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Wednesday, December 9th, 2009

Shame and Stigma: On what happened on January 19th

January 27, 2007 by Kristina Chew, PhD  
Filed under Health

A student at Lincoln-Sudbury High School where John Odgren fatally stabbed his fellow student James Alenson on January 19 has written a note to John Ritchie, the school’s principal:

““I am a student with a mild form of Asperger syndrome and I am scared that now everybody thinks I’m a violent person.”

The student’s note is quoted in Asperger patients wary of stabbing case stigma, an article in the January 27th Worcester Telegram & Gazette News. Michael Levinger, the father of a 17-year-old with Asperger’s, also notes that his son is concerned about how he will be perceived due to the stabbing:

“His reaction is one of concern, both because he sees the horror of the situation … and he’s concerned because he says, ‘This isn’t me, and I don’t want this to reflect on who I am as an individual,’ ……. He doesn’t want people to come to some conclusion about people with Asperger’s — including himself — that’s wrong and incorrect.”

The Mark of Shame: Stigma of Mental Illness and an Agenda for Change
On January 17th, I wrote about the “shame and sigma” still associated with mental illness, autism, ADHD, and other psychiatric disorders. A book, The Mark of Shame: Stigma of Mental Illness and an Agenda for Change, by Stephen Hinshaw, chair of the Department of Psychology at the University of California at Berkeley, argues that, until there is a “civil rights movement” for those with mental illness—as long as there is prejudice and stereotyping and, indeed, fear of the mentally ill—they will continue to (in Hinshaw’s words) “‘lose out on major life opportunities,’” from obtaining a driver’s license to job discrimination—-and even to attending school among their peers. Another quote from Hinshaw is relevant here, I think:

“Neglect and exclusion impede adequate research funding and clinical care, fueling the myth that mental illness is lifelong, hopeless and deserving of revulsion.”

“’We’re trying to offset this notion that people have to be afraid. With Asperger’s, it’s generally much more common for them to be picked on and to be bullied and teased than for them to be perpetrators,’” as the Worcester Telegram & Gazette News quotes Dr. Daniel W. Rosenn, a child psychiatrist who has been working with individuals with Asperger’s Syndrome for twenty years.

There has been a quite fervent—sometimes very emotional—discussion about Odgren’s stabbing of Alenson in this post, Too much tragedy: Student charged in fatal stabbing of classmate. The perception that persons with Asperger’s syndrome have violent tendencies can only add to the shame and stigma already felt and experienced by persons with autism and by their families: I don’t know if we can ever make sense of what happened at Lincoln-Sudbury High School on January 19th, but I hope that we can move from the terrible events and, in the best memory of James Alenson, learn so that this kind of tragedy—-so that too much tragedy—does not happen again.

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Comments

37 Responses to “Shame and Stigma: On what happened on January 19th”
  1. Donna says:

    ““I am a student with a mild form of Asperger syndrome and I am scared that now everybody thinks I’m a violent person.”

    And the people who personally know this teen knows he is not violent. But others are and what we need to understand is that the spectrum is made up of individuals with many different personalities, coping mechanisms etc.

    Don’t know if you ever read Mixed Blessings by William Christopher. He was Father Mulcahy on the TV show M*A*S*H. His son could speak a couple of different languages and knew all the different flags from around the world in different centuries, etc. An extremely bright kid. Anyway, one day on an outing with his family, he started attacking other people on the ferry posing a threat to himself and others.

    Donna

    .

  2. I haven’t read that book; thanks for the reference! What you point out is something I’ve noted again and again in reading news coverage about Odgren: Others with AS are especially worried that this one too well-publicized story will be what those who don’t know think is typical of AS, and autistic, persons.

    One thing I have especially wondered about in Odgren’s case is how much was known by the school district about his behavior history? Might something have not been communicated that ought to have been?

  3. Donna says:

    I have read about 400 books on PDD’s, i.e. autobiography, parental, sibling, professional as in teacher, doctor, therapist etc. I would say violent acts towards others is in about 30% of the books I read.

