On Some Comments about Cho Seung-Hui
April 20, 2007 by Kristina Chew, PhD
Filed under Health
Mention of Cho Seung-Hui possibly being autistic has been circulating on the internet throughout this week. Some charged exchanges have arisen on some blogs in regard to this; fears have been expressed about what such a connection—-of autism to what happened at Virginia Tech on Monday—might mean for the public perception of autism, and of autistic people in particular.
I’m inclined to think that reflection is called for here more than rumor. Autism is mentioned in regard to Cho in an Associated Press story (April 20, 2007):
Cho´s great aunt, who lives in South Korea, said Thursday that because he did not speak much as a child and after the family emigrated to the United States, doctors thought he may be autistic.
“Normally sons and mothers talk. There was none of that for them. He was very cold,” Kim Yang-soon said in an interview with AP Television News. “When they went to the United States, they told them it was autism.”
Neither school officials, who have his educational records, nor police who have his medical records, have mentioned such a diagnosis this week. Autistic individuals often have difficulty communicating, but such a diagnosis would not necessarily explain his violence.
KWTX (Texas) reported that Cho’s 81-year-old grandfather, who lives in South Korea, said that he was “”well-behaved’ as a child in South Korea, but his parents were worried about his speech problems.”
The Associated Press story also notes that Cho, who emigrated to the US in 1992 at the age of 8, did not speak English well in high school, after living in this country for some time:
Once, in English class at Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., when the teacher had the students read aloud, Cho looked down when it was his turn, said Chris Davids, a Virginia Tech senior and high school classmate. After the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho began reading in a strange, deep voice that sounded “like he had something in his mouth,” Davids said.
“The whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,´” Davids said.
Stephanie Roberts, 22, a classmate of Cho´s at Westfield High, said she never witnessed anyone picking on Cho in high school. But she said friends of hers who went to middle school with him told her they recalled him getting bullied there.
“There were just some people who were really mean to him and they would push him down and laugh at him,” Roberts said. “He didn´t speak English really well and they would really make fun of him.”
You may have read this this press release, whose title is AutismLink Reacts to Diagnosis of Autism in Virginia Tech Shooter and which states that “Cho Seung-Hui was diagnosed with autism as a child.” Whether Cho actually received an actual autism diagnosis is not clear, at this point; some news stories say that he “was autistic,” while others note that there were concerns that he “might” be autistic. It is Cho’s “speech problems” (the nature of which is hard to ascertain from brief news reports) as a child that are being highlighted in regard to autism, and a number of other criteria are part of an autism diagnosis.
(Questions have also been raised about the way in which Cho’s race has been discussed. The New York Times reports on Korean-Americans‘ response—and fears of a backlash.)
Before saying anything more, I am going to wait for more information.
Another fine display of compassion and empathy by someone who is clearly narcissistic and sociopathic.
I misread his last post. John van V isn’t just calling Aspergers/Autism shameful or morally reprehensible, he’s calling it outright evil and sick.
He came to a blog whose responses are populated by people with autism, and calls autism the number one problem in the world.
He is, by even the most tolerant standard, a troll.
Don’t poke the troll, kids.
Gee, this sounds like a witch hunt to me.
I am beginning to hypothesize that witch hunts are yet another product of aspergers.
WITCH HUNT, read that over few times.
What I am confirming here in this sick interaction is that there is an sasociation of aspergers with cruelty that I hypothesized when I realized that apsergers is the absense of the emotional communication facilities: spindle and mirror neurons.
The research I am basing my hypothesis is the discovery of these cells in humans, apes, whales, and elephants.
People with aspergers cannot be empathic– which is becoming obvious here from the insults and abuse I am receiving.
Instead of trying to show me how I am wrong you are insulting and threatenging me. This is because you lack empathic facilities. Instead you are trying to BULLY me, or maybe even prosecute me, into believing that because I am trying to apply critical inquiry to this important disease, I am an evil person.
As I said this is degrading into a witch hunt– now I am understanding how those women were burned at the stake.
From the neurological data, and from the writing on this list, people w/ “aspy” as you like to call it, have no empathy. As empathy is the basis of morality, people with “aspy” have no morals.
