Comments on: Teaching Strategy #11: Training and the Problem With the Basket Hold http://www.blisstree.com/articles/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/ Family, Health, Home and Lifestyles Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:14:49 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Considers the whole issue http://www.blisstree.com/articles/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-565834 Considers the whole issue Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:14:06 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/#comment-565834 I think the Basket Hold issue, as being discussed here, is rapidly narrowing to bias as it's being removed from it’s greater context which is “everyone’s immediate safety and overall welfare”. It’s not just about YOUR child. Trying to generally classify this technique as BAD is just as irresponsible as generally classifying every low functioning child as being the same and treating them as such. Everyone and everything comes in degrees and in exceptions to the rules. There are few singular, one size fits all and all encompassing truths to be had here or on this issue. I also feel that calling the behaviors, that usually get addressed with the Basket Hold, “tantruming” is a parental “feel good statement” and a gross understatement even by liberal observation and definition. Slamming another kid's into the wall is not a tantrum and most behaviors that do not pose the risk of some form of injury are nor treated with the BH! When warning signs of aggressive and/or certain problematic and injurious behaviors are displayed then the best course is to always redirect and diffuse it using other less or non-physical means of prevention. You had a warning shot and time to think first. The goal is to prevent the escalation and hopefully channel it in a safe and healthy manner. Then there are the instantaneous blind rage outbursts and attacks. Triggered events. There is no reasoning with a child already in this condition. The idea of talking this child down whilst engaged in pummeling others or intense self destructive behaviors isn’t just tantamount to gross negligence… It IS gross negligence! This child must be stopped as quickly, efficiently and as safely as is possible. i.e. The "properly executed" Basket Hold. If you are the parent of a child who is on the receiving end then do you want a lengthy diplomatic solution while your child is being beaten to a pulp or do you want it stopped ASAP? You would bring a lawsuit if they didn’t stop it ASAP, right? i.e. Gross negligence! It's idealistic optional choices vs. absolute necessity in some cases. The deterrent effect hasn’t been address here. Other children in the class typically witness these events. They may or not be very low functioning but they still usually understand discipline and consequences. i.e. Deterrent by example. Has anyone here ever personally experienced what happens to an entire class when a situation isn’t controlled properly or quickly enough? You can get a very dangerous mob mentality disaster in mere seconds! Controlling one particular child may be paramount to safely controlling the entire class. All methods, techniques and processes are TOOLS. The BH is JUST a tool and the issues are not in the tools themselves as it’s being portrayed here. The BH is not a BAD tool. It’s also not and end all solution to all problems. The issues lie in the question “Was the correct tool used for the situation at hand?” Sometimes there isn’t a correct answer in the heat of the moment and it’s purely reactive or at best a frantic judgment call. The point is that YOU WEREN’T THERE when it happened and it’s all too easy to consider and judge everything in hindsight while calmly sipping you coffee as you muse over your own mentally created version of the events which of course are bound to favor your child. It probably didn’t happen quite the way it did in your mental version! At home. You don’t have the welfare of 3-15 other children to consider or to deal with. When at home, it’s all one-on-one, no other children or classroom distractions and your child has a very high home turf comfort/security factor and is there with a parent, unlike the classroom. You also don’t have social behavior issues to muddy the waters. It’s also likely that you will have an easier time and greater success using redirection and other more diplomatic techniques than a teacher because you have the home turf advantage and get to work with your child in isolation and in highly controllable conditions. School vs. home and school vs. “just you alone anywhere with just your child” is practically an apples vs. stones comparison. The supermarket incident was just HER and HER KID throwing a fit in the asile. No one else's welfare was ever a consideration! This is all a matter of degrees, a matter of perspective and a matter of viewing things correctly and each in their full context. You can create a classroom or personal disaster as easily with diplomatic approaches as you can with forceful ones if you picked the wrong tool for the job! You only need to misread little Charlie's warning signal or intent to mess that up. I doubt that even mom doesn't also make her own fair share of misinterpretations. I can’t leave without addressing the Kung Fu wisdom "bending with the grass". The actual wisdom is that the sapling bends and survives the wind while the mighty tree breaks in resistance. That is not the same as going with the flow as was implied. Kung Fu uses the opponents energy against them using the least amount of your own force and energy. I’d like to note that a properly executed Basket Hold is conducted in much the same fashion and there is where the similarity ends! Kung Fu does not work WITH another’s energy. It uses it AGAINST them! Another apples vs. stones comparison. Bending with the grass? Care must be taken even with the correct thinking of this ideal. Your bending, giving in and going with the flow may easily be used against you by your child as a tool of manulation. Throw a tantrum and pretty much get its way. That's exactly what normal kids do. Sure they settle down when they get their own way but is that the way it's best for them to be? Yes I know I that's not the intent of that ideal. I'm merely showing that like everything else it can backfire on you despite being well intentioned just like the Basket Hold or any other methods. I think the Basket Hold issue, as being discussed here, is rapidly narrowing to bias as it’s being removed from it’s greater context which is “everyone’s immediate safety and overall welfare”. It’s not just about YOUR child.