    To deny that violence is not there is not a good thing because it prevents $$$ being spent for todays and tomorrows spectrumers whether it be school placement to in home supports or community supports with ultimate goal of living independently or with as much independence as possible for the individual.

    Maybe not placing blame is the answer. Learn from what went tragically wrong so it never happens again is the ultimate goal. That helps the spectrumer and thus in the process helps every one else.

  4. Very good—-there definitely seems always to be a tendency to place blame on someone, somewhere, on some agent. But what a difference if we spent all that energy on figuring out ways to help kids who need it—-and make sure we are honest about whether they have agressive or violent behavior, and that they can learn to manage these.

  5. elsa says:

    One thing I would add–I don’t think Aspie’s or autistic people are necessarily more violent & people should be concerned. But, it may be fair to say that people in the spectrum can be more prone to psychological disorders–i.e. depression, bipolar, etc. Ultimately, though, how many kids have stabbed or shot others at school who were NOT autistic??? Why is no one bringing that up?

  6. Jackie says:

    When someone is pushed to their limit, by bullying, they might feel the only way to stop the torment is to be violent. This is true for people aside from those with Asperger’s Syndrome.

    The schools only want to look at the results of the rampant bullying they allow to go on in their schools. They don’t want to look at the causation, because then they might actually have to do something about the bullying issue. More than just giving bullies a slap on the wrist.

  7. Phil Schwarz says:

    One vitally important distinction about violent acts by people on the autism spectrum that I have not seen *anyone* make in the discussion of the tragedy at Lincoln-Sudbury High, is this:

    When the minority of people on the autism spectrum who do exhibit violent behavior do so, it is usually as a result of stressor(s) that are pushing them into a state of spontaneous, acute *meltdown*, rather than much more frequent *shutdown* — withdrawal, freezing, lapse of ability to communicate. If they do melt down violently, it is *spontaneous and unpremeditated*: they lash out with their hands and feet and possibly (but much much less frequently) something random in their immediate vicinity they can pick up and throw or heave.

    When people — even professionals who work with people on the autism spectrum — make conjectures about the prevalence of violence in people on the autism spectrum, they don’t make this important distinction. They should, and must be called on it.

    The distinction is critical, because it is a key to preventing backlash from cases like the tragedy at Lincoln-Sudbury High from leading to irrational reduction in the rights, freedom, and support of people on the spectrum and to further poisoning of the way they are viewed and treated by the surrounding society, on the grounds of misbegotten conclusions regarding violence among people on the spectrum.

    John Odgren’s history and situation is complex.

    His attorney has — correctly, I think — cited his AS diagnosis as one reason why, pending final outcome of his case, he should not be placed in a general prison population.

    (The whole question of processing *anyone* age 16 through the adult criminal justice system is another factor that is horribly, horribly wrong in Massachusetts, but that needs to be the topic of an entire discussion on its own.)

    On the other hand, AS has *no* legitimate place as a general causative factor in the presentation of an insanity defense for the murder charge itself, when the distinction I cite above is made regarding the nature of violent acts on the part of people on the spectrum.

    There may well be grounds for an insanity defense, taking other elements of Odgren’s complex history and situation into account.

    But AS should *not* be considered a general causative factor in this case. Because in order to make such an argument, AS would have to be misrepresented in ways which would do incalculable further damage to the well-being of others in the autism spectrum population.

  8. Rochelle says:

    Off-topic: Thanks so much, Kristina, for always posting references to these books. I always have to go to Amazon and put it on my wishlist every time. When I’m done with my dissertation, I’m going to have to send you a fruit basket. Thanks again.

