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	<title>Comments on: Simon Baron-Cohen on &#8220;Disorder,&#8221; &#8220;Cure,&#8221; and Autism</title>
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	<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/</link>
	<description>Family, Health, Home and Lifestyles</description>
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		<title>By: Regan</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/comment-page-1/#comment-562678</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/#comment-562678</guid>
		<description>Like S B-C, I might prefer &quot;condition&quot;; the &quot;dis-&quot; prefixes do put more emphasis on deficits and on otherness. Perhaps it&#039;s semantics, but I believe that verbal behavior has great power of influence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like S B-C, I might prefer &#8220;condition&#8221;; the &#8220;dis-&#8221; prefixes do put more emphasis on deficits and on otherness. Perhaps it&#8217;s semantics, but I believe that verbal behavior has great power of influence.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/comment-page-1/#comment-561819</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/#comment-561819</guid>
		<description>&quot;(Not that I can say I am much better, but I am actually prepared to be wrong and that is how research should proceed, as falsifiable)&quot;

----

Laurentius-rex:

If you stick with the criterion that something must be falsifiable, you are stuck with the superficial.  If Freud is dead, Popper is deader:

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/gardner_popper.html

If Popper is to be taken seriously, we can dismiss Darwin&#039;s theories as psuedo-science.  

There have to be valid alternate approaches to knowledge that don&#039;t  measure up to Popper&#039;s stern criteria.  Otherwise we would never have been able to retore dead languages or decipher secret codes.   One way to do this is to make a model and be prepared to discard it the moment any evidence comes along that doesn&#039;t fit.  Then make another model.  That&#039;s how Darwin did it, and that&#039;s how Freud did it.  

Freud was always ready to abandon pet hypotheses.  One of the big modern attacks on Freud had to do with the fact that he abandoned his seduction theory.  And yet, when feminist ideologues tried to reintroduce it, an ignorant witch hunt ensued in which daycare providers all over America were falsely  jailed for child abuse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;(Not that I can say I am much better, but I am actually prepared to be wrong and that is how research should proceed, as falsifiable)&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8212;-</p>
<p>Laurentius-rex:</p>
<p>If you stick with the criterion that something must be falsifiable, you are stuck with the superficial.  If Freud is dead, Popper is deader:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/gardner_popper.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/gardner_popper.html</a></p>
<p>If Popper is to be taken seriously, we can dismiss Darwin&#8217;s theories as psuedo-science.  </p>
<p>There have to be valid alternate approaches to knowledge that don&#8217;t  measure up to Popper&#8217;s stern criteria.  Otherwise we would never have been able to retore dead languages or decipher secret codes.   One way to do this is to make a model and be prepared to discard it the moment any evidence comes along that doesn&#8217;t fit.  Then make another model.  That&#8217;s how Darwin did it, and that&#8217;s how Freud did it.  </p>
<p>Freud was always ready to abandon pet hypotheses.  One of the big modern attacks on Freud had to do with the fact that he abandoned his seduction theory.  And yet, when feminist ideologues tried to reintroduce it, an ignorant witch hunt ensued in which daycare providers all over America were falsely  jailed for child abuse.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/comment-page-1/#comment-561795</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/#comment-561795</guid>
		<description>As annoying as I find cog-psych most of the time, I really like what SBC says here. In my opinion, he articulated it well. When I&#039;ve talked about giving our sons &quot;tools&quot; for function rather than &quot;curing&quot; them, and I&#039;ve said we&#039;d do that whether they were &quot;NT&quot; or not, that&#039;s what I mean. Everyone--and I mean EVERYONE--has some deficit, some area of disability that could use some help. Autism is no exception.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As annoying as I find cog-psych most of the time, I really like what SBC says here. In my opinion, he articulated it well. When I&#8217;ve talked about giving our sons &#8220;tools&#8221; for function rather than &#8220;curing&#8221; them, and I&#8217;ve said we&#8217;d do that whether they were &#8220;NT&#8221; or not, that&#8217;s what I mean. Everyone&#8211;and I mean EVERYONE&#8211;has some deficit, some area of disability that could use some help. Autism is no exception.</p>
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		<title>By: laurentius-rex</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/comment-page-1/#comment-561779</link>
		<dc:creator>laurentius-rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/#comment-561779</guid>
		<description>Larry, Autism is a phenomenon, (all things are phenomenal) a speculation and the result of some apparently deeply based human need for categorisation.

