Sacrifice, “It’s Worth It”
August 6, 2008 by Tracee Sioux
Filed under Parenting
I hear mothers talk about how sacrifice is “worth it” for their kids. I especially hear this if mother’s have given up something valuable – economic independence, dreams, ambitions, time, goals, careers, autonomy, hobbies, interests, etc.
When did I – as a human being – lose my inherent value? Was it when I stopped being the child so worthy of my mother’s sacrifice? Or was it when I became the mother, expected to sacrifice everything for my children, and then say, “it’s worth it?” Or was it when I turned 18 and stopped being a legal child?
I’m just curious how one human being has elevated value over another – children over mothers specifically – but then somehow they grow out of it?
After the children are grown and we look back on life we ask ourselves all kind of questions about what we sacrificed along the way. Some of it is for our children, did we give them a good enough bringing up, could we have done more for them in many different ways, like instilling a good sense of values, and did we love them enough and most of all did we tell them we loved them. We can only do our best and learn along the way.
Do you ever wonder “Did I give up too much? Did I spoil them? Did I make them the center of my Universe? Did I lose myself in them?” Margaret?
Of course parenthood has sacrifices and compromises, but my first thought is that it is mostly unnecessary to sacrifice to the extent you mention. It simply does not produce better results.
The notion that the more you give up, the better your kids will turn out is one of those dangerous motherhood myths. In reality, I think children with parents who don’t make them the center of their universe are much happier, fulfilled and self-reliant.
Particularly if I had a daughter, I wouldn’t want her to think that being a woman means no longer being an individual, nurturing personal passions or reserving time and energy for one’s self.
I totally agree with Violet.
I also think some mothers tend to think of themselves as martyrs, b/c they obviously do feel like they are giving up so much of themselves. Which I think leads to the whole “holier than thou” and “your opinion is worth nothing” attitude towards women are aren’t mothers.
I’ve certainly gotten that vibe.
I just think if someone likes herself and her situation in life they’re not going to be so defensive as a lot of mothers seem to be.
Sure, we sacrifice our interests for the interests/well-being of our children. I think, to a certain degree, it is expected that parents do that. Honestly, I have to admit that it was refreshing to shift the focus to my children after 30 years thinking about me alone. That said, the biggest challenge we have as working mothers is bringing the focus back to ourselves every once in a while. Not only is it good for us, it is good for our children to see that we have interests and are important too.
I didn’t even mention how much pressure to be perfect it must put on a child who has a parent who “gave up everything” for him or her and whose own self-worth and success is entirely wrapped up in their children’s accomplishments.
What a burden to carry your parents happiness on your back like that! I’ve known people who actually live double lives for fear of not living up to the dream their parents have for them.
I think a lot of mothers realize that they didn’t know how hard motherhood really was until they were one..and that’s where that “holier than thou” vibe comes from.
Also, I feel very defensive when I feel underappreciated and underestimated.
I agree with VEM. I think simply being a mother means sacrificing things like sleep, nights out partying, and peeing in privacy..but I agree that all mothers need to make time for themselves sometimes. And hang onto some things from our previous identity.
What I’m really getting at is the idea that children are inherently more valuable than any other people on the planet. I don’t get that. What makes them more valuable, more worthy of sacrifice than adults?
More worthy of healthcare for instance. You hear people talk about “at least every child should have healthcare” when really isn’t it more logical that working parents have healthcare so they can take care of said children?
I had a friend who was KILLING herself for one semester. It was her last semester, but everything about it sucked – her working hours sucked, her commute sucked, etc. Someone said, “Oh I feel so bad for her kid, who’s in daycare for so long”
Are you kidding – her kid was singing head, shoulders, knees and toes and learning her shapes and colors and having nap and snack time. Like that’s the worst thing that could happen to a person?
Mom was spending 10 hrs a day working for free and driving 2 hrs each way and being a single mom. I mean, her life really was hell that semester.
The assumption that the child’s experience was of more value than the mother’s was obvious.
I know what you mean. I remember after Katrina, I kept seeing organizations collecting donations for the children. I was like, huh? What about the adults? Don’t they need clothing and personal supplies also?