  9. J.Odgren says:

    Hello,
    I would like to thank everyone for their views and opinions – and questions – with what happened at Lincoln-Sudbury. Mr. Schwarz, you are absolutely right in saying that John’s history and situation are complex. I know there are a *lot* of questions about the factors that could have instigated this incident, and the frustrating truth is – we will never know what happened that morning. It is walled off in a far corner of John’s brain and I really don’t believe we’ll ever know. What I can say for sure is this: John’s parents have worked tirelessly, with love and diligence, for their son. They have had to deal with people (like Miss X from the other post) who have done nothing but make their lives worse & more difficult, with little understanding, and contribute to John’s issues. His parents and brother, and the rest of our family, have been by his side from the beginning and I honestly don’t believe they could have done anything different or seen this coming. They would never allow anyone to potentially be put in harm’s way if they had any inkling. John has always been a loving boy with a very quirky and brilliantly whitty (~ saying a lot of things in jest! …that if you didn’t know him, you could definitely take the wrong way!) sense of humor. He’s off the charts intelligent – for example, he knew every state & its capital before he was 3 years old, and every country and its capital before he was 4 years old. He loves the outdoors and woods, and his lego’s. He is brilliant on one hand, but on the other, he is still a child and completely lacks emotional and social understanding. John was doing much, much better in the past year, and like his father said, he “showed spontaneous empathy for the first time”. That was a huge stop. John wouldn’t (counsciously) hurt anything. He was devastated when he found out James died. He doesn’t understand what happened, or the consequences of apparently his actions. It’s definitely complicated. Asperger’s and ADHD are not an excuse for his actions, and everyone understands there needs to be appropriate consequences for any given situation. That being said, the hope is that we live in a just society, and trying him as an adult is not the appropriate consequence for someone like John. I think something people also need to keep in mind is the *individuality* of every single patient or person with a physical, emotional or mental diagnosis. 5 people with pneumonia will all present with the standard Sx of pneumonia (…or not!), but every single one of them will have additional Sx that make their illness unique from the others, that might have nothing to do with the pneumonia, but affects the person as a whole, making their entire expression of illness and experience unique. People’s constitutions are different, their susceptibilities are different, the way people express disease is different, and each needs to be taken on a case-by-case basis. Not everyone with Asperger’s is violent. Is it probable? Apparently not! Is it possible? Sure. 22 other cases before this show that. Of course, there could have been, and probably were, many other circumstances surrounding THOSE cases. Now, for John, throw in 16 years of everything else he’s gone through that not everyone knows about, plus ADHD, depression, constantly balancing his meds, teenage hormones, appropriate adult supervision and guidance (or *lack thereof*, and NOT on my family’s part! – I can say that first-hand!!) and various other things, and you have a very unique case with very unique circumstances. I wish the other post was still open; I wanted to reply. It amazes me what some people will say who truly don’t understand the situation and people involved at ALL, but *think* and act like they do. I am so thankful for the posts where people actually acknowledge they don’t know all the facts & circumstances, and there is a LOT more to it than the media can and will cover, especially at this point, never mind the slant they may want to put on it. I’m so grateful for the overwhelming support and love my family has received, and understanding how devastating this is for everyone involved. We are numb with sorrow for the Alenson family, and overcome with grief about John. He’ll never sleep in his bed again, and he misses his bunny & blanket desperately. (Sound like an average 16 year old?) He needs help & doesn’t know how to take care of himself. He doesn’t understand yet that he’s not going home. It is our hope, and the hope of almost every single person that hears about this, that he be sentenced to a place where he can receive the care he needs. There is currently a petition for him to be tried as a juvenile, not an adult, and if anyone would please sign it & pass it along, maybe another injustice can be prevented in this unbearable tragedy.
    http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/313892

    Thank you for your time – Peace & Love to you all.

  10. J.Odgren says:

    Also, please excuse my spelling errors… it’s 3 in the morning, and I couldn’t drag myself away!!

  11. LS parent says:

    These are a questions to J. Odgren.

    Where did Jack get the knife?

    Why did he bring it to school?

    Did his parents know about this knife?

  12. Mr. Odgren, thank you very much for writing here. I had to close the comments on the other post due to the tone that the discussion was taking on: I really appreciate your emphasizing the complexity of the situation here, and the extent to which we do not know so much.