It is a phenomenon that can be viewed in a variety of ways, but above all since the impairments of autism are considered to be in the social realm I can cheerfully say it is probably the most socially constructed diagnosis of all.

Really it is about sub optimal adaptations in certain environments and the disability arises out of the systems capacity to adapt to the alternative episteme that autism represents.

I guess that is why the interface of ideas at various levels of explanation, ontological, rational, empirical, metaphysical all fascinate me.

No one ever gets behind the how&#039;s and the what&#039;s and the wheres of autism to the why&#039;s

A cause is not a reason why, because why is the cause?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry, Autism is a phenomenon, (all things are phenomenal) a speculation and the result of some apparently deeply based human need for categorisation.</p>
<p>It is a phenomenon that can be viewed in a variety of ways, but above all since the impairments of autism are considered to be in the social realm I can cheerfully say it is probably the most socially constructed diagnosis of all.</p>
<p>Really it is about sub optimal adaptations in certain environments and the disability arises out of the systems capacity to adapt to the alternative episteme that autism represents.</p>
<p>I guess that is why the interface of ideas at various levels of explanation, ontological, rational, empirical, metaphysical all fascinate me.</p>
<p>No one ever gets behind the how&#8217;s and the what&#8217;s and the wheres of autism to the why&#8217;s</p>
<p>A cause is not a reason why, because why is the cause?</p>
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		<title>By: laurentius-rex</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/comment-page-1/#comment-561789</link>
		<dc:creator>laurentius-rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/#comment-561789</guid>
		<description>Cognitive models will ultimately prove right if there proponents catch on to the notion of complexity in dynamic systems that are constantly growing and adapting to differential rates of growth within there seperate modules.
(indeed some researchers do recognise this)

Psychoanalysis and psychodynamic explanations are dead, and RAJ is somewhat cognitively blinkered in failing to appreciate the cutting edge of it all right now. A quality he shares with SBC I might add, of being all too single minded and unprepared to consider just what pyschosocial and cognitive detours in there own makeup have to say about there personalities and approach to the subject)

(Not that I can say I am much better, but I am actually prepared to be wrong and that is how research should proceed, as falsifiable)

RAJ whether you know it or not, you are actually arguing for a thoroughgoing re-evaluation of the Kraepelinian paradigm, at which point my own needle becomes stuck

RAJ whether you know it or not, you are actually arguing for a thoroughgoing re-evaluation of the Kraepelinian paradigm, at which point my own needle becomes stuck

RAJ whether you know it or not, you are actually arguing for a thoroughgoing re-evaluation of the Kraepelinian paradigm, at which point my own needle becomes stuck</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cognitive models will ultimately prove right if there proponents catch on to the notion of complexity in dynamic systems that are constantly growing and adapting to differential rates of growth within there seperate modules.<br />
(indeed some researchers do recognise this)</p>
<p>Psychoanalysis and psychodynamic explanations are dead, and RAJ is somewhat cognitively blinkered in failing to appreciate the cutting edge of it all right now. A quality he shares with SBC I might add, of being all too single minded and unprepared to consider just what pyschosocial and cognitive detours in there own makeup have to say about there personalities and approach to the subject)</p>
<p>(Not that I can say I am much better, but I am actually prepared to be wrong and that is how research should proceed, as falsifiable)</p>
<p>RAJ whether you know it or not, you are actually arguing for a thoroughgoing re-evaluation of the Kraepelinian paradigm, at which point my own needle becomes stuck</p>
<p>RAJ whether you know it or not, you are actually arguing for a thoroughgoing re-evaluation of the Kraepelinian paradigm, at which point my own needle becomes stuck</p>
<p>RAJ whether you know it or not, you are actually arguing for a thoroughgoing re-evaluation of the Kraepelinian paradigm, at which point my own needle becomes stuck</p>
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		<title>By: RAJ</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/comment-page-1/#comment-558694</link>
		<dc:creator>RAJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/#comment-558694</guid>
		<description>Baron-Cohen represents everything that is wrong with cognitive psychology trying to explain &#039;autism&#039;. Uta Frith and Baron-Cohen&#039;s belief in Theory of Mind impairments as &#039;the&#039; cognitive theory that explains all of autism fails to recognize that TOM impairments have been shown to exist in mental retardation (without autism) schizophrenia, stroke patients, elderly patients with Parkinson&#039;s Disease (but not Alzheimer&#039;s Disease). 
eg:
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&amp;cpsidt=14994194