Trying to generally classify this technique as BAD is just as irresponsible as generally classifying every low functioning child as being the same and treating them as such. Everyone and everything comes in degrees and in exceptions to the rules. There are few singular, one size fits all and all encompassing truths to be had here or on this issue.

I also feel that calling the behaviors, that usually get addressed with the Basket Hold, “tantruming” is a parental “feel good statement” and a gross understatement even by liberal observation and definition. Slamming another kid’s into the wall is not a tantrum and most behaviors that do not pose the risk of some form of injury are nor treated with the BH!

When warning signs of aggressive and/or certain problematic and injurious behaviors are displayed then the best course is to always redirect and diffuse it using other less or non-physical means of prevention. You had a warning shot and time to think first. The goal is to prevent the escalation and hopefully channel it in a safe and healthy manner.

Then there are the instantaneous blind rage outbursts and attacks. Triggered events. There is no reasoning with a child already in this condition. The idea of talking this child down whilst engaged in pummeling others or intense self destructive behaviors isn’t just tantamount to gross negligence… It IS gross negligence! This child must be stopped as quickly, efficiently and as safely as is possible. i.e. The “properly executed” Basket Hold.

If you are the parent of a child who is on the receiving end then do you want a lengthy diplomatic solution while your child is being beaten to a pulp or do you want it stopped ASAP? You would bring a lawsuit if they didn’t stop it ASAP, right? i.e. Gross negligence! It’s idealistic optional choices vs. absolute necessity in some cases.

The deterrent effect hasn’t been address here. Other children in the class typically witness these events. They may or not be very low functioning but they still usually understand discipline and consequences. i.e. Deterrent by example.

Has anyone here ever personally experienced what happens to an entire class when a situation isn’t controlled properly or quickly enough? You can get a very dangerous mob mentality disaster in mere seconds! Controlling one particular child may be paramount to safely controlling the entire class.

All methods, techniques and processes are TOOLS. The BH is JUST a tool and the issues are not in the tools themselves as it’s being portrayed here. The BH is not a BAD tool. It’s also not and end all solution to all problems.

The issues lie in the question “Was the correct tool used for the situation at hand?” Sometimes there isn’t a correct answer in the heat of the moment and it’s purely reactive or at best a frantic judgment call. The point is that YOU WEREN’T THERE when it happened and it’s all too easy to consider and judge everything in hindsight while calmly sipping you coffee as you muse over your own mentally created version of the events which of course are bound to favor your child. It probably didn’t happen quite the way it did in your mental version!