  13. J.Odgren says:

    Hello,
    Regarding LS parent’s questions ~ I don’t know how much information I can give regarding the knife because this is (obviously) an open case and has not gone to trial, so as not to put information out there that has not been released in a court of law, I just can’t discuss it here. I’m so sorry – I know everyone wants answers and a better understanding, but I need to be very careful about the things I say and ask you to please be patient. The answers will be made known in due time. Hopefully the DA and media won’t mess with evidence for the publicity, as this is a very high “public interest” case. We don’t want anything to be hidden from the public – we just want it to be presented fairly at the appropriate time for the case – and then the public can absolutely expect more answers.
    So, on to your questions:
    I do not know – no one knows, not even John (consciously) – why he would bring a knife to school. I do not believe at ALL he had any premeditation or intention to harm anyone. It appears to be a chance encounter that went terribly wrong. I know that’s hard to swallow, because the loss is so great… Reality and what is in John’s head get mixed up. He truly doesn’t understand the gravity of the situation. As far as he knew, the day after he was put in jail, he knew he was in a place different from his home for something he felt like he may have done and owned up to, and was waiting for someone to say, “Okay, you can go home now.” I think he felt like he was living out a movie scene, not reality, to be honest! He wanted (still does) his stuffed bunny & blankie (for comfort AND warmth -he had ice in his cell and one thin blanket.), which of course he can’t have. I wish I could elaborate further, so you might understand John a little better, but he’s a very complex individual – very within his own head, which is very different from ours. He was doing so well this past year – he was moved all over the place, different schools, not because HE was the problem – it was the staff or other students at the schools that made life very difficult for him. His parents monitor everything very closely and carefully, and have diligently taken all the appropriate measures to ensure his safety and that he’s in a productive (learning) environment. I can say that when he started school at LS, he came home HAPPY for the first time. He’d brush his hair and teeth without my aunt making him do it. He’d get up on his own to get ready for school – that’s never happened before in his life. He *loved it* more than anything, and came home happy with all kinds of stories from the day, and couldn’t wait to go back in the morning. We started to have hope that he would actually be a productive member of society and integrate and learn social skills from being there. No one had any idea this tragedy was even a remote possiblity. I understand there may be questions as to why he was even in that public school to begin with – please rest assured that my aunt & uncle did their research, worked hard and had specific arrangements with the school regarding John, and I’m sure the details of that will come out at some point during the process. As for whether they knew about the knife ~ do you mean before this happened? I’m not sure of the context of the question. It was just a regular morning, getting ready for school and work. They knew nothing until they got a phone call to go to the police station, and weren’t given any details until arriving there. My uncle was there and John, at that point, didn’t know Mr. Alenson (- out of respect I call him Mr. Alenson, not James) had passed away. The first thing John asked was, How is he, Dad? Is he okay? If you can even place yourself in my uncle’s shoes for that moment, you might feel an tiny ounce of the weight they carry – My uncle, in utter shock, had to tell his son that the boy died. John cried for over an hour. And not for himself. He doesn’t understand consequence, especially with this. He cried because he wouldn’t want anyone to get hurt and was so, so sad. I know that may sound nuts, given the circumstances… I’m sorry – there is so much I want to write here… I WANT to give more details, I want to scream from every rooftop so people might understand we’re a loving family, and understand that John is a good kid and we cry every day. I can’t imagine the weight of the universe that rests heavily every day on my aunt & uncle’s (& John’s brother’s) shoulders. We can’t even begin to express our devastation for the Alenson family. Our loss is different and difficult in that yes, John is still alive, NOT well in any way, we are helpless to help him and he desperately needs help, and we wake up every morning and have to realize, yet again, that this is not a dream. My heart is broken. There will be no grieving and moving on for my family. This is going to consume the rest of their lives, every single day, and have worked hard every single day to advocate for John since he started having difficulty. I’m sorry this is a lot of emotional “stuff” and not more “answers” – there has been immense understanding and compassion for my family which is the only reason they have been able to get out of bed each day. The outreach has been overwhelming, and overwhelmingly received with love and thankfulness beyond words. I want to hug and hold tight and sob with and for the Alenson family for their senseless loss of their beautiful son. I want to hug John just so he knows he’s not alone. It’s a tragedy of enormous magnitude all around. I know there are many, many questions still and again, I tearfully beseech you to be patient. The truth, as much as possible, will be made known in time.

    p.s. – Dr. Chew, yes I understand closing the other post! I commend the others who stayed respectful and didn’t resort to contemptuous rudeness. I pity her in her ignorance and suffering.
    Also, it’s Ms. Odgren. :) Thank you again, for you time.