Baron-Cohen and Frith also represents the worst of the overspecialization in medicine. He looks at autism but not other neurologically impaired populations who have the same cognitive impairments (but not autism).

His Autism Spectrum Quotient test is not a test for the presence of a developmental disability, but is rather a personality test, not surprising since cognitive psychology conceptualizes autism as a psychological disorder rather than a developmental disorder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baron-Cohen represents everything that is wrong with cognitive psychology trying to explain &#8216;autism&#8217;. Uta Frith and Baron-Cohen&#8217;s belief in Theory of Mind impairments as &#8216;the&#8217; cognitive theory that explains all of autism fails to recognize that TOM impairments have been shown to exist in mental retardation (without autism) schizophrenia, stroke patients, elderly patients with Parkinson&#8217;s Disease (but not Alzheimer&#8217;s Disease).<br />
eg:<br />
<a href="http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&amp;cpsidt=14994194" rel="nofollow">http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&amp;cpsidt=14994194</a></p>
<p>Baron-Cohen and Frith also represents the worst of the overspecialization in medicine. He looks at autism but not other neurologically impaired populations who have the same cognitive impairments (but not autism).</p>
<p>His Autism Spectrum Quotient test is not a test for the presence of a developmental disability, but is rather a personality test, not surprising since cognitive psychology conceptualizes autism as a psychological disorder rather than a developmental disorder.</p>
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		<title>By: Autismville</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/comment-page-1/#comment-553060</link>
		<dc:creator>Autismville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/#comment-553060</guid>
		<description>&quot;I am in favour of treatments that target the disabling aspects of autism.&quot;

I second that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I am in favour of treatments that target the disabling aspects of autism.&#8221;</p>
<p>I second that.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/comment-page-1/#comment-561748</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/#comment-561748</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s cool. It&#039;s sort of giving up on understanding autism, but at least it&#039;s a willingness to have an open mind.    

Even so, modern science is too quick to ignore the contributions of psychoanalysis in this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s cool. It&#8217;s sort of giving up on understanding autism, but at least it&#8217;s a willingness to have an open mind.    </p>
<p>Even so, modern science is too quick to ignore the contributions of psychoanalysis in this.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Schwarz</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/comment-page-1/#comment-561753</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Schwarz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 05:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/#comment-561753</guid>
		<description>Dr. Baron-Cohen seems to be inching closer and closer to a realization that I have been advocating for some &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.autistics.org/library/pschwarz.html&quot;&gt;13 years and counting&lt;/a&gt; now: that to move forward -- as parents, as professionals, as advocates, as self-advocates -- we must make the distinction between autism &lt;i&gt;per se&lt;/i&gt; and the handicaps secondary to autism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Baron-Cohen seems to be inching closer and closer to a realization that I have been advocating for some <a href="http://www.autistics.org/library/pschwarz.html">13 years and counting</a> now: that to move forward &#8212; as parents, as professionals, as advocates, as self-advocates &#8212; we must make the distinction between autism <i>per se</i> and the handicaps secondary to autism.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/comment-page-1/#comment-563646</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 05:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/simon-baron-cohen-on-disorder-cure-and-autism/#comment-563646</guid>
		<description>Damn!  Here I went to all the trouble to forge in the smithy of my soul the uncreated conscience of my race, but you&#039;re sticking with the tired old &quot;disability!&quot;  Well, what can I do.  It&#039;s your blog ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn!  Here I went to all the trouble to forge in the smithy of my soul the uncreated conscience of my race, but you&#8217;re sticking with the tired old &#8220;disability!&#8221;  Well, what can I do.  It&#8217;s your blog <img src='http://www.blisstree.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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