You are clearly demonstrating for me this simple math here. I believe that if this conversation where happening in person, I would be physically attacked, as by a gang. But I am not afraid of you– and science marches on towards truth.
Under protection laws in nearly every country, the use of lethal force in self-defense is legal when attacked by a mob. This in the US is called the defense aggravated assault.
What the parents of the vitims of bullyism don’t realize is the the bullies likewise lack empathy, meaning they have aspergers.
It is a fairly widesread disease, and I am becoming increasingly convinced that it has been the basis of some, if not all, of the abuse I received when I was a homeless youth.
You people, whether you have this disease or not, are simply dangerous people, and backed to the wall I would deal with you as such.
Plus, I think there is something wrong here. I do not think that the people here on this list who claim to have autism or aspergers, actually have it. Autism is a form of mental retardation.
You people form words pretty clearly; I think you are just bad people pretending to be good.
Any other insults go ahead– I am not afriad.
The asperger gene needs to be stopped !!
Free the memes !!
So, BlueNight, Media Frenzy, Phil, Kristina…
Which educational approach is best used with sociopathic bullies? The overly NT? The slightly psychotic sounding troll who spreads gross misinformation?
And can they be identified early by their hairdos, as troll dolls can, or do they need extensive workups as is required to find other differences in wiring? Is it fair to call such wiring ‘human wiring’ when they are so quick to toss other humans out as non human, diseased, and evil just for existing?
Discussion should, of course, be about said personages without them.
I guess my work is done here.
If you really have aspergers, as you claim, then aspergers is in fact the basis of cruelty.
I hope this page stays here for future reference.
I would give some salutation, but it would of course be wasted, as you only know insults and pain.
To you friendliness is only an attractant to attack.
You are anti-empathic
She says it better than I can.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c5_3wqZ3Lk
To: John van V.
I am actually truly concerned for you and I hope you seek some mental-health help. Really and truly. If you are not trolling or trying to make some point to be used elsewhere, I think you are taking the pain inside yourself, which you cannot face, and are projecting it on to another group of people (who are innately kind). You mentioned “friendliness” but it certainly did not feel that what was what you were offering. I hope for you to be healed of the deep pain that you are holding within yourself. Please talk with a doctor or counselor or cleryperson.
Some of the comments recently posted here, as those of Mr. van V., too well illustrate the purpose of this blog: To critique and debunk myths and misinformation about autism. It is unfortunate that many outdated and cruel stereotypes of autism still exist: We have a lot of work to do, and we can do it.
I’m just glad that we (autistics) aren’t trying to change the stereotypes alone. Allies are a good thing.
*plonk*
(You young ‘uns probably have never heard that sound: *plonk* is the sound that a good old-fashioned 1970s-vintage ASCII-text Usenet News reader program made (in the mind’s eye — we had to use our imagination!) when you plopped yet another troll’s Usenet address onto your killfile. A killfile was a list of people whose posts your newsreader would simply skip and not show you. And Lovaas thinks he invented “extinction”. Ha.)
In the *ear’s* eye, Phil!:-)
Just kiddin’, I learned my music visually, m’self.
If that makes any sense.
hi Phil
*plonk* indeed!
another useful usenet edict was “do not feed the trolls,” an invocation to ignore those posting provocative rubbish. If they cannot get a rise out of people they go elsewhere for their entertainment.
Personally, I allow idiots one post on my blog. Then I use the delete button.
If Cho Seung-Hui had autism that is no excuse for being the monster he was. I have autism. I was born in the 1960’s at a time in the United States when absolutely NO early Autism specific professional intervention services were available. I was not diagnosed with autism until 1968 and then only because, my grandmother kept the pressure on the local medical establishment till they found the answer for my problems. Even with the diagnosis my doctors had nothing to offer me growing up. I had to survive with autism all alone in school environment filled with people I did not understand. When I was growing up people at school were nothing less than sadistic in torturing me. Until I was old enough to get away from my tormenters I had to just deal with the pain they inflicted on me as best I could. When I reached age 12 I often had to leave home and go shopping after school just to avoid the torture of neighborhood children.