  14. Phil Schwarz says:

    Ms. Odgren, thanks for what you have written. This is such a sad case, for all concerned.

  15. Thank you, Ms. Odgren, and my apologies for the incorrect honorific. I more than appreciate you comments here.

  16. J.Odgren says:

    Hello again,
    No problem ~ I don’t think there’s much more I can add at this point. Thank you all for your thoughts and understanding. I’m sure you all will be following closely, and I wish you the very best. Take care & God bless ~

  17. Kassiane says:

    Ms. Odgren,

    Thank you for your posts. I’m sorry for what your family and the Alensons are going through. I can’t fathom HOW rough, but the emotions have got to be overwhelming.

    I signed the petition (or am in the process of doing so, technically) and your family, especially John, are in my thoughts (is? are?). I’m the autistic product of bullying AND a screwed up family so while I don’t know John I do know the baggage that comes with being academically ahead and socially sideways.

    This whole thing is just so, so wrong….

  18. ExSudburyMom says:

    J.Odgren,
    Thank you for your posts. It helped to hear a little more about your cousin and your family and my heart goes out to you all and even more so to the Alenson family. As more information comes out about Jack, I can’t help thinking that it seemed as if he was asking for help- maybe putting out signs in hopes of being given some guidance. (Showing weapons to a school psychologist, wearing clothing often associated with the darker side of adolescence, playing violent video games???) I am sure there are many details that we do not know yet but I am haunted by the thoughts that as a parent, I would not let my “normal” sixteen year old do these things. I just can’t fathom why a loving parent would let their fragile son have access to these things. Is it really a good idea to fuel an interest in forensics and murder with such a young boy who has social difficulties? Knowing Lincoln Sudbury High School as I do, I am also deeply troubled by the fact that anyone would consider that high school a good place for a child who desperately needs boundaries and structure. Many parents pull their children out because of the lack of structure found there. In discussing this tragedy, I hope that everyone keeps in mind that the Alensons can’t hug their son- ever again.

  19. NewSudburyMom says:

    Thank you ExSudburyMom for putting some words to how I’m feeling. Jack was very much asking for help. This is beyond horrible. His parents are (of course) culpable. The many adults in John’s life are partly to blame too, and certainly NOT the LS students — children– the town selectmen seem to think are at fault for not saying anything about a kid they only knew was “weird”, not having clinical issues. I moved to Sudbury from a a large city very recently and I’ve been amazed at how loose and “students and faculty are all equal and friends” the high school seems, not to mention champions of the underdog to a very weird degree. Before this murder I was put off by minor things like how the older kids can leave the campus during lunch (driving Range Rovers to empty homes), a principal who sings songs “to the tune of” at graduation — where is the reverence to education)? But I’m beginning to believe that with all of the “our kids are given a lot of space and we trust them with it and we are their buddies”, many kids, like John Odgren, are left to their own devices and have VERY poor supervision. His homicidal self should have never been admitted to this enormous, loosey-goosey school.

  20. ExSudbury Mom, New Sudbury Mom: Thank you so much for reading and writing in here—of course I don’t know the LS High School or what it is like to be a student there, but your comments lead to think that it would not a good school environment for my own. He does best with lots of structure and with clear rules and goals, and with a lot of attentive supervision. How is the student population handling what happened?

  21. Joseph Mele says:

    I am concerned with the implied equivalence of Aspergers and mental illness in the above article.
    Autism is not a mental illness.

  22. Thank you, Joseph. I will be sure that this distinction is much more clear.

  23. I am impressed by the quality of discussion I read before posting. I hope we can learn something from this. I fail to see evidence that we are any more prone to violence than society in general but like others, I fear the possible stigmatization that this incident can produce.

    I think it would help if Kassianne and others here who are past victims of violence can teach other peers how to cope with that and become assertive in one’s own interest without going over the top.