I’m with you on the health/dental care thing too. I see many programs for low-income children (who incidentally are generally much healthier than adults) but very few for adults, many of whom are the breadwinners and caretakers for the same children. What happens to those children when mom gets sick?
These golden children turn 18 and then boom – no more value? What’s up with that?
Tracee, the person who said that about your friend’s child is just ridiculous. I can’t imagine that rational people would actually think that being in daycare is a worse situation than the mother’s miserable load.
And someone who would automatically feel pity for a child in daycare is someone who obviously doesn’t know very many adults who were in daycare as kids, and that person also has a lot of personal biases. Nothing you can do about someone like that.
The fact that motherhood and parenthood is hard is why so many people I know wait a good long while before they jump in. Myself included.
Motherhood being hard means a mother is a better, more worthy person than a nonmother? I don’t think so.
No, REbecca, not at all. Not better, not more worthy,.. just not really interested in advice and what-not from someone who hasn’t been there.
Here’s an example: Would you give a doctor medical advice if you weren’t a doctor yourself? Would you weigh in on a car discussion if you didn’t own one and never had?
There’s a definate, collective “sigh” and eyeroll from mothers around the world when someone childless, like Oprah (for example), says “make time for yourself, just do it”
Also, “The fact that motherhood and parenthood is hard is why so many people I know wait a good long while before they jump in. Myself included.”
That’s a sugary passive agressive way of saying that you’re tired of hearing mothers whine and that they should have just waited until they were “ready”..
Sorry Tracee, I”m not trying to skirt around the point you’re trying to make. You’re right I guess about the collective family instead of just the children.
Seems like sometimes when there’s a huge NEED, guilty is felt by those who are not needy, and then the ensuing blame game begins (ex: “They could have evacuated and chose not to” about Katrina victims) …so maybe organizations are just trying to focus on the children in order to draw more sincere empathy and funds.
Nonmothers ARE allowed to comment here. Just so everyone knows.
Nonmothers should understand though that – We mothers remember what WE used to think before we had kids. We now think our own past selves didn’t know what the hell we were talking about for lack of experience and lack of perspective. It’s mostly not about your worthiness to comment – it’s mostly about “imagining how it is” versus “the reality of how it is.”
It’s similar to talking to someone who’s engaged about what it’s like to be married or how marriage “should be.” To someone who actually is married it sounds a little naive and doesn’t carry the same weight.
But be careful Rebecca – in about a week your perspective is about to shift. To one of The Mother. And your perspective should shift.
That Girl – congratulate Rebecca – she’s very very pregnant, so her words are about to carry more weight with you.
Making kids the center of your world, and sole source of identity= bad
putting kids in daycare 10 hours a day to climb the ladder = bad
finding a balance between the two = good
I loved that about the Benette’s book. Her point was…don’t give it all up and step out of the working world completely. BUT you also can’t be THE top dog career woman either. It’s OK to be “good enough.” Have a career you love, but make it a career that is conducive to raising a family.
We are all on the same side. We all should fight for better policy, and more family/woman friendly work place. All of us.
And there is a collective sigh and eyeroll as well from nonmothers when mothers make comments like “you have no right to participate in a discussion on the dilemma facing working mothers because you don’t have children.” It doesn’t take a mother’s brain to observe a dilemma when one clearly exists. Just like it doesn’t take a doctor to tell if someone’s head has been chopped off or a mechanic to be able to tell that a car won’t start. Some things are just obvious.
And I could see how Oprah disseminating advice to mothers could be annoying. But that’s not what I’m referring to.
And you sure are good at making incorrect assumptions. When I hear mothers complain I think “crap, that’s terrible”. Not “quit whining already.” Geez. My problem, like I said above, is with the “holier than thou” vibe which I maintain seems understandable if women have really made so many sacrifices that they feel like a martyr.
I know lots of mothers, and none of them have that holier than thou vibe in person. It only seems to come across on the internet. Maybe it just boils down to people are ruder on the internet than they are in person.
Maybe so Rebecca – this meany is wishing you good luck with motherhood.
I’m usually the notable non-mother here, and I do get what some of you are saying. I have all sorts of opinions that are academic only, and I realize that I don’t have to follow through on many of them in real life. I often joke it’s like men making laws about abortion that they will never have to follow.
