The truth about autism: It’s not toxic
February 26, 2007 by Kristina Chew, PhD
Filed under Health
There is a lot of mythology, a lot of lies, out there about autism. According to Anne McElroy Dachel, an autism mother and a Generation Rescue “rescue angel,” the “really big lie about autism” is that better diagnosis is the reason for the rise in the prevalence rate of autism—1 in 150 among American children according to the latest figures from the CDC. I would rather say that, to claim that vaccines, and specifically the mercury-based preservative thimerasol cause autism, is misleading and potentially dangerous.
Even more misleading, though, is what Dachel suggests that autism is. In her February 25th op-ed, The Really Big Lie About Autism, Dachel characterizes autism is an “environmental neurological disorder” and singles out thimerasol as a culprit (not surprisingly, as Dachel is a member of A-CHAMP (Advocates for Children’s Health Affected by Mercury Poisoning). While (as I note below) she cites various statistics indicating a rise in the prevalence rate of autism, she does not otherwise refer to what autism is in her op-ed on the “really big lie about autism” except that it is, indeed, some kind of poisoning of children today by environmental toxins.
The truth about autism is something far simpler, I think.
The truth about autism is our children who have autism—is autistic persons themselves—and the daily round of joys and struggles that they go through, and that parents of autistic children try very hard to understand. Some parents, like Dachel, appeal to seemingly scientific theories to explain to themselves what autism is. But, even though Dachel attempts to debunk the “lie” of “better diagnosis” as the reason for the increase in the prevalence rate of autism, in truth an op-ed like hers only increases misunderstanding about autism.
Here is one example of what autism is like—-of “the truth about autism”:
My son Charlie went for a walk in Hoboken, New Jersey, with his grandmother (my mother; he calls her “PoPo,” the Cantonese word for maternal grandmother) on Washington Avenue tonight. It was starting to snow and Charlie held onto her hand and shuffled his feet in the little piles of flakes that were starting to accumulate on the sidewalk. I was walking behind them and we had just had dinner at a restaurant, the letters of whose name—-”The Mile Square”—Charlie had read out loud for us with a big smile. He identified both the “i” and the “l” in “mile” as “l”: Charlie seems not always to see the space between the line and the dot of the “i” and so calls it “l” until this is pointed out to him. When Charlie was younger, I would have been alarmed at his still, at the age of 9, not knowing the difference between “i” and “l.” More important to me now is that he takes pleasure in reading the letters out loud, in a pre-reading skill: Charlie can identify several sight words, but he cannot yet read as far as looking at a page in a book and pronouncing the words—but this will come.
While life with autism is not easy—-as I have sought to convey in chronicling almost two years of our life raising our autistic son Charlie on my blog, Autismland—neither is it some dreadful phenomenon. “The autistic kids keep on coming, and coming and coming. They will bankrupt school systems, public services, and social services,” writes Dachel towards the end of her op-ed in language that suggests a vast horde of autistic children descending upon us and eating up all manner of resources, economic, educational, and otherwise. It is precisely this kind of alarmist statement, of a seemingly infinite number of disabled children draining our resources and, indeed, our future that is characteristic of advocates of a mercury-autism connection.
Dachel structures her op-ed in the usual way that advocates of the mercury-autism theory (such as David Kirby and Dan Olmsted) use: After briefly mentioning an opposing theory in the opening paragraphs, Dachel attempts to show the theory’s “illogical” nature, incorrectness and just plain falseness by presenting an array of statistics and other numbers from an array of sources, and by appealing to our common sense: Surely we are not so….stupid…..not to see the evidence before our eyes, so many—-an epidemic—-of autistic children.
Thus, in her opening paragraph Dachel mentions the better diagnosis theory:
About six months ago I wrote an OpEd piece called “The Really Big Lie About Autism” in which I described the persistent yet illogical claim that all the autistic kids filling speech therapy sessions, classrooms, and even whole schools, are the result of “better diagnosing and greater awareness” on the part of doctors.