  24. Kassiane says:

    We’re workin’ on it Jerry, we’re workin’. I’ve got a 7 yr old peer from gymnastics right now with whom I’m working one on one three days a week, and I think ASAN has things planned talking to older kids. Other people are working at it too, as their time, energy, and local populations permit.

    Little by little we’re getting there. Unfortunately we can’t move fast enough, since that requires time travel…

  25. Thanks, Mr. Newport, for writing in here. I also hope that Kassiane and any others might teach those of us who are not on the spectrum what we might do to make things better — and that we can all learn something from this. Thank you again.

  26. Rochelle says:

    In regard to Kassiane and Mr. Newport’s discussion, MTV’s True Life next week is “I have autism” (Sunday, 8:00 cst). True Life is looking at 3 high school students living with differing degrees of autism.

    It’ll be interesting to see how MTV addresses the issue, especially considering it’s (typically, neuro-typical) audience.

  27. Keep working on putting out good information to correct the misconception that we are all violent aspies. Nice to see some of my friends like Phil and Kassianne contributing here.

    Mary and I are in Baltimore today and go home Saturday.

    Jerry Newport

  28. Clay says:

    Wow. I never would’ve thought that so many people thought like I did on just one website alone. Feels refreshing, actually.

    Just out curiosity, has John’s fate been sealed? Meaning, is he definitely jailed or has recieved his verdict yet? Or is he only in Plymouth to be monitored for the time being? Currently, I only know so much of what he’s contending with, so if someone filled me in with the latest of what’s going on with John Odgren right now, I’d appreciate it. Thanks

  29. J. Odgren says:

    Hi Clay,
    John’s fate hasn’t been “sealed” per se – the “justice” system in Massachusetts is still considering him a competent adult, even though he’s a mentally and emotionally *YOUNG* person and doesn’t understand the workings of society and consequence (& being without the care he needs, he’s slipping farther…). He’s turning 17 in September, and the state will move him to a regular ADULT prison population. I’m sure you’ve heard the horrors of what happens there, and someone like John has no business being thrown into that kind of environment without protection. It’s been a living hell for him, literally, and it seems it’s about to get worse – for him and the whole family. What a tragic system to allow something like this, and let someone who needs immense help be sent to the lion’s den (so to speak…). It seems he’s being used to make an example of some sort – I don’t understand how a just society would allow this.
    Anyway – I heard of your post, and wanted to reply. Any & all prayers for John are very, very needed – and for his parents & brother.
    Of *course*, the Alenson family is always in our thoughts and prayers. I can’t imagine the pain they still must be going through…
    love and peace ~ J.

  30. J,

    Thanks very much for writing here.

  31. Clay says:

    So he’s permanently imprisoned? I heard from (what I felt was) a reliable source that he was in jail to await trial. This is just screwed up! Putting him in jail, hell, trying him as a freaking adult, and not waiting for more information and closure regarding this awful situation is part of the problem, not the solution.

    If this info helps any: A friend of mine has a younger brother (out of respect, I’m leaving the mystery of his name intact) that has been a student at Pathways Academy. He has never once met John, as he began his time at Socio-Pathways some time after Mr. Odgren left. Now, from what my friends’ little bro tells me, Pathways – and much of its “teachers” and staff members – don’t see the point in enforcing consequences, or generally helping their pupils progress. So, in essence, the inmates run the asylum. My friend’s brother (I’m going to call him “Chris”) has witnessed numerous students acting up, racing through the halls and back, disrespecting adults (which could’ve been halted if, God forbid, the adults got off their @$$e$), public profanity, encouragers of the aforementioned acts, and so on. And it’s mainly because the rules state NO CONSEQUENCES. Though that still doesn’t warrant teachers, headmistresses, and the like to stay put and exert as little effort into preventing anarchy as possible.