After years of abuse at the hands of others of course I was filled with anger and bitterness. This so called civilization typical humans have created had shown me nothing but the crappy side of the street. Unlike Cho Seung-Hui I spoke up for myself, not like it helped because others just used twisted whatever I said to skillfully use my words own against me. In time as I entered high school as an autistic child grew to hate all aspects of this so called humanity that from my experience seems anything but humane. Humanity is worse than a pack of Wolves at least Wolves kill to eat to survive. Humanities children hunt in packs to hurt the weak just for the sheer sport involved in destroying someone disabled because they are considered weak by members of stupid packs of youth. After years of abuse I was antisocial to the maximum so in some ways I understand Cho Seung-Hui’s situation. From an early age however my grandparents saw that I was becoming extremely antisocial and they started making me aware of it at every turn.
My grandfather, grandmother and family started talking to me intensely forcing me to confront my antisocial natures drives and desires to hurt others who hurt me. Over time I learned from television shows like Star Trek and Lucan that had easily understood positive moral messages. Exposure to the idea that humanity could be better over time encouraged me to build a moral guide that attempted to value human life. Trust me it was not easy to overcome the years of antisocial patterns that built up in my systems because of the torture I suffered with over many years growing up. I needed psychatric and psychological help to overcome my most vexing antisocial issues. Indeed it was not until after I almost killed a man over $5 he stole from me that I realized violence was a drug like toxin in my life I had to be rid of. I attempted to get help for my autism inspired antisocial issues but there is none available. I had to learn to manage my antisocial tantrums and it took me 38 years to do so on my own with just a six months or so of psychological help for an hour a week and just one visit to a psychiatrist thanks to Maryland Vocational Rehabilitation Services.
How many more guys like Cho Seung-Hui are out there who have like me have been tortured for years by this saddistically brutal thing typical humans call civilization but who unlike me have had no training on how to manage their autism inspired antisocial issues. My strength is that thank God Almighty my grandmother harped on every antisocial idea and fight I had over the years as I grew up so I am at least very aware of my intensely antisocial \ or what I call my feral natures. Even I can not beat or control my autism inspired antisocial attributes the most i can ever hope to do is manage my antisocial attributes. Unfortunately the pain the horror and the torture done to me by this so called civilized society as an autistic child growing up seems irreversable, hence I can not control it and instead am force to merely manage it in ways that insure my inner demons never get free. This is a ugly life to lead, my always being so painfully aware of feral drives lurking just below the calm surface of my mind. Managing my inner demons is a constant chore an activity I must do whenever I am out and among typical humans. Thankfully my grandparents taught me forgiveness. Thankfully I learned from TV of all places how to love people enough to enjoy despite my tortured past. Living among humans is in now ways easy for me, my every moment among people is a constant challenge to keep my inner demons at bay. Yes I have autism. I also have cerebral palsy, copolcephaly and other disabilities. Who knows which disability caused my antisocial issues. Autism rarely occurs alone. People with autism often have co-hort disabilities. Autism is not the issue. I am sure there are many more Cho Seung-Hui’s out there with autism and perhaps other disabilities. The question is how are we going to help those other Cho Seung-Hui’s who like me had no autism support growing up. I was lucky I had my grandparents to saw and forced me to confront my antisocial issues in an autism context. What about those autistics young in the 1960’s and 70’s and 80’s still alive who like Cho Seung-Hui who apparently had no awesome grandparents who gave them needed insights when growing up abused for being autistic.
Cho Seung-Hui was a smart man, his presence in University proves that. I went to college as well. In college I had to work in teams with others and meet other challenges that forced me to face and manage my remaining antisocial autism tantrum related issues. I did not easily adjust to working with typical humans in teams but, with hard work and psychological care I did learn about people and change. Cho Seung-Hui was smart enough to know he needed help. Problem is even when you seek help as an autistic adult good mental health help is so hard to come by once you reach adult age like Cho Seung-Hui and I. Recently I went over a rough patch in my job, so I tried to get autism specific autism related professional help and I have good health insurance. Despite having great health insurance I still could not get professional autism specific help as an autistic adult. The employee health unit at work was unable to get me autistic specific health. The insurancecarrier was unable to get me autism specific psychological help for adults. Most autism related help is aimed at helping chiildren which is good but, where do adult autistics like Cho Seung-Hui and I go if we reach out in need help functioning in a hostile world.