She then cites the CDC’s recently released figures on the increased prevalence rate in autism (1 in 150; 1 in 94 in New Jersey) and singles out a few “experts” (Dr. Marshalyn Yeargin-Allsopp, chief of the CDC’s developmental-disabilities program at the National Center on Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities; Dr. Paul Offit, chief of infectious diseases at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia; Dr. Fred Volkmar, director of the Yale Autism Center). Dachel gives the appearance of showing the lie in their arguments by noting that, while the DSM-IV definition of autism was expanded in 1994, the 1990s were “also the decade of the dramatic increase in the number of mercury-containing vaccinations in the childhood schedule” (she none too accurately conflates a change made in the diagnostic definition of autism in one year, and one almost halfway through a decade, with the time period of the entire decade). Statistics of rising numbers of children diagnosed with autism from several states (Texas, New Jersey, New Hampshire, Michigan) are cited as “evidence.”
Dachel closes her op-ed by stating her main point in simple and clear language, the use of the device of the rhetorical question:
The truth will come out in the end, but the question is, will it be our end as well?
By “the truth,” Dachel refers to her own definition of autism as an “environmental neurological disorder” whose rising prevalence we ought to be alarmed by. A rhetorical question “affirm[s] or den[ies] a point strongly by asking it as a question” (see the Forest of Rhetoric); Dachel suggests that the notion that “autistic children haven’t always been with us or called something else” will most definitely “be our end as well” unless we wake up from the “big lie about autism” and recognize the truth.
Characterizing autism as some sort of environmentally-rooted, toxic disease, is to misrepresent what autism is by boiling it down to some kind of condition caused by a single toxic agent. Dachel draws on a predictable rhetorical structure to make and to support her claims. For the truth is already with us, in the autistic persons, of children and adults who are here and now with us, not through some theory based on some chance, and not entirely credible, correlations.
No Twyla, the point is Steve claimed such studies about the Amish exist.
“I have been doing a lot of reading on the Amish and you see that (and this is according to only a couple of studies that I have read that put a number on it) they do have some autism cases, but they numbered less than 1% of their population.”
If your opinion is that more money should be spent on autism and toxicology, I think that’s fine. I disagree, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
I suppose that’s possible, although it doesn’t seem likely. What’s going on in California? I’ve seen people who seem to share some of your beliefs claim that the increase in autism diagnoses there, followed an increase in the use of thimerosal in vaccines. Mercury exposure from thimerosal-containing vaccines has been nearly eliminated (and greatly reduced by comparison even if you include flu shots that contain thimerosal), yet the autism diagnoses continue a steady increase in the 3-5 year-old caseload cohort (the group most likely to first show a drastic drop in numbers if thimerosal was significant in the etiology of autism).
I review their website and newsletter regularly.
I prefer to watch them for free at danwebcast.com
I apologize a second time for the squawking parrot comment. It was rude. However, I think you would be incorrect in saying that I approach “the topic” in general, with scorn and hostility. I would agree that I have approached anti-vaccination “appeals to fear” especially when they are inaccurate, with some degree of irritation.
I ask because you stated:
“Inflammation has been found in the brain and nervous systems of autistic people and may contribute to problems in the brain.”
Which could lead lay people to assume this equals swelling and pain (often characteristics of an inflammatory response).
Neuroinflammation is considerably more complex and different, such that it would not be accurately explained by, “Inflammation has been found in the brain”.
“Neuroinflammation incorporates a wide spectrum of complex cellular responses that include activation of microglia and astrocytes and elaboration of cytokines and chemokines, complement proteins, acute phase proteins, oxidative injury, and related molecular processes.”
Source
Is there more than in the past?
Again, you are entitled to your beliefs, but is there any evidence that there has in fact been a dramatic increase in the actual prevalence of autism?
Especially mercury poisoning.
Link
The good old “poor mercury excretor” hypothesis. A hypothetical possibility, yet no evidence that it is true, or that such “poor mercury excretors” even exist or explain some autism.
It’s a toxic toxic world. You understand how the IDEA data for Oregon is influenced by Oregon’s selection criteria vs. DSM-IV diagnosis, right?
It comes from many sources like air, water, and breast milk too. Is there any evidence that people with autism have an impaired ability to detoxify mercury? I agree with you about epidemiology pinpointing anything. Correlation does not equal causation.
May what you present to others for consideration be accurate, and not based on appeal to fear.
Ie: Thimerosal is not 50% mercury. While it is true that it can be described correctly as almost 50% mercury (by weight), this is meaningless unless you can show how molecular weight has anything to do with toxicity. Toxicity is determined by biological action, not molecular weight.