    Also, if a student were to make a scene during class time, he/she will be asked to take a break (i.e. stand out in the hall for 20 seconds). If the student doesn’t comply, the rest of the 4-5 kid classroom will be asked to move from the room despite not doing anything wrong, as though it were the responsibility of the folks who aren’t misbehaving to carry even more burdens for the sake of harmony just because one other person is in the wrong. More often than not, students will have their class end early, either because a student has insisted upon it, or a staff member(s) just want to get to his/her own damn vices. “Chris” says that this means that if you’re a student there and you have a shred of decency, you’ll have a target on your back.

    Now, regarding “Chris”: He’s attended pathways for a couple of years, escaping the place at his late teens. “Chris” despite never being part of what you or I would call a “traditional” high school, is just the whole package. Pretty much the whole “for all the claims that he’s an idiot be cause he’s in special ed., he’s actually very damn clever and intelligent” story we’ve all heard before. He’s also a riot and literally made me piss myself with laughter in my house. If everyone had the heart and the frame of mind “Chris” has, then John would be nowhere near a prison, to say the least. Yet, the people who supposed to be paid and hired to give him the right tools are simply taking him and his willingness to prosper for granted, as well as most of the students at Psycho-Pathways. One time “Chris” brought home some sheets of his schoolwork only to show what the academia, or lack thereof, was in a nutshell. He was in his HS Sophomore year when he took it home with him, and and it was stuff that any middle schooler with a C average could’ve blazed through. “Chris” has called the staff on this and the teachers respond that the blatantly watered-down “work” the kids receive are a “review”. That’s a helluva review, in my opinion.

    Getting back to John. I KNOW that he ought to be pulled right out of jail. It sends a horrible message: That certain mental problems are to be dismissed. Ms. Odgren, let me remind you that none of this is at all your fault, nor is it any one of your relatives. While I think he should face some repercussions for what happened, it shouldn’t be even close to the extent that it is. It kills to know that we’ve yet to reach a high enough point of social evolution that some people in the legal system can’t see past certain shades of gray. I can’t begin to apologize and share with you my sorrow, mainly because I won’t end. Though is it even remotely possible that John can get out of there earlier than what’s planned? Is it guaranteed life behind bars? It shouldn’t be! There should be protests and picket signs. I for one would be more than happy to take part. Thanks to anyone who took the time to look this all over. I apologize for getting a little irrelevant with the flaws of pathways. I just felt compelled to share it with others and that might be what was a factor with how much John contended with. And I thought some first-hand experience would be helpful. Hey, I’ll try to maybe ask “Chris” to give his opinion on the ordeal and maybe explain more about pathways.

    Thanks again.

  32. George Wade says:

    You may not have to feel the “shame and sigma” still associated with mental illness, autism, ADHD, and other psychiatric disorders, for too much longer.

    Read Dr Martha Herbert’s recent work or listen to her conference videos. Autism is much more a disorder of metabolism and biology that flows to the brain than a psychological disorder: just as asthma is an immune disorder that arrives in the lungs from dysfunctional biology elsewhere.

    My comment is that you could call asthma: autism of the lungs; while feeling autism as: rheumatoid arthritis of the brain. Changing perspectives can be exciting and useful.

  33. J Miller says:

    So – those of you with personal knowledge of autism, what would be a good place for John to be held. I agree that adult prison is not the right place. But some of these “helping” facilities sound as bad in other ways. How should the judge and jury protect society and protect John at the same time?

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  1. [...] Equally hard to read are the circumstances surrounding the stabbing death of 15-year-old James Alenson by 16-year-old student John Odgren at Lincoln-Sudbury Regional High School in Massachusetts on January 19th. Odgren has been indicted on a charge of first-degree murder and faces life in prison, as the Boston Herald and many other news sources are reporting today. [...]

  2. [...] Shame and Stigma: On what happened on January 19th (January 27, 2007) was recently commented on by a relative of John Odgren, J. Odgren. [...]

  3. [...] he was stabbed in a bathroom in Lincoln-Sudbury Regional High School in Massachusetts. 16-year-old John Odgren, who is charged in the fatal stabbing, has been ruled competent by a court-appointed psychiatrist [...]

  4. [...] on September 15. Some earlier responses—some very emotional—to this tragedy can be read here and more on the case can be read in the Boston Herald. Tags: asd, asperger, autism, Crime, john [...]



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