However, I do think I bring something valuable to the conversation. I’ve watched my friends and family members become mothers over the last 20 years and I’ve observed the ways they seem to get stuck or tripped up. I’ve seen choices that work and choices that don’t work. I’ve seen women lose themselves, beat up on themselves and give up too much. I’ve provided a shoulder for many to cry on and observed and formed opinions about what I’ve seen from my point of view.
Although I acknowledge that I don’t see everything from my limited perspective, I think sometimes mothers cannot clearly see things they are in the midst of either. In short, we all have blind spots.
Your opinions have tempered and changed since you were young, but so have mine. My thoughts on motherhood have shifted dramatically since I was a 19-year-old girl who wanted nothing more than to stay home and raise babies, forget about the career and autonomy.
The doctor analogy doesn’t really hold up for me. The doctor may know more, but the nurse knows some and even the receptionist has picked up a thing or two. Not to mention the patient! I am the oldest girl in a family of six, a former nanny and a doting aunt, sister-in-law and friend. I was also a child myself, so I have opinions on what worked in my childhood and what didn’t.
Last time I checked, families with children were not shipping out to their own island, but live and grow among us people with no children, so your choices DO affect me.
I’ve asked if Tracee wanted me to stop commenting here and she always says no. If she asked me to, I would stop giving my two cents. But until then, that’s all I have to offer – my two limited, incomplete cents. Others can choose to listen, ignore or take with a grain of salt.
I find many of these issues are not so different for me. I feel overwhelmed by life sometimes too. I’ve lost myself in marriage, we fight over the division of labor, I’ve put myself last too often and I’ve depended too much on my man to “take care of me.” I’m still learning and growing just like you are.
Jeez, that was longer than the post. Sorry.
Violet and Rebecca add to the conversation precisely because they are nonmothers. Rebecca has a short shelf life for this purpose. But I’m excited to hear what she has to say about being a new mother attorney in an egalitarian marriage.
Frankly, I love Oprah’s parenting and marriage advice BECAUSE she’s not either.
When we become emotionally invested we are in an emotional cloud that’s not objective.
What we look like from the outside is valuable information. What the nonmothers who share are office policy are thinking is valuable information.
Besides this post wasn’t necessarily about BEING a mother. If you think about it you have to wonder why Violet has inherently less value too. She’s not a child either so often she’s left out of the inherent value of children dynamic completely. She had inherent value too – until she became an adult.
Violet, I did not mean to offend you. I am sorry.
I guess I was just trying to explain the ruffled feathers that mothers sometimes get when they feel they are being underappreciated by society..When they give and give (because they want to) and then society turns around and says “Um, no, that was too much – that last part didn’t count mom.. it was all for nothing” or “just take some time for yourself!” or “don’t lose yourself”. Don’t get me wrong – I dont’ disagree with all of these statements, but when they’re coming from someone who doesn’t realize how extremely HARD it is to find time for yourself and to make choices like career ladder or time with children it is offensive (to me – maybe I am the lone ranger). Also, sometimes advice like that seems to come from a place of condescention. The giver is often assuming that the woman didn’t actually CHOOSE one thing over another – but just went along with something silly. I realize that for generations women did just that -they did what they were expected to do, no questions. But I don’t feel that’s the reality today. I feel women my age have a greater pressure to work than stay home and when they choose to stay home, people assume she’s not making an educated choice.
I feel like you’re not understanding where I’m coming from with the “you’re not a mother” statement, and I’m coming off as a huge bitch,..so here’s another analogy. When the skinny girl stands up on Ricki Lake and says she feels fat – there’s definate bristling. When the only white person in the room stands up and says “hey, I think all of ya’ll just need to do this or that to fix your problems” there’s bristling. Maybe it’s not right – but there’s bristling just the same.
That said, I respect your opinion greatly, Violet and I enjoy sparring with you over issues. I do not want to offend you – I hope you get that.
I love Oprah, but for years she flippantly told us to “just make time” and “just don’t lose yourself” and it grated a nerve for me.
A couple of years ago she kept her own dogs for the weekend which required her to walk and bath and feed them and all (there were like 6) and the next show taping she said she just wanted to apologize for being so flippant all that time. She said she could finally understand how a mother could literally not find time in the morning to brush her teeth, much less go for that massage or whatever. It was very validating.
that girl – I – a mother of two – wrote the post. Largely based on my new perspective The Feminine Mistake my book club just finished. The author Leslie Bennetts is also the mother of two.
The thing about Oprah’s advice is that she’s right about time for yourself and learning to say no and rejecting the “perfect mommy” standard.
I think Oprah’s particularly credible when she brings on Christiane Northrup and Dr. Oz who can tell us what the severe health consequences are if we don’t heed the advice.
We can keep it up for a few years and then our physical body says NO MORE and our thyroids stop working or our blood pressure goes dangerously high, etc. You can keep going at that pace – but there are real consequences.
Oprah’s advice has helped me develop an ability to say No. I said no (to yet another opportunity to serve the damn children), where I previously would have give into guilt, to some church ladies yesterday and it felt great and it was the best choice for me. I don’t get many massages, but I do way fewer things I don’t want to do, I make time for yoga and exercise, I refuse to miss my bookclub for any number of “more important” excuses, I insist on help from the rest of the family for “maintenance of life and home.”
That Girl, ah, the fat thing drives it home. If I hear one more naturally thin person say, “just eat less and exercise more” like it is the easiest damn thing in the world…
You are right. There is a certain condescension like that about child rearing too, like it’s so damn easy, especially from people who have no children. I have been guilty of that attitude on occasion myself. I know it is harder than it looks, and I admire you all for making difficult decisions. Especially in light of the fact that you’re pretty much damned if you do, damned if you don’t on most things.
I feel overwhelmed and out of balance all the time WITHOUT children, and I often marvel at how you moms do it! I’m exhausted just watching.
You didn’t hurt my feelings. I enjoy sparring also, and I actually really like these debates and seeing different sides of the issues.
Thanks That Girl. The bristling that you’re talking about makes a certain amount of sense.
Looks like I’ll probably be having the baby tomorrow if I can get admitted tonight. I have to be induced.
I can’t say I enjoy the sparring. Lately I’ve found it really depressing. I blame the hormones, of course!
And Tracee, I am beyond glad to know that you are making time for those things that are important to you.
Rebecca, that’s exciting news. I’m sending you good vibes that everything will go well. Amateur social scientist that I am, it will be interesting to see if and how your opinions shift once you are in the motherhood mix. Best of luck!
I really want to read the Feminist Mistake. I think I told you Tracee, I read a review of it when it first came out that was so scathing that I didn’t want to read the book. The review was seemingly written from a very defensive posture I suppose. I can see how the book would cause alot of bristling. I just really hate the whole debate; it seems so pointless. But I’ve obviously gotten a different perspective on it from reading your posts.
Thanks Violet!!!
I don’t think the book was pointless at all. Or the debate. (I have to admit the debate wears me down emotionally too if/when I internalize it.)
My bookclub read it and we all wanted to hate it and the author.
Instead, after reading the actual book (and not opinions of those who read the cover of the book) every single one of us changed our perception of our own work, felt more empowered to make better financial decisions for ourselves and felt a very pressing need based on statistical reality to make ourselves as financially independent as possible. No matter what.
So, truly I feel gratitude toward the author. She said a lot of crap that I did not want to hear. But, it was written so well, that I will make different – better – decisions from here on out.
That includes the housewifes, hairdressers, me, wealthy physical therapist, nonmothers, and educators who have all made different work choices.
Two are registered for school, in part because of the book.
It really, really helped me lay down most of my working guilt. Which, you know for me is huge.
That’s in no way pointless. That changed the lives of 8 women and all the women they know and their kids, etc.
Hey – if ya’ll buy the book through one of my links in one of my posts then I get a commission.
Hey, I never said the book is pointless. If I thought so I wouldn’t want to read it. What I think is pointless is some of the really vicious comments and fighting I see from both sides of the debate on various places on the internet.
I HATE looking at message boards about it. No one comes away from those feeling empowered or like they have gained valuable insight like your book club did after reading the book. I’ve made a point to not read any of those boards.
I misunderstood. Hopefully this Internet place is different.