleep disorders, and maybe some psychosis in there topped off with severe suicidal tendencies. It’s tough because my psychiatrist doesn’t even understand me….I guess when I think about it I could be one…could have…and I think that a big part of our problem (I guess that is folks with high intelligence) is that people can’t understand us in good terms let alone to try to figure out what is wrong with us when we are being tortured in our minds with illness. Medications don’t work well and it seems even worse as situational depression jumps in too because again people distance themselves because once again they don’t understand us on a good day…
I empathize greatly with Bob and others who have felt this…..I feel trapped in my mind…it won’t stop working even though at times I want it too badly but then again, if it wasn’t for what was in my head how long would I last alone?
I think you are on the right track Alicia….I do believe there is a link between intelligence and mental illness….what it is or why I don’t quite know yet…I’ve spent alot of time with “A Beautiful Mind”…I am no John Nash but I see hauntingly similar pathways in my mind and life and find comfort in that….I just wish that others in the medical community could understand and really be able to help us…I worry that they never will….and then where will we be….?
Individuals who are diagnosed with schzoid personality disorder and multiple personality disorders, almost always tend to by highly intelligent.
Some of history’s most creative people were bipolar. There very well may be a correlation between having a high IQ and being mentally ill, but there are those with lower-than-average IQ’s that have mental illness too, so I guess it goes both ways.
I see the link between mental illness and high IQ. However I believe it is largely due to either misdiagnosis or the affect of living in a ‘normal’ world with and exceptionally high IQ.
I have an exceptionally high IQ. I have suffered from mild mental illness such as anxiety which I do think is more common in the gifted. My family think I’m weird and even think I have bipolar disorder. If I went to a psychiatrist they may in fact diagnose me with some serious mental illness but that is only because they are ignorant of what is going on for people with very high IQs. I think it’s the bipolar diagnosis that is to be treated with extreme caution. Gifted people have intense responses, heightened senses and stronger reactions to stimuli.
See Dabrowski’s Overexcitabilities.
There is a good book called “Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children’.
Gifted people often need less sleep. Their minds are very active and process information at great speed at times and slower at other times depending on the nature of the information. They come up with many ideas usually on a daily or weekly basis and unfortunately for them it is physically impossible to achieve all of their ideas/dreams/aspirations. They need to choose just a few and try to be satisfied with that. It’s not easy.
Basically the idea that gifted people are mentally ill is very damaging. Obviously a diagnosis of psychosis or schizophrenia requires that there be some irrational thinking, hallucinations or the like. I’m not saying such a diagnosis is rubbish. Of course those mental illnesses can co-exist with a high IQ just as they can co-exist with normal IQs.
If you have intense responses, keen sense of smell, or hearing, have trouble blocking out noise, are very emotional, feel very happy at times and quite down (briefly) at other times, disillusioned with your work because you learned how to do the job in 2 weeks, disillusioned by the lack of insight of others and injustice then you are just a normal person with an exceptionally high intellectual ability. As long as your so called mental illness doesn’t include running down the street naked or buying properties at auctions that you can’t pay for or other irrational behaviour or thinking then it’s unlikely you have a serious mental condition – despite what some well-meaning psychiatrist might tell you.
Keep away from alcohol and drugs which help to numb the mind. They are sometimes used by gifted people as an escape. What you really need is some very heavy intellectual thinking. You have to study courses (difficult ones) and go online and read books seeking information constantly to satisfy your need for learning and engaging in new and interesting information. Seek out others who are also smart….not just smart but gifted. There’s a BIG difference. Join high IQ societies like Mensa or others. Meeting like minds is the best.
Thank heavens for the internet!!!!
I’m no shrink but that’s my say.
I am beginning to think that those with high IQs, who are often diagnosed with “mental illnesses”, are simply different – and that scares people. As a result of fear of what they do not understand – a different way of looking at things – high IQ has been “medicalized”.
Put more plainly – I am not sure that high IQ is related to mental illness. I think “mental illness” as a label is applied to those we do not understand – in particular to high IQ people.
So to all of you who have been diagnosed as “mentally ill”, your only real problem may be that the average doc does not understand you!
I concur with the majority here. IQ mensa tested at ~130, blah blah. Having looked at this from many points of view, I have concluded the following:
1) IQ is approximately a normal curve, scoring above 130 sets you higher than 97% of the population, so ~9 million in the US.
This means if you had 300 kids in your grade during your teenage years, there were only 9 kids like you. The chance that anyone lived near you (within walking distance) was virtually nil. You had almost no chance to have friends that related to you.
If you were/are above 145, less than 3 kids in your grade.
2) Retarded is relative, anyone below you in IQ appears/”is” retarded in some way and to some real degree. The greater the gap the greater the retardedness, therefore nearly *everyone* you meet is retarded if you are high IQ. Good luck making friends with retarded people.
3) The probability that your parents were of sufficient IQ and education to understand your capacities is also virtually nil. If you had “Parents of Nil” and you are reading this you already know they could never meet your minimum needs, hence coping, not with illness, but with retards.
4) Dumb people don’t hire/date/marry smart people. Oh we all have jobs, boy/girlfriends and/or spouses but only because we have spent time shielded them from our capabilities. If they glimpse the abilities too often they go on the offense, usually subliminally/surreptitiously/or subconsciously. Regularly on the lookout for hiding the facts to disseminate the “acceptable information” does little to support stability.
5) Mental heath people are virtually never above average IQ. Even average people have trouble justifying working in a low wage field that is virtually the “stone knives and bear skins” of thinking. I feel sorry for each and ever one of them. I suggest avoiding the “nonproductive priestwizards of ignorance” at all costs and to not take anything they do seriously.
How could it be possible that, likely alone, with a low probability of comparable/understanding friends, with parents that could never “get it”, but simultaneously being required to sit along side comparable retards year after year in school was “mental illness” to be avoided.
Do you think that a lone, normal IQ person, sitting in classrooms for 12 years of development, along side of 70 IQ people (or lower), would come out stable?
The problem is the ignorance of the average in understanding the vast difference IQ makes in comprehension, speed of analysis, wholistic interpretation of events, etc, etc, (ETC!) as you all know. No one can make adjustments they do not understand, and the “regular” people can never understand.
Good luck to all of us getting through this inbalance of nature, hehe.
Imagine living in an environment where the population worshiped the square, and there was no convincing them the circle was superior.
You have just entered the world of the genius in its most simple form.