I don’t necessarily disagree with your impression that these groups of people are intelligent. I think for the most part they are probably very intelligent. As I have heard it said elsewhere, “It’s a myth that you have to be gullible or unintelligent to be misled”.
In all sincerity, best of luck to you.
Dear Twyla,
First, I am not at all sure why all the comments that you posted did not go through—-other readers told me they had some trouble sending in comments a few days ago. You can always email me at kristina AT b5media DOT com—-I really appreciate the time you, and Do’ C, and Steve, and everyone spends writing in here. Clearly there some widely diverging points of view but I hope we can keep on talking, or at least keeping in mind all different perspectives.
I’ve posted on David Kirby—in this post for instance, back in January—-and have read Evidence of Harm, and written about it here on Autismland. I also follow Dan Olmsted’s Age of Autism series (here is one post I wrote on him), as well as the news and commentary from the ARI website, A-CHAMP, Injecting Sense, and others, as well as the commentary on Do’C’s weblog, Autism Street, on Autism Diva, on Left Brain/Right Brain, and others.
My son has had his heavy metals testing done through the Great Plains Laboratory and I have attended DAN.
Ah yes, it is always so enjoyable to come back from a trip and see that there has been a lot of debate.
Dad of Cameron, I’m am sorry that I have not responded sooner to some of your questions.
For everyone else, I am sorry if I have mislead you in anyway with any of my posts that you might have thought that I did any of this research myself. I have only read articles, reports, studies (both the ones that are in science journals and those that aren’t). Do’C, just to let you know that when I say studies, I reference the Webster’s II Dictionary, Third Edition (1. The act or process of applying the mind to acquire knowledge. 2. A close examination. 3. A branch of knowledge..-v. -ied, 1. To apply the mind to acquire knowledge or understanding of (a subject). 2. To think about: ponder. 3. To examine in detail: scrutinize.) I will add, that a lot of the so called peer reviewed, indexed,.etc. material out there is not always so trustworthy. There is a thing called conflict-of-interest, and there is a lot of that out there.
Take for example (and I know this is not referencing an article) at the most recent ACIP meeting of the CDC. A Dr. Jay Lieberman came in and gave quite a compelling lecture on the possible autism-mercury connection (or non-connection). At one point during the lecture he even mentioned that there could be possible benefits from using thimerosal. The only thing was, before he gave his lecture he forgot to mention that he has been a consultant to Merck, GSK and Sanofi-Pasteur, and is on the speakers’ bureaus for all three vaccine-makers. (it can be looked up) So I would say that a lot of what he had so should have been ignored. Unfortunately the ACIP board, who has been known to have several conflicts-of-interest in the past (Dr. Offit most notable), ignored this and proceeded to make their recommendations based on this lecture.
So one of the first things I look for when I read articles and reports (and some of the peer reviewed studies) is if there are any conflicts of interest. I’m quite sure Do’C does that too, right?
Now, when I present some of my information for discuseion, I’m sorry if some of the things I have said resemble a lot of someone elses thoughts, ideas, remarks,.it’s probably because they are pretty much the same as mine. And just like Do’C, I am not a doctor or a healthcare professional. But unlike Dad of Cameron, I don’t run a web-site (or is it just a web-blog?) or a newspaper, I just pass on information that I find pertinent and really don’t worry about that sort of stuff. Plus, I am not a professional writer (trust me, it’s quite obvious), I don’t make a living off of writing, and if I can find a short cut I will.
Now, to answer some other questions:
Hasn’t thimerosal been removed from vaccinations since 2003?
No, it is still in vaccinations. We already know that it is still in the flu vaccine, it’s also still in the HebB, Meningococcal, Tetanus and Diptheria, HepA&B recombinant, encephalitus, (found it in one)polio, (and one) typhoid, and the antibiotic rosephin (insert was from one and a half years ago). And let’s not forget that all the vaccinations that were manufactured in 2002 still had thimerosal and were never recalled. So a lot of those shots were still being used well into 2005 (and some probably into 2006). *disclaimer: this information was taken from vaccine inserts available at any pediatricians office*
Is there more mercury in the environment?
I would have to say yes. If we had no coal burning plants, the mercury released in the burning process would not be in the environment. (it would probably still be in the ground) In addition, there are other manufacturers who release mercury into the environment. (This is just one example)IE: Merck and Aventis: Both had been fined in New Jersey for releasing mercury into the environment.