There is no excuse for what Cho Seung-Hui did. Murder is always horrible but this society shares full responsibility and blame with Cho Seung-Hui since society continues to see fit not to offer psychological help to autistic adults in need. I mean excuse adult autistics for not being cute enough to warant the special attention lavished on autistic children. I wish autism and its after effects just magically went away after reaching adulthood like services for autistic adults do. Autistic adults need help. I learned from painful experience when autistic adults ask for help we do not get it. I got a doctor who knew nothing about autism trying to treat me for depression and her cure almost cost me my job since the medicine she prescribed caused the antisocial outburst I spend my life trying to manage. Before you blame autistic adults like Cho Seung-Hui society must make professional help resources available so we can get desperately needed help before things once again take tragic turns. Try getting autism specific help as an adult and you will find in most places none exists and those painfully few professionals who see autistic adults are not taking new patients. Cho Seung-Hui was wrong and evil for murdering all those people but, if Cho Seung-Hui had autism society is equally to blame because, it offers no help to autistic adults in need. Until society offers professional help and support for autistic adults the next tragic murder caused by an autistic adult in need of professional help will happen again and again and again and again! I ask society if it really wants to prevent another occurance like that with Cho Seung-Hui to please create support programs for autistic adults.
I do well now. I have a nice job. I have learned to like people well enough to work with them doing the day. I have the odd loud tantrum every now and then at work but they do not escalate to antisocial levels because I work hard to manage them. If I feel a tantrum moving past my ability to manage it I go home and engage in sleep, relaxation skills and positive resolution based self talk. I do well finding odd new ways to manage my autism but my successful autism management systems were developed by me alone with NO THANKS TO THIS DAMNED CRUMMY SOCIETY WHERE ADULT AUTISTICS IN TROUBLE HAVE NO WHERE TO TURN IN TIMES OF CRISIS! Then FINALLY when one of us autistics snap, lose it we autistics who had no professional help growing up become societies new monster scape goats. This so called civilized society is a crock! A truly civilized society would help autistic adults as well as helping autistic children! Yes we are monsters when autistics kill but, we live in a society of full of monsters who knowingly provide no professional support services to adult autistics even when we cry out in desperate need pleading for psychological help as I did and whose fault is that!
To John van V., several statements you made in #146 show that you are intensely concerned about uncovering the etiology of Autism and that you may believe that you are on the right track. Perhaps you don’t mean it this way, but you seem to be saying that Autistic persons have one-sided emotions–that they have either bad or no feelings for other people. For instance, your statements and quotes of your readings as follows, are examples:
“Those who lack mirror and spindle cells lack empathy. Those who lack empathy do things that appear to be cruel, because they cannot conceive of other people having feelings. They lack the most important human facility, what Goleman calls “emotional communication.”
“From what I have read, the conditions of Autism and Apserger’s disease are caused by the absence of these two neurons. I provide about six pages of reference material with the above paper. I start with Aristotle and go through to de Waal.
“It seems logical to me that someone who cannot feel for other people and cannot conceive of their pain, and will do things to them that may be very hurtful, despite pleas.”
You fail to mention that “someone who cannot feel for other people and cannot conceive of their pain” probably do not feel for themselves either, which negates them having the ego to “do things to them that may be very hurtful>” If anything, persons who have Autism, especially ones like my adult daughter, had to be taught to express pain when physically hurt, and had to be taught to understand when someone was insulting or taking advantage of her. It has been our one great fear–that of so-called normal people lacking empathy. And I really prefer the term, “emotionally and socially independent” rather than “lacking . . . emotional communication.” But that is my choice, which describes our personal experience.
Since you have such interest, please try to get some first-hand information, perhaps from parents, who are at this stage of the game, the experts. When my daughter was four, I was told by experts that she was functioning like a 4-month-old baby because she could not stack blocks. I submit to you that she “would not” stack blocks because they were different sizes, colors, and were in mixed numbers. One thing that seems to be prevalent in Autistic persons is that they like perfect order. She stacked blocks but only after she could define same colors, same size, and same numbers of blocks for each color. She would not mix them. The experts dismissed this because it was not identified in their test instruments.
Also, in your statements, you give Autistic persons too much credit for displaying extreme emotions, seeming to retaliate. I would not worry about my daughter so much if she could protect herself in this way. Since so many people are being identified with Autism, I realize that my story is but one among many, many. I will read what you and others have to say so that I will learn. I hope you will also.
For WOLF: You are so expressive. It sounds like you have gone through a lot of trauma, and have learned to understand that you are being traumatized. I would be very happy if my daughter understood her situation like that. Perhaps you will write a book about it so that other people will learn your version. Nevertheless, I hope you will rethink your feelings about people not understanding, such as: “we live in a society of full of monsters who knowingly provide no professional support services to adult autistics even when we cry out in desperate need pleading for psychological help as I did and whose fault is that!” I have seen other parents get angry when in public and people stare at them and their children–Autistic or otherwise disabled. Keep in mind that Autism was only discovered around 52 years ago. College students are just recently learning about it. If you go into a Special Education college classroom right now, only around 2 out of 20 students will know anything about it. What does that tell you about people in neighborhoods, public and private agencies? Just 10 years ago one (1) in 10,000 people had autism; now the figure is one (1) in 150 persons. And just look at this blog or message board–so many different versions. Please don’t get angry because people don’t know. They can’t help their ignorance of this any more than you can help being Autistic.
It has helped me and my family to simply stop and explain the condition to people who genuinly seem interested, and we have turned the heads of some who have seemingly been cruel–simply because they didn’t know. Doing that, I believe, helps to provide a safer environment for my daughter. Sounds like you really have a story to tell, and I think you ought to seek out audiences in your community–schools, colleges, churches, etc. to share it.
Serebra
Serebra,
“get some first-hand information, perhaps from parents, who are at this stage of the game, the experts.”
What, then, are autistic adults?
Ironically enough Serebra I am doing exactly what you have suggested and have been doing so for the last few years now. Just Thursday, April 26th 2007 I gave a talk to teachers, concerned professionals and others at Howard Community College. The conference was called “Project Access”.
The Purpose of Project Access
The purpose of Project Access is to improve the delivery and outcomes of postsecondary education for individuals with disabilities. Project Access is designed to significantly facilitate the transition of high school students with disabilities into postsecondary education, to increase the success rate and retention of freshman students with disabilities at Howard Community College, and to improve career counseling and job placement services for students with disabilities.
To learn more about what I did there go to the link below.
http://www.howardcc.edu/students/academic_support_services/project_access/index.html
Surfice to say my talk was about autism and how I dealt with the challenges of college as an autistic man with 12 other disabilities. So yes maam Serebra, I do try to help others. I will be giving another talk to folk as the keynote speaker at a forum on autism held by the following.
Conference Sponsors
Georgetown University Center for Child and Human Development
University Center for Excellence in Developmental Disabilities
Quality Trust for Individuals with Disabilities
District of Columbia’s Developmental Disabilities Council
District of Columbia State Policy Council on Family Supports
This event will be held on June 15th 2007 at
The Holiday Inn Georgetown
2101 Wisconsin Avenue, NW,
Washington DC
I am not trying to give myself plugs here. I just want you all to know I am serious about helping others who are disabled and who have autism. I want you all to know that despite my disabilities, despite my problems understanding others and being understood. I do reach out to help typical humans and autistic folk despite the fact that when I need help or a friend there is none for me.
I won’t sit and cry over the fact I do not get help I need. I figure the only way things have any hope of getting better is for me to work with typical humans and tell them of our needs as autistic adults. I have also found all hate is a life destroying toxin. I spent most of my childhood living in hate and it helped no one and almost destroyed me.
I am writing a book as well. I have been having no end of problems writing a book because, my systems of thinking and presenting information to audiences is so different from that used by typical humans. When I write everything comes out sounding like the most boring technical manual you have ever read. I have found by painful experience people do not like my writing style at all. When I write it is like a document written by a cold emotionless automoton, I had a lady tell me she has read legal breifs that stirred her passions more than my writing.
Now when I speak without a prepared narrative I can light up a room. When I speak from just bullet points or topic sentences I invest myself in what I say on a level that just lets me own the room. It is as if my passions only flow when I am speaking from my heart without prepared text. Unfortunately for me speaking without prepared text is frightening. I like the structure having a prepared text speech offers me but I must admit my written word is drop dead boring.
I have decided to write my book by speaking it into a tape recorder then having it transcribed verbatim into document form. I will very lightly edit the resulting book and then send it up for sale. I just wanted to share with you and the group that I do attempt to speak out to build bridges between the autistic and typical human worlds. I just wanted to show you I am not all bombast and hot blood.
I was just sort of mad because, if Cho Seung-Hui had autism my heart goes out to him as well as those college students he killed. I guess I feel his pain if he like me had the version of autism that puts us at risk for antisocial trantums the poor dear heart. If you want to see some of the other autism related events I participate in go to Google and put the following in the search.
“Wolf Dunaway” You will see I try to advocate for disabled students, enhance positive autism awareness all as part of my commitment to leave the world a better place than it was when I was born. Thats my mission. I am not bitter nor to I hate typical humans. I keep the antisocial demons in my heart at bay by actively fighting to give to autistics coming up today better opportunities than the wall to wall pain and torture I had growing up. My mission in life is to hopefully heal the world not murder it! I guess as an adult autistic I am sad that in this more enlightened age so few people seem to realize adult autistics need help support and guidance too! Maybe before I die I can help the world understand adult autistics need help too if I can do that one thing all the pain in my life would have been worth it!
Thanks for being a way cool and supportive person Serebra you have the Wolf’s respect!
Thanks for telling us about your talk and your experiences—it’s very, very much appreciated!
Zaecus,
My adult daughter (33) said it best. She said: “Mom, when I grow up–in my mind and thinking–I will read lots of books and . . .” I agree with her because she apparently realizes that being an adult, or being adult, means a lot more than just age. However, I think we will both know when she has arrized. Meanwhile, she will allow me to help in her development.
Adult for a girl used to be age 18, and for a boy, 21, when they were able to work, make safe decisions for themselves, and live independently. I don’t know how that translates for “normal” individuals these days because things have changed so much. But I believe, for persons with disabilities–particularly cognitive, the age is not a factor unless they can also work, make safe decisions for themselves, and live independently. Many learn to do so. What do you think? Perhaps Cho should not have been out there on his own. Maybe he was not a true adult (based on my description).
Serebra
“get some first-hand information, perhaps from parents, who are at this stage of the game, the experts.”
What, then, are autistic adults?
Thanks for sharing about your daughter—and for your question—
Wolf,
I believe we may all be very proud of you. I certainly am. Since you will be reaching so many people, and can be so openly expressive, keep in mind you will also be the expert, and the teacher. Good luck on your presentation.
Serebra
Dr. Chew,
I didn’t expect anyone else to be up this time of “morning.” Thank you for starting this conversation. I am amazed at the responses, and am glad I found this site. Thank you.
Serebra
In my opinion, which may or may not count since I am autistic and do not live alone (health problems but they aren’t relevant as I am autistic, right?)…
Autistic opinions should count FIRST in making decisions about who and what we are, our futures, et cetera…autistic children have a right to be consulted about their desires, and so do adults.
Parents are “looking in”. Parents, sorry to state the obvious, DO NOT have first hand experience of what it is like to BE AUTISTIC. Parents have SECOND HAND experience. They may even have 2 1/2nd hand experience–that is, living with someone and guessing. That isn’t being in an autistic body and brain. It is living in close vicinity to possesser of such and guessing. Bettelheim did that too, and didn’t he do just a fan-friggin-tastic job?
Oh wait. No. He didn’t. He came to conclusions about refrigerators and rejection of the breast and poo obsessions. He didn’t get ONE THING right in The Empty Fortress-which I read soley so i could list everything inaccurate and get my library to get rid of it.
Let’s try again. WHO should be consulted for first hand experience?
WHAT kind of experience of AUTISM (not of being an autism parent, 2 entirely different subjects) do parents have, if they too are not autistic?
Serebra,
I, for one, am very proud of you for sharing your opinions.
If there is any truth to the suggestion that Cho fell into an autism-spectrum range of functioning, then it may have been that this condition served as a background factor in shaping his rage. But I am much more struck by a striking set of clues in his writings and utterances which revolve around the theme of sexual abuse.
I worked as a mental health counselor a number of years ago and knew individuals who had been molested by family members or relatives. Cho’s two plays from his creative writing class, which were published online, sound a lot like the feelings of sexual abuse victims. They are filled with tremendous rage as well as fear. In both plays a male authority figure perpetrates rape on an innocent kid. Graphic language depicting the abuse is repeated over and over, with the rest of the plot clearly revolving around it. I want to be careful here not to accuse any of Cho’s family members, I `m just articulating a strong impression I get. I’m sure other mental health workers who have had experience with child victims of incest, especially young children, will immediately see the similarities between the content of Cho’s plays and the shame, paranoia and rage that are commonly experienced by incest survivors. Couple this with the isolation an autie experiences in NT social environments, and you end up with a potnetially explosive mix. I know this is just one way to look at it, but imagine that he doesn’t give a damn about literary merit and his two plays, ‘Mr Brownstone’ ‘Richard McBeef’, are his way of trying to get out a message to anyone who might care, without giving away too much to his family or teachers or other students. Sexual abuse victims are extremely distrustful of others and guarded about their ’secret’. Without some form of therapy, their hatred and terror of the one who committed the abuse can become generalized: from the perpetrator to other adult authority figures, like ‘Mr. Brownstone’ the teacher, and beyond that to other students. Note that Cho, in his MSNBC harangue, said Virginia Tech students had ‘raped and sodomized’ him.
In the case of this young man Cho, I was specifically refering to the possibility that he suffered from Asperger’s Syndrome, not just conventional autism.
Clearly this unsociable individual was highly intelligent, albeit ina dysfunctionhal way.
I wonder if he had lived, coild he use this said syndrome as a defense, not insanity, but as a mitigating factor?
DEE
Suppose that you are autistic and from a non-english country. You get teased because of your voice and accent, you avoid communication because it causes you anxiety, autism debilitates your ability to interact. You go through several years of abuse while bullies realize they can have a field day with your introverted personality, your foreign background, without a sense of humor and a poorly modulated voice.
You function horribly in all environments because you have impaired ability to make eye contact, or receive instructions from others because even you can’t acknowledge what you have been instructed or you have a poor sense of intuition and cannot comprehend what is said, like when the someone yells out an instruction that requires interpretation, your autistic mind only interprets it in a literal manner. You then get frustrated because you get yelled at you for not doing what’s told.
Life becomes miserable because you cannot do anything useful because you can’t do what’s asked of you.
You lose your sense of interaction with your environment. Unlike the introverted man who withdraws himself from the environment, you go even further to the point in which you isolate yourself from the world and rediscover your own one. You become a dreamer and you recreate that dream world inside your own mind.
While you occasionally need to function in the real world, it is the harsh unforgiving world that doesn’t treat you right, and one that you don’t have much time for.
Your boundaries and defense system become irrational as a result of that little dream world inside your mind. From your dream world point of view you think you have sound coping mechanisms for dealing with the real world, but really the thought mechanisms are irrational and completely insane.
“Society is failing me, they had better correct this, or they will pay the ultimate price”
These people have different coping mechanisms; They give others the opportunity to correct the problems they are causing, and while these people do get many opportunities and chances to correct their problem, if they don’t do whats required of them, implied, hinted, insinuated or no hint at all, they pay the price. That is the irrational thinking from the Aspergers condition.
I am joined with the belief that Apsergers and Autism were a problem for Cho. “You had a hundred billion chances and ways to have avoided today”, as signs of his irrational thinking.
There was no middle ground in his thought patterns, he emphasized a zero tolerance approach in an attempt to extract his demands from the society that was failing him. I feel some of this was relevant to his actions, and to consider the reason he wore sunglasses inside. If it was so that he could avoid eye contact then that act demonstrated a significant characteristic of autism.
I poignantly brought this to the governor’s and DMHMRSAS attention the moment the words “Cho” and “autism” showed up in the media. I pointed to all the warning signs in the article to the Department of Mental Health, Mental Retardation, & Substance Abuse Services and asked “Where were YOU then?” I received a form letter, no answer response from DMHMRSAS and Gov Kaine. I also received NO response to the follow up question “What are you going to do to prevent this from happening again in Virginia?”
So far all I have seen are more gun control laws that don’t address the underlying problem whatsoever.
Tim, you make some fantastic leaps of logic that absolutely nothing to due with autism – not to mention potentially damaging those of us who are struggling (and somehow making it) out there in society.
Tim I am autistic and have been for 48 years now. Tim I have no PhD behind my name. Tim I am not a social worker or in the health professions. However Tim I know what I am talking about when I say the following.
Tim dude your examination of autism is fatally flawed because it makes one assumption. Your logic assumes Cho Seung-Hui’s autism experience is Typical. Anyone who knows autism at all understands that there is no typical presentation of autism. Each autistic individual is like a light in the night sky different and unique. Your logic attempts to offer a standardized programmatic understanding of autism when none can ever exist.
I have made a most excellent map of my own autism experience and for me it is likely the most accurate reflection of my life long authism experience on earth. Tim my autism experience is unique to me no other autistic person will have exactly my presentation and responses to autism and life challenges.
If you are not autistic your ideas merely show what you think autism is like. If I look at Cho Seung-Hui and share my opinions, my ideas just give you insights on the parts of Cho Seung-Hui ’s autism experience I have limited insights and understandings about. Remember autism is a spectrum disorder as such there are many unique powerful presentations of the autism life experience of which mine and Cho Seung-Hui ’s are just two.
If your logic were right Tin we could pick any two planets from the solar system and base all our planetary science on what those two planets have to tell us. Likewise we could pick any two points of light in the night sky and based on what our studies tell us base all our understanding of cosmology on what those two points of like tell us. In both cases we would be ill served becausem we would be missing the majority of the science behind what makes the universe tick.
Likewise if we looked at your picture of autism and even added my own we would still be getting only a tiny almost useless slice of the total autism spectrum experience. Autism is bigger than any one man or any two autistic men. The autism spectrum life experience is far too vast to fit on all the paper ever made. My autism experience can offer insights and thats why I share it but, speculation on what made Cho Seung-Hui do what he did is something only he knew. The only source of why any autistic person does anything is that particular autistic person themselves.
Tim when you dare think ideas and theory you offer explain something vast complex and personal as autism you fool only yourself. Tim more importantly you do an almost criminal dis-service to all of us autistics and those who care for us who are trying to build bridges of hope and understanding between the autistic and typical human worlds.
Tim thanks for your well meaning attempt to help but please understand your attempt fell far short of its mark sir.
Yes I agree on the issue of atypical thinking, the condition is not the same every time, people tend to label what a person’s psychology is, I mean you can go to a psychology website , lookup articles and exercise black and white thinking and think what you choose to think.
Cho is a fucking hero. We need more men following in his footsteps. These fucking cunts are always complaining about equality with men, but no one ever mentions sexual equality in that women can get sex whenever they want and men have to go for years without sex, particularly if they are shy or awkward. This shit has to change! Cho was a poor sexually frustrated kid who tried as best as he knew how to get laid, but women would have nothing to do with him. If you dig deep enough through his history, you will find that right before the incident, he was denied sex by an escort. The problem is all these fucking feminists taking over now. All the women want to sleep with the top 5% of the upper echelon of men, leaving the rest alone without sex. Women dont understand that for men sex is a life need third to food and water. Being there myself, I know what lack of sex does to one’s mental state. Of course, you never hear about such things in our feminized society. I just wish Cho had taken out his anger in a sorority house or a victoria secret or something like that. Mabey then america would have been awakened to a much deeper issue in our society. Everyone talks about equality in our society, but no one ever talks about equality in being able to get sex. Well, it will happen again and with the sexual starvation of men in our society I am surprised it does not happen more often.
Hell, we all have alittle autism in us, we were all bullied in school some time or another. we didnt shoot our classmates in the 70’s , i sure miss the 70’s!!!!
Well, it’s hard to tell why anyone does this.
(In the 70’s, when I was in HS, the President of the Senior class of our town’s other HS, a big man on campus, climbed up on the roof of the school and started sniping. I don’t think we ever got an explanation of why, esp. since he was taken out by the police. It never made sense, esp. given the person.)
I was watching more TV the other day than is good for me and it struck me that there was a lot of glamorizing of shooting people and just plain violence on the tube and movies than I remember growing up. The media is an easy target to blame, but there seems to be a real glut of poor models for solving problems.