At home. You don’t have the welfare of 3-15 other children to consider or to deal with. When at home, it’s all one-on-one, no other children or classroom distractions and your child has a very high home turf comfort/security factor and is there with a parent, unlike the classroom. You also don’t have social behavior issues to muddy the waters. It’s also likely that you will have an easier time and greater success using redirection and other more diplomatic techniques than a teacher because you have the home turf advantage and get to work with your child in isolation and in highly controllable conditions.

School vs. home and school vs. “just you alone anywhere with just your child” is practically an apples vs. stones comparison. The supermarket incident was just HER and HER KID throwing a fit in the asile. No one else’s welfare was ever a consideration!

This is all a matter of degrees, a matter of perspective and a matter of viewing things correctly and each in their full context.

You can create a classroom or personal disaster as easily with diplomatic approaches as you can with forceful ones if you picked the wrong tool for the job! You only need to misread little Charlie’s warning signal or intent to mess that up. I doubt that even mom doesn’t also make her own fair share of misinterpretations.

I can’t leave without addressing the Kung Fu wisdom “bending with the grass”. The actual wisdom is that the sapling bends and survives the wind while the mighty tree breaks in resistance. That is not the same as going with the flow as was implied. Kung Fu uses the opponents energy against them using the least amount of your own force and energy. I’d like to note that a properly executed Basket Hold is conducted in much the same fashion and there is where the similarity ends! Kung Fu does not work WITH another’s energy. It uses it AGAINST them! Another apples vs. stones comparison.

Bending with the grass? Care must be taken even with the correct thinking of this ideal. Your bending, giving in and going with the flow may easily be used against you by your child as a tool of manulation. Throw a tantrum and pretty much get its way. That’s exactly what normal kids do. Sure they settle down when they get their own way but is that the way it’s best for them to be?

Yes I know I that’s not the intent of that ideal. I’m merely showing that like everything else it can backfire on you despite being well intentioned just like the Basket Hold or any other methods.

]]> By: Abuse, neglect and humiliation at a public school too near to you http://www.blisstree.com/articles/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-553201 Abuse, neglect and humiliation at a public school too near to you Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:02:24 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/#comment-553201 [...] behaviors themselves. but the way they were trained to handle these turned out to be the basket hold and other physical restraints which have had lasting, and frankly bad, effects on Charlie. The [...] [...] behaviors themselves. but the way they were trained to handle these turned out to be the basket hold and other physical restraints which have had lasting, and frankly bad, effects on Charlie. The [...]

]]> By: Restraints and Rights « What Sorts of People http://www.blisstree.com/articles/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-557962 Restraints and Rights « What Sorts of People Wed, 16 Jul 2008 00:25:23 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/#comment-557962 [...] down prone on the floor, for one thing—-were the stuff of some benighted Victorian past. But physical restraints were repeatedly used on my own son in a New Jersey town we used to live in, and without the school [...] [...] down prone on the floor, for one thing—-were the stuff of some benighted Victorian past. But physical restraints were repeatedly used on my own son in a New Jersey town we used to live in, and without the school [...]

]]> By: navi http://www.blisstree.com/articles/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-553298 navi Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:59:31 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/#comment-553298 Tristan is back in his old daycare for 2 half days this summer. The girl that takes care of him on Tuesdays had helped out with him last summer and the previous school year and was excellent with him. She knows he likes deep pressure, so when she noticed he was getting upset, she came up behind him, put a hand on each of his cheeks and held him close, the pressure calmed him down, because she reacted based on what he likes. Tristan is back in his old daycare for 2 half days this summer. The girl that takes care of him on Tuesdays had helped out with him last summer and the previous school year and was excellent with him. She knows he likes deep pressure, so when she noticed he was getting upset, she came up behind him, put a hand on each of his cheeks and held him close, the pressure calmed him down, because she reacted based on what he likes.

]]> By: Kristina Chew, PhD http://www.blisstree.com/articles/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-551796 Kristina Chew, PhD Thu, 17 Apr 2008 03:00:14 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/#comment-551796 What happened with Charlie was that he'd butt his head onto the shoulder or chest of whoever was doing the restraining and then they'd have to hold onto him more and so the restraining went from 4 minutes to 45-----Chuck, I think I will keep your point in mind, though I'm not able to wrestle with Charlie, not at all. What happened with Charlie was that he’d butt his head onto the shoulder or chest of whoever was doing the restraining and then they’d have to hold onto him more and so the restraining went from 4 minutes to 45—–Chuck, I think I will keep your point in mind, though I’m not able to wrestle with Charlie, not at all.

]]> By: Chuck http://www.blisstree.com/articles/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-550649 Chuck Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:42:48 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/#comment-550649 Justthisguy, If the child does it wrong, misses, or is too weak, then that will just tick off the people who are trying to restrain the child and they will just slam the child into the ground. BT seen that I tell any teacher that thinks they are qualified to restrain a child to restrain me. I have yet to meet one or teams of two that could hold me for more than 5 seconds and I don't hurt them, which I could. I have problems of restraining my own son using techniques that do not require pain as the restraining factor. He enjoys wrestling with me and I can't hold him for long. Justthisguy,
If the child does it wrong, misses, or is too weak, then that will just tick off the people who are trying to restrain the child and they will just slam the child into the ground.

BT seen that

I tell any teacher that thinks they are qualified to restrain a child to restrain me. I have yet to meet one or teams of two that could hold me for more than 5 seconds and I don’t hurt them, which I could. I have problems of restraining my own son using techniques that do not require pain as the restraining factor. He enjoys wrestling with me and I can’t hold him for long.

]]> By: Justthisguy http://www.blisstree.com/articles/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-550617 Justthisguy Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:35:06 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/#comment-550617 Ah, now I know what "basket hold" means; basically a human straight jacket, behind you, up close and personal. That would drive me nucking futs. If I had a kid, NT or autie, I'd train 'im to resist and/or break such an obnoxious imposition. PROTIP: If somebody gets you in one of those, stomp down really hard on the top of one of his feet. Ah, now I know what “basket hold” means; basically a human straight jacket, behind you, up close and personal.

That would drive me nucking futs. If I had a kid, NT or autie, I’d train ‘im to resist and/or break such an obnoxious imposition.

PROTIP: If somebody gets you in one of those, stomp down really hard on the top of one of his feet.

]]> By: Prone Restraint Used on 7-year-old Autistic Boy http://www.blisstree.com/articles/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-551752 Prone Restraint Used on 7-year-old Autistic Boy Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:52:12 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/#comment-551752 [...] a previous school district, physical restraints—the basket hold—were used on my son when he engaged in self-injurious and aggressive behaviors We were not [...] [...] a previous school district, physical restraints—the basket hold—were used on my son when he engaged in self-injurious and aggressive behaviors We were not [...]

]]> By: Anna http://www.blisstree.com/articles/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-544561 Anna Mon, 26 Nov 2007 02:46:31 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/#comment-544561 No I actually filed a no restraint letter after the first time & they did it 3 more times. No I actually filed a no restraint letter after the first time & they did it 3 more times.

]]> By: Teaching Strategy #13: Physical Restrains, Fear, and Why We Need to Teach http://www.blisstree.com/articles/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/comment-page-1/#comment-544278 Teaching Strategy #13: Physical Restrains, Fear, and Why We Need to Teach Sun, 25 Nov 2007 11:42:55 +0000 http://www.autismvox.com/teaching-strategy-11-training-and-the-problem-with-the-basket-hold/#comment-544278 [...] “manage” a tantrum—and, as I also learned through sad and remorseful experience, physical restraints like the basket hold can be easily misused, and abused (see this Florida boy’s story). [...] [...] “manage” a tantrum—and, as I also learned through sad and remorseful experience, physical restraints like the basket hold can be easily misused, and abused (see this Florida boy’s story). [...]

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