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	<title>Comments on: The false dichotomy of genes &#8220;vs.&#8221; the environment: Responses to the NY Times</title>
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	<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/</link>
	<description>Family, Health, Home and Lifestyles</description>
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		<title>By: George Wade</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/comment-page-1/#comment-535910</link>
		<dc:creator>George Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/#comment-535910</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll try the URL again:  Methodology at: generationrescue.org/survey.html  and results at links on that page. You are invited to analyse the raw data yourselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll try the URL again:  Methodology at: generationrescue.org/survey.html  and results at links on that page. You are invited to analyse the raw data yourselves.</p>
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		<title>By: George Wade</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/comment-page-1/#comment-535909</link>
		<dc:creator>George Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/#comment-535909</guid>
		<description>Thank you Christina.

Here is another contribution that appears to be really controversial, posted here. That isn&#039;t the intention: it is simply a survey at    Nothing more than a pilot study, yet; but not to be ignored. Methodology at  and results at ...

There are non-confrontational ways of looking at studies and comparing with other organisations work.  That is what I am interested in;  not debating traditional style.

I used to insist that people should understand a study like this and change their habits within the next 5 minutes..., or at least 2 days. &quot;This shows that you should detoxify with DMSA - Why don&#039;t you?&quot;  I don&#039;t mind very much anymore: perhaps my own detoxification has made me less Asperger&#039;s Autistic? That&#039;s why I won&#039;t be going to war with this survey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Christina.</p>
<p>Here is another contribution that appears to be really controversial, posted here. That isn&#8217;t the intention: it is simply a survey at    Nothing more than a pilot study, yet; but not to be ignored. Methodology at  and results at &#8230;</p>
<p>There are non-confrontational ways of looking at studies and comparing with other organisations work.  That is what I am interested in;  not debating traditional style.</p>
<p>I used to insist that people should understand a study like this and change their habits within the next 5 minutes&#8230;, or at least 2 days. &#8220;This shows that you should detoxify with DMSA &#8211; Why don&#8217;t you?&#8221;  I don&#8217;t mind very much anymore: perhaps my own detoxification has made me less Asperger&#8217;s Autistic? That&#8217;s why I won&#8217;t be going to war with this survey.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristina Chew, PhD</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/comment-page-1/#comment-535848</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristina Chew, PhD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 18:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/#comment-535848</guid>
		<description>George, Thank you so much for joining in this exchange and look forward to hearing more from you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George, Thank you so much for joining in this exchange and look forward to hearing more from you.</p>
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		<title>By: George Wade</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/comment-page-1/#comment-535833</link>
		<dc:creator>George Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/#comment-535833</guid>
		<description>OK! I&#039;m not arguing anymore.  I&#039;ll just wait and see, patiently, how many grandchildren the gods allow us all to have.

Meanwhile I have been able to add one of the neurodiverse ideas to my armoury; thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK! I&#8217;m not arguing anymore.  I&#8217;ll just wait and see, patiently, how many grandchildren the gods allow us all to have.</p>
<p>Meanwhile I have been able to add one of the neurodiverse ideas to my armoury; thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Grace</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/comment-page-1/#comment-535821</link>
		<dc:creator>Grace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 06:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/#comment-535821</guid>
		<description>My family as well as my husband&#039;s both have what would be considered spectrum traits, but no one in our families has ever had them to the point that they were unable to function in society independently.

Yet now we have a son who falls under the PDD-NOS category who has difficulty processing language &amp; using social language appropriately (pragmatic speech disorder), an attention deficit, and some short-term memory impairment.  He also suffers from an impaired immune system and some related disorders.  

(All symptoms listed in the EPA report on mercury exposure, btw.  http://www.epa.gov/ttn/oarpg/t3/reports/volume5.pdf - see table 6-3.  My son was exposed to mercury during an amalgam replacement when I was 5 mos pregnant.  All the evidence supports this as the source of his impairments so why should we believe that thimerosal couldn&#039;t possibly do something similar?)

He is a beautiful soul &amp; a joy to have around - but we don&#039;t know if he will ever be able to live independently.

It is incredibly frustrating to see people who have spectrum traits but can still function independently in society arguing against treatments for those who can&#039;t.  

These vocal ones rail against so-called NT&#039;s (I have come to doubt that there is any such thing as normal) making decisions for them while apparently demanding the right to speak for all.  (Many of these people have difficulty communicating so it would seem that those who do not will be the only ones whose voices will &quot;count&quot;.)

It seems like we now have to come up with a new designation for our kids who need serious help so that they don&#039;t get pushed aside in the wake of those who want a monopoly on the autistic label as well as the political cause for reasons that I am still struggling to figure out.

Autism is NOT who my son is!  It has affected him, of course, but if they were to find a cure for his autistic problems, he would still be the same wonderful person that he is.  He would just be like the rest of his family line - uniquely himself but able to function as he chooses rather than as his frustrating physical circumstances currently dictate...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My family as well as my husband&#8217;s both have what would be considered spectrum traits, but no one in our families has ever had them to the point that they were unable to function in society independently.</p>
<p>Yet now we have a son who falls under the PDD-NOS category who has difficulty processing language &amp; using social language appropriately (pragmatic speech disorder), an attention deficit, and some short-term memory impairment.  He also suffers from an impaired immune system and some related disorders.  </p>
<p>(All symptoms listed in the EPA report on mercury exposure, btw.  <a href="http://www.epa.gov/ttn/oarpg/t3/reports/volume5.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.epa.gov/ttn/oarpg/t3/reports/volume5.pdf</a> &#8211; see table 6-3.  My son was exposed to mercury during an amalgam replacement when I was 5 mos pregnant.  All the evidence supports this as the source of his impairments so why should we believe that thimerosal couldn&#8217;t possibly do something similar?)</p>
<p>He is a beautiful soul &amp; a joy to have around &#8211; but we don&#8217;t know if he will ever be able to live independently.</p>
<p>It is incredibly frustrating to see people who have spectrum traits but can still function independently in society arguing against treatments for those who can&#8217;t.  </p>
<p>These vocal ones rail against so-called NT&#8217;s (I have come to doubt that there is any such thing as normal) making decisions for them while apparently demanding the right to speak for all.  (Many of these people have difficulty communicating so it would seem that those who do not will be the only ones whose voices will &#8220;count&#8221;.)</p>
<p>It seems like we now have to come up with a new designation for our kids who need serious help so that they don&#8217;t get pushed aside in the wake of those who want a monopoly on the autistic label as well as the political cause for reasons that I am still struggling to figure out.</p>
<p>Autism is NOT who my son is!  It has affected him, of course, but if they were to find a cure for his autistic problems, he would still be the same wonderful person that he is.  He would just be like the rest of his family line &#8211; uniquely himself but able to function as he chooses rather than as his frustrating physical circumstances currently dictate&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Kristina Chew, PhD</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/comment-page-1/#comment-535785</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristina Chew, PhD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/#comment-535785</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that information-----on &quot;normality,&quot; see Lennard Davis&#039; work on the notion of &quot;normal&quot; (as distinguished from a &quot;mental hospital&quot;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that information&#8212;&#8211;on &#8220;normality,&#8221; see Lennard Davis&#8217; work on the notion of &#8220;normal&#8221; (as distinguished from a &#8220;mental hospital&#8221;).</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/comment-page-1/#comment-535665</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/#comment-535665</guid>
		<description>Kristina,

Actually the first Mental hospital, Bethlem Royal Hospital, was in the 13th century. The concept of &quot;curable&quot; and &quot;incurable&quot; happened in the 18th century. We are still having that debate to this very day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kristina,</p>
<p>Actually the first Mental hospital, Bethlem Royal Hospital, was in the 13th century. The concept of &#8220;curable&#8221; and &#8220;incurable&#8221; happened in the 18th century. We are still having that debate to this very day.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristina Chew, PhD</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/comment-page-1/#comment-535667</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristina Chew, PhD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/#comment-535667</guid>
		<description>The good thing is that we can keep agreeing to disagree---can keep dialoguing---keep listening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The good thing is that we can keep agreeing to disagree&#8212;can keep dialoguing&#8212;keep listening.</p>
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		<title>By: Irene</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/comment-page-1/#comment-535687</link>
		<dc:creator>Irene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/#comment-535687</guid>
		<description>At SOME point we must agree to disagree.  I DO believe that MY son&#039;s intestinal issues with the &quot;rivers of diarrhea&quot; ARE associated with the autism diagnosis.  Changing his diet made SIGNIFICANT changes and differences physiologically (BM&#039;s and sleep patterns) but also behaviorally and verbally.  If I want to find the research to prove that (since my own experience is only anecdotal),  I could.  If you wanted to find the research that DISproves it, you could find it.  It&#039;s the beauty of the INTERNET and data manipulation.  

You will do the best YOU can to care for YOUR child.  I will do the best I can to care for MY child.  Is it all in love?  YES!  Do we need each other&#039;s approval? NO!  I, personally, like to read other points of view, it&#039;s educational and will do nothing but help me a better parent.  My hope, my prayer, is that someday my child will be able to communicate with others the things my husband and I &quot;just know.&quot;  We somehow &quot;just know&quot; what the crying/tantrum is about and can help.  Sometimes it&#039;s a guess, a good one.  Sometimes it&#039;s instinct.  Sometimes we JUST KNOW.  But sometimes we don&#039;t know and he can&#039;t tell us.  Not yet.  Whether it&#039;s typing, or signing, or pictures or words, if his acquisition of language (in whatever form) causes this &quot;autism to go away&quot; then so be it.  

I&#039;m also learning that it is important to take into account the experiences of people with autism.  Those who can share their experiences and opinions, should.  Their voices deserve to be heard.  I, already, in just a few weeks, have learned so much and gained an insight I&#039;d not had before.  But I have to remember, that each person is different, each autism is different, each experience is different.  What helps some (communication, comfort, physically) does not necessarily help many.  My husband and I, are responsible for our son.  And only WE can make those decisions for and hopefully, in the near future WITH him.  No one else has to approve.

About &quot;prevention&quot;:  Wow!  Eugenics?  I would never assume that a parent of an autistic child would mean THAT by the word &quot;prevention.&quot;  Two of our three children were surprise blessings to our family (the other was a planned and begged for blessing).  Our youngest is one of those two surprises.  This, third pregnancy was completely different because NO ONE KNOWS WHERE AUTISM COMES FROM.  Is it genetics?  Is it vaccines? Is it soda?  Is it alien abduction?  NO ONE KNOWS!  However this baby came to us we were going to love, protect, nurture and love her some more.  But still, we chose not to immunize.  Do immunizations cause autism?  I don&#039;t honestly know.  It was a hard decision to make.  What if she gets the measles or whooping cough and dies?  Could we live with ourselves?  Could we have prevented that?  It was agonizing but it was our decision.  Now, we still &quot;prevent&quot; autism.  We watch her like a hawk.  Is she developing socially?  Is she pointing?  Is she trying to talk and communicate?  Anyone can agree or disagree, approve or disapprove.  It&#039;s what parents do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At SOME point we must agree to disagree.  I DO believe that MY son&#8217;s intestinal issues with the &#8220;rivers of diarrhea&#8221; ARE associated with the autism diagnosis.  Changing his diet made SIGNIFICANT changes and differences physiologically (BM&#8217;s and sleep patterns) but also behaviorally and verbally.  If I want to find the research to prove that (since my own experience is only anecdotal),  I could.  If you wanted to find the research that DISproves it, you could find it.  It&#8217;s the beauty of the INTERNET and data manipulation.  </p>
<p>You will do the best YOU can to care for YOUR child.  I will do the best I can to care for MY child.  Is it all in love?  YES!  Do we need each other&#8217;s approval? NO!  I, personally, like to read other points of view, it&#8217;s educational and will do nothing but help me a better parent.  My hope, my prayer, is that someday my child will be able to communicate with others the things my husband and I &#8220;just know.&#8221;  We somehow &#8220;just know&#8221; what the crying/tantrum is about and can help.  Sometimes it&#8217;s a guess, a good one.  Sometimes it&#8217;s instinct.  Sometimes we JUST KNOW.  But sometimes we don&#8217;t know and he can&#8217;t tell us.  Not yet.  Whether it&#8217;s typing, or signing, or pictures or words, if his acquisition of language (in whatever form) causes this &#8220;autism to go away&#8221; then so be it.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m also learning that it is important to take into account the experiences of people with autism.  Those who can share their experiences and opinions, should.  Their voices deserve to be heard.  I, already, in just a few weeks, have learned so much and gained an insight I&#8217;d not had before.  But I have to remember, that each person is different, each autism is different, each experience is different.  What helps some (communication, comfort, physically) does not necessarily help many.  My husband and I, are responsible for our son.  And only WE can make those decisions for and hopefully, in the near future WITH him.  No one else has to approve.</p>
<p>About &#8220;prevention&#8221;:  Wow!  Eugenics?  I would never assume that a parent of an autistic child would mean THAT by the word &#8220;prevention.&#8221;  Two of our three children were surprise blessings to our family (the other was a planned and begged for blessing).  Our youngest is one of those two surprises.  This, third pregnancy was completely different because NO ONE KNOWS WHERE AUTISM COMES FROM.  Is it genetics?  Is it vaccines? Is it soda?  Is it alien abduction?  NO ONE KNOWS!  However this baby came to us we were going to love, protect, nurture and love her some more.  But still, we chose not to immunize.  Do immunizations cause autism?  I don&#8217;t honestly know.  It was a hard decision to make.  What if she gets the measles or whooping cough and dies?  Could we live with ourselves?  Could we have prevented that?  It was agonizing but it was our decision.  Now, we still &#8220;prevent&#8221; autism.  We watch her like a hawk.  Is she developing socially?  Is she pointing?  Is she trying to talk and communicate?  Anyone can agree or disagree, approve or disapprove.  It&#8217;s what parents do.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristina Chew, PhD</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/comment-page-1/#comment-535691</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristina Chew, PhD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-false-dichotomy-of-genes-vs-the-environment-responses-to-the-ny-times/#comment-535691</guid>
		<description>$6 million questions! I think all the years of therapy and teaching and physical exercise have changed the apraxia and therefore improved Charlie&#039;s language. So something like these sorts of things I am in favor of. If you mean something like some sort of brain surgery or medication, I would be much more hesitant----medications always seem to be double-edge swords----and, as time passes and I contemplate Charlie&#039;s language and learning, and the family histories of my husband and me, I think that, even if he could talk better, Charlie would still be neurologically different. Maybe he would be somewhere else on the spectrum, but the struggles with communication (in terms of conversation for instance) would be there. 

There&#039;s a difference to me between diagnosis and being &quot;diffrently wired.&quot; My very ADHD husband has been noting &quot;Asperger&#039;s moments in him---his ways of thinking and relating to people are things that have always been the case for him, and they affect not only how he deals with conversations, but also his whole worldview---I&#039;d have to write a post to explain this, I guess. 

Even if Charlie did not have an autism diagnosis, I think the neurological differences would remain. It&#039;s useful for him to have his autism diagnosis, but I can see how some families would prefer to have this &quot;taken away&quot;----if a child were to be mainstreamed and they were worried about the child being &quot;labeled.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$6 million questions! I think all the years of therapy and teaching and physical exercise have changed the apraxia and therefore improved Charlie&#8217;s language. So something like these sorts of things I am in favor of. If you mean something like some sort of brain surgery or medication, I would be much more hesitant&#8212;-medications always seem to be double-edge swords&#8212;-and, as time passes and I contemplate Charlie&#8217;s language and learning, and the family histories of my husband and me, I think that, even if he could talk better, Charlie would still be neurologically different. Maybe he would be somewhere else on the spectrum, but the struggles with communication (in terms of conversation for instance) would be there. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a difference to me between diagnosis and being &#8220;diffrently wired.&#8221; My very ADHD husband has been noting &#8220;Asperger&#8217;s moments in him&#8212;his ways of thinking and relating to people are things that have always been the case for him, and they affect not only how he deals with conversations, but also his whole worldview&#8212;I&#8217;d have to write a post to explain this, I guess. </p>
<p>Even if Charlie did not have an autism diagnosis, I think the neurological differences would remain. It&#8217;s useful for him to have his autism diagnosis, but I can see how some families would prefer to have this &#8220;taken away&#8221;&#8212;-if a child were to be mainstreamed and they were worried about the child being &#8220;labeled.&#8221;</p>
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