Please remember that I am not saying that mercury/thimerosal (a mercury derivative: Influenza Virus Vaccine Fluzone 2006-2007 formula, insert, Sanofi Pasteur [How's that O' Do'C?]) is the lone culprit out there, but there are many different environmental toxins that I believe could affect a child, or a fetus.
Perhaps Do’C you can look into some of the new research on RNA/DNA that is out there. In one article..(http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jan/genetics/) it discusses how RNA could possibly issue it’s own commands and alter what genes do in the next generation. “Michael Skinner (Am I getting the hang of this Do’C?) of Washington State University announced that his lab rats inherit, epigenetically, their parent’s propensity for a variety of humanlike diseases, including breast cancer, kidney disease, and high cholesterol. His results suggest that a parent’s exposure to toxins – or simply bad diet – could harm her childrens for generations to come..” (there are a lot of good articles about this subject)
So, I would think that it could be possible, that the more toxins we recieve growing up and into adulthood could be translated onto our children making them even more susceptible to reacting to toxins in their lifetime.
I have mentioned so many times before, I base a lot of my beliefs on what I have been through with my children. Yes, we have done chelation on both of my boys and it seems to have done well. Do’C has written several items on the non-excretor myth, but I really don’t believe it’s a myth. My oldest son during his first three rounds of chelation did not produce any mercury at all, but on the fourth round it came out like you wouldn’t believe. Our Developemental Pediatrician had explained to us that you have to remove a lot of the other toxins before the body will release the mercury. In his particular case, it seemed to be so. Where as my youngest son excreted the mercury and aluminum right of the bat. (Could it be a conspiracy that my son’s test results didn’t show the mercury until the fourth chelation. I don’t buy it.)
So I have to ask Do’C, why is it that you feel there could be no link between between toxins and autism? Have you done any of these tests or chelations with your son? I just find it hard to understand why you feel such an animosity towards people like myself who want to find some answers. I would not have loved my sons any less if their particular condition was purely genetic. But my wife and I would have done them a great disservice if we had not done what we did.
Sorry so many of you seem to be having such a hard time being civil to each other. Also sorry that those of us who have read research from people who are just as scientifically valid as ones cited from CDC, or like groups, are sneered at because they aren’t of the other person’s belief group, isn’t that the way it goes? Then all I have is anectdotal experience with a grandson who is said to be autistic, to have seen him go from an uncomprehending drunken child to a calm individual from taking therapeutic amounts of vitamins, minerals, supplements and the GFCF diet, is valid proof to me. To hear his neurologist ask what had been done to him to turn him around as he was 100% different than when she last saw him 3 months ago… she was referring to his demeanor and general behavior, is valid proof to me. 8 years later, he still doesn’t talk, isn’t potty trained but has made progress in comprehending and cognition, some of it that could be attributed to experiential living, I suppose. But, since autism can’t be cured, it seems illogical to say that aging can make them better… what is better? In his current level of functioning, he wont be able to live alone as an adult. Will he change to improve to be more self functioning? He is schooled at home. He should be receiving intensive schooling and many physical therapies which he wont get. There isn’t money to pay for it nor enough therapists to provide for the influx of autistic kids who have been taken to hospitals, therapists and public schools. He wouldn’t get that there either as most public schools special ed departments are woefully inadequet to educate and train the autistic child…from what I’ve actually seen or heard from many parents of autistic children. If the child is fairly high functioning, the word some of you don’t like but describes the level of cognitition well enough for us ‘lay folk’, then the child can be taught. Part of that also means that they are compliant. But those who are low functioning or not compliant are also taken to public schools where they receive little more than strong arm baby sitting, aren’t taught much. In my grandson’s district, he was turned into the CPS as needing more than public school could provide and was forced to attend a governement funded special school 200 miles from home. Many of the wilder kids have this happen to them. Some of them are forced to sign away their kids to get help for them, to the ’system’, whatever that is. Thank God we were able to manage visits and home time. He ’served’ 1-1/2years there. On release, he was no better than he had been and physically somewhat sicker as they weren’t required to give him any vitamins, supplements,etc.,just the special diet, which their physician decided we didn’t know anything about and played around with giving him normal diets until he was very ill. They didn’t potty train him either so ‘they’ kind of got off our backs with their demands. But due to the fact that he engaged in some fecal smearing at school, the teacher didn’t want him back but the school wouldn’t out-n-out say that. So, to avoid more trouble, the parents elected to home school as much as possible and find outside therapies, as much as possible. I saw many autistic children at that school while visiting and whether anyone likes the terms I use to describe them or not, doesn’t matter, only shows their lack of understanding, they were wild children, most of the time uncomprehending. We also do what we can and hope to bring our children into the realm of reason, whether anyone calls that statement ‘nice or not’, it’s the truth. Whether anyone else has experienced any change to their physical health from using these ‘alternative therapies’ or not, I always ask – how long did you try them? Most dont’ realize that this is probably a life time lifestye change. Trial periods of months just don’t get it. But there is another thing I’ve learned about commenting on boards like this one; when the autistic person gets on them, you can count on several things; they insist that they are always right…and everything else is trying to get rid of Them. They ignore the truth that ‘our’ laboratory tests are as legitimate as theirs, and that lab test that show our kids are toxic is a reality that must be dealt with, biologically, by whatever means we’ve found effective, even from other’s anectdotal experience. Of course, most parents are liars or ignorant; meaning they can’t discern if their child has improved or not or would be dumb enough to have been hoodwinked into saying there was improvement when there wasn’t…that’s a big problem that plagues a large majority of the medical community too; Id est; parents know nothing because they aren’t as educated as we are. Egocentric. Another thing I’ve learned is when autistics get on a board is that you can’t reason with them because they haven’t the capacity to understand beyond their own nose. So are a lot of other so called NT people that way. But to me, it’s a characteristic of the disorder, yes a disorder. if it wasn’t a disorder, it wouldn’t have been named as differing from what the medical personnel call NT, that’s all I mean about that comparison. They just don’t understand. They get fixated on an idea and it’s right, be damned of other’s experiences and observations. Then for anyone to say it’s wrong to call these ASD kids a toxic waste dump, they don’t understand the nuance of meaning inherit in that ‘label’. We don’t love our kids less but we don’t like what’s been done to them to make them collect toxins beyond what medical science expects, they’ve been dumped on with toxins by someone or something. So many jump to the conclusion, formed by someone else, that by doing therapies, we are trying to do away with them and ‘their kind’. NOthing could be further from the truth. We all have differences and diversities, we accept that as just being human, no two alike, etc. What I Think is, that many who make such statements have never been around or seen such a child as so many of us are ‘getting’ now, the wild ones, the sick from whatever and wherever in their bodies. It’s not understood that if our child were as competant as they are, we’d be estatic. Picture the old movie of the mental institution, The Snake Pit, That’s what so many of our kids are like. They can’t go out the door alone, they can’t dress themselves or feed themselves. Don’t you dare to tell me that we are trying to do away with autistic people, that’s not even a consideration. OUr kids are sick, physically ill. They need care to help them settle, become calmer, hoepfully to become teachable and reasonable. This doesn’t preclude the idea that there is an underlying cause for all of these aspects of this ASD disorder, a complex causative, and it should be found before some radical decides to go Hitleresqu on us and really do away with our autistic kids, or throw them into warehouses, the way many ‘foreign’ countries do. They’re not true autistics anyway, they are neurodevelopmentally damaged with physically damaging aspects too. They need both sides of the therapy ‘angles’ of medical, complimentary or allopathic, and teaching and the many physical therapies but there’s fat chance they’ll get it when their contemporaries stand on the sidelines with their fists in the air at us who do ‘try everything’. We need to stand together, not apart. We don’t want to do away with the autistic but if there is a way to prevent such brain damage from happening, yes, find it. Life is tough enough without having to struggle with diversities that can make it harder for the person who has them. No, I don’t want a cookie cutter poplation either. I just don’t want any more sick kids if it can be prevented. Otherwise, why bother to find cures for anything medical? Well, that’s my rant for the day, If it wasn’t comprehensible, try to figure it out, I’m not gonna’ redo it. AND, there are no spaces between paragraphs because I have webtv and it wont post that way. I too have to sometimes use the to indicate paragraphs… that’s all there is in webtvland. Please. let’s stand together to get help for our newer generation. So we don’t post or quote so ‘different people’ can understand it, and it’s not perfect, but then, who is? Or What is? Regards and god Bless, grandma peg
“Another thing I’ve learned is when
autistics get on a board is that you can’t reason with them because they
haven’t the capacity to understand beyond their own nose”
So much for being civil or for the nt skill of empathy. Your attitude will not help to reconcile the hurt behind those voices you rile against. I’m talking about emotions here (I don’t argue about the possible toxcity factor because I’m not into that much biology, beyond neuroscience; I try to be some small voice of translation between worlds). I understand being annoyed when people won’t use reason; I run on logic. Just remember there are reasons people – on ALL sides – get their emotions running about this.
It happens that I just logged because I have a question. I was wondering what the standards are behind chelation. Are people tested for heavy metal poisoning before hand or do you not know if there is metal before it comes out?
I have something more extensive to say and will write it out eventually—it’s clear many of us (all of us?) have lots of emotions on this issue and that says a lot to me.
grandmapeg, my son has done many or all of the things that you refer to regarding your grandson. Understanding of his being autistic and many efforts to teach him (some in the wrong direction, at times; one learns from one’s mistakes) have helped him to find other ways to express himself, to deal with his own sensory overload, and more. I have seen plenty of the “bad” of autism and I wonder why these are the thing that are constantly referred to. What about all the good our children and autistic relatives and friends and colleagues bring into our lives? My son is the same lovely child whether very upset or smiling as I turned on a CD in the car this evening. He is beautiful even when he struggles; he is beautiful because he struggles with the challenges given to him, and always tries so hard. But why do we only emphasize the tough things, as if to suggest that the rhetoric of horror, hysteria, and sensationalism is the only way to talk about autism?
Everyone has a different experience but our kids are great kids who will become great adults. My son’s academic skills are all hard and slowly earned but at 9 years and 10 months old, he is simply better in control of himself and his impulses, able to anticipate his anxiety and do something about it. He has also benefited from early intervention and much specialized teaching, but in the past year he has seemed to blossom. Not in any miraculous ways, unless one counts a “peaceful easy-feeling boy” who walks behind me on the sidewalk, carries the shopping basket, waits in long lines amid crowds, runs to practice piano when I ask him, as the littlest of miracles; as small blossoms making their way up through winter soil, slowly crumbling as spring warmth nears.
I grew up with autistic individuals who did not know they were autistic and perhaps still do not, but who are. In some cases, some of these persons have suffered tremendously due to their inability to understand social information. By mentioning this, I do not mean to say that I wish these people were not autistic; autistic, whatever it might called, is who they are and they have given me a lot in life. But there are ways some of the suffering might have been alleviated, and their experience, and their willingness to share it and expose themselves, can only help, if we can only listen.
I mean to keep listening to everyone.
Marcie,
In the case of our eldest son, we had our developemental pediatrician evaluate him to try and figure out things about him (ie: gross motor skills, speech, etc.) After his evaluation the pediatrician recommended some internal allergy tests. (Now please people try to remember that we are but plain educated parents and not physicians so I am passing on what we had been told.) These tests are different from what we refer to as external allergy tests. The internal allergies are things that affect your gi tract and possibly how you digest foods, etc.
When we had done an external allergy test on him we found that he had no allergies. But, when we did an internal allergy test we discovered that he had a severe allergy to dairy. To describe it,.on a scale of 1 to 1000, he was a 1420.
Additionally, from what we have been told and some of the reports that we had read, when a child has internal allergies, or overall a lot of allergies, it is a possible sign of metal toxicity/or a toxin buildup in their system.
But, with our son and a lot of the children we have helped, as soon as we got him on a gluten/whey/dairy free diet, we saw an immediate improvement. (our son still had the allergy though) We were then told that once you remove toxins from the system, the body will lose the allergy. In our oldest son this eventually happened. He is no longer allergic to dairy.
So, going back to your original question: Once we discovered that our son had the internal allergy, we suspected metal toxicity and did a trial chelation.
And now going back to one of my other posts,.when we got the lab results back after the chelation, we found that he excreted several different metals/toxins but no mercury. As most people already know, mercury does exist in our environment and we should be excreting a little mercury every day. But in our sons case, he was not excreting any at all. To our developemental pediatrician, this was a bad sign. It supposedly meant that my son had a very large toxin buildup in his system. We were also told that we would have to get rid of a lot of the other toxins before the mercury would come out. It would not be until the fourth chelation that we saw the mercury starting to come out, and when it did, it came out like you wouldn’t believe.
So, this is my childs story and I am sorry if you don’t believe it, or you think that what we did is snake oil medicine. But all I know is that it worked for my two boys and the 20 families that we have helped as well. And I hope this answered your question Marcie.
That was a very touching and beautiful response, Kristine. Thank you.
sorry, Kristina, typo.
A lot of emotion in the writing here—-
Grandmapeg,
You’re a bigot. That’s the WORST KIND of NT. Worse than a toxic waste dump and a cesspool put together, all wrapped up in a person.
Because BIGOTS don’t change.
Understanding far further out than the end of my autistic nose,
Kassiane
Dear Kassiane, you couldn’t be more wrong, I have no bigotry to the autistic but do believe they have certain characteristics which make their reasoning different from the so called NT, and therefor, the conclusins of each are most often not in sync. As for bigotry, you also seem to express bigotry against anyone who doesn’t agree with you, possible against any NT’s? The label seems to aptly apply to both sides in some cases. To Marcie, what I said was not meant as a slam against autistics, I do believe it’s true of what I have observed of many of the replies/answers from the autistic, but forgot writing style and added an adage in the ’statement’. Logic… isn’t that a point reached by reasoning? I think I understand what you mean, reasoning without the influence of the emotional feelings over riding the process, is that it? In younger years, I only thought I was using that method. Got to the age of realizing that emotions can cloud the issue, that reasoning was better even if emotion was the driving cause. Or, as an adage, the ‘what the hell’ attitude, ‘what will it matter to anyone in 100 years from now’? But of course, we have to live with the here and now. I’m not mad or resentful of the way in which the autistic mind ’seems’ to me to process – anything. However, those who say autistics have little or no emotion about anything are wrong. I think – they feel a range of emotions and express them also, but perhaps their range of highs and lows may be farther apart. In that case, fewer differences from the NT as it seems there’s a lot more so called NT’s with the same expressions of reactions ‘these days’. I still mean it when I say we should be working togethter to get today’s autistic kids the therapies they need from whomever is the provider for the public. To the question of ‘are tests done to determine if heavy metals or toxins are present’, was answered above by Steve (?) ‘when we got the lab tests back’- regarding heavy metal and/or mercury excretion. Yes, laboratory tests are supposed to be done before any chemical agent is given for chelation. First, a hair analysis may be done, same as the CDC requires, for any older deposits of metals coming out, then a blood test to show any newer exposures to metals but mercury specific as it doesn’t circulate in the blood a long time, only after recent exposures, then a urine test to see if any metals are being filtered out of the system – a recent, now, presentation of elimination system working and to what extent it is working. Not sure if the CDC does all of these or not, not familiar with their protocol beyond the hair testing which they do for lead only. Oh, yes, the CDC/FDA does chelation by the same methods ‘we’ do. The physical behaviors are also observed as they might relate to characteristics shown in people who do have metal toxicity. That’s apparantly why Steve continued on with chealation even after lab tests were somewhat blank, devoid of the results they expected to find. The CDC does many things no different than we, labeled alternative, do but since we’re not Them, it’s called quackery by many. If it’s quackery for us, then it’s quackery for the CDC also. The same as many of the more ethereal therapies such as aroma therapies, light therapies are also called quackery by some licensed by AMA or CDC. Of course, even a medically licensed person will tell you to not sniff glue, gasoline, a mix of bleach and ammonia, paint dust, etc. which are also aromatics with molecular floating particles, but of course, Their list of aromatics cause a reaction but aroma’s of other ’stuffs’ don’t, according to that logic. And what of the use of light therapy for billirubin? Genuine medical personnel used this for one of my children when his billirubin count was high. It wasn’t for the heat of the light. Might as well add homeopathic remedies… minute bits of ’stuff’ given in solution to sensitize or desensitize the body system… but what are vaccines but little bits of stuff, germs in their case, given to sensitize or desensitize the body system. So it should show that my real rant is about the system of beliefs that our dog’s bigger than your dog..an adage I apply to those who hold to this philosophy, by which I meant that because our/their text books say our/their methods are better than yours so yours are no good, and quackery. But now, back to the autistic person, I love our grandchild whether he has an affectation or not. If he never progresses beyond what he is, or has, today, I will still love him, I am active in helping the whole family as well as him as much as possible but physical mileage between us makes hands on help by daily application difficult. I wish there were not so many miles between us. Some years, I’m at their house often, every month, some years, it’s months in between. Do I celebrate his differences? Yes. Do I appreciate his diversities? Yes. Do I try to contribute to improving his learning, health and behavior? Yes. But no matter how much we should praise or appreciate his ‘just being’, that does not improve him or should I say develop him further? He can develop further. He can learn more. The same goals we would set for an NT child, albeit in a different methodology. But you see, his loveliness is not a problem, his inabilities to function are a problem, more for him and his future than ours, our inability to secure professional help is a problem, his illness is a problem, so that’s why ‘we’ talk about that the most. It’s what he needs and what he lacks in caregivers and physical care for the very real physical ailments that are the problem. That’s what drives us to talk about the problems more. And it’s because of the changes seen when these problems are finally treated, in some degree, that makes me say this is not autism. The ASD label was adopted.. because the ASA took us under their wing when we needed an organization to empower us… but it has backfired. No one in power seems to be listening to us any better than they did before we adopted the autistic label. They’d rather stick their heads in the sand and say, ‘oh, that can’t be’ to everything proposed to them about these kids because of the autistic label. I think ‘that type’ thinks, but these are autistic kids, they can’t be helped so why pay attention to them anyway? As if we were a waste on society. Therin lies my anger, not against any autistic person or person who has autism, however you want to say it. Many brain and physical ailments may cause a person to present behaviors that are considered by the AMA or medical ‘community’ as being ‘autitistic’. I propose that’s what we have in the regressive autism ASD child… another kind of brain damage and physical ailment that isn’t ‘textbook autism’. Please, now, don’t take that as a slam against autists either. Those are statements to try to correct a popular misdiagnosis. There are physical ailments with a majority of the ASD kids and That’s what we’re trying to heal. We’re not trying to ‘cure Autism’ in the sense of doing away with anyone truly autistic. No matter what is in the name of some organizations who include those words. One of the personnel of the governmental agencies said, speaking of ‘us ASD’ers’, that we choose or press to be labeled autistic because we wouldn’t otherwise be entitled, by government agencies, to get ‘benefits’… sad.. but true. And that still doesn’t mean we are eschewing the autitst. I’d like to add another comment about what I consider a trait of the autist, and this is meant to be a positive; with their sense of ‘no frills’, the person trying to ‘prove a point of their belief’ better have the correct backing with citations and info. They seem to have a penchant for details, What you say has to be proved by some ‘credible’ source. And There’s the Rub.. (didn’t Shakespeare say that?)… we come back round to whose source is credible and whose is not? Is your dog really bigger than my dog? Or is that just a choice of perception? God Bless, grandma peg
Can’t read long spaceless posts…
There’s no reasoning with NTs who can’t even find the “return” key. Or who think it’s acceptable to call children AND ADULTS toxic waste dumps. Or who assume people believe what they have never stated a belief in.
Thank you Kassiane for the reply. In the previous post, I did say that I have a WebTv set-up and it doesn’t behave the way pc’s do. I’ve tried more than one way of posting ’stuff’ to get proper paragraphs and spaces but it wont post that way. I can block it out the way it should be but when the post goes up, it’s just one long letter. >>Please try to differientiate between a physical body being called a toxic waste dump or calling a person(ality) a toxic waste dump. After all, ‘our’ ASD kids are distinct personalities, worthy of life, respect, dignity too, as autists are also, but these kid’s bodies have been poisoned and damaged, by accident or by design, mostly after birth, by some people who place the money above the health effects on a person, be they child or adult. Do you think we would call them derogatory names which would denigrate them? Don’t think so. >>>And if a comment doesn’t apply to you, why get stirred up over it? Here’s another experiential ‘thing’ which I’ve seen happen over and over… if it’s a comment that’s a crticism, those who try the hardest to accomplish tend to listen and feel guilty… I’m guessing it’s because they wonder if they could do more, and guessing maybe because they want more good results, the same as does the person receiving. I think the people who don’t think that way, may be the ones who need to take the comments to heart, as instructions to better their ‘doing’, they seem to be the ones who smirk and throw the comment in the waste basket and don’t bother to try any better. In other words, those who are concientious in the doing tend to listen and those who aren’t, tend to pay no heed.>>> Sorry I tend to get outrageously long in comments. I will try to pay heed to both your suggestions; try to find another way of organizing the posts or make them shorter. God Bless, grandma peg
Language and words can say more than one means them too, whether consciously or unconsciously…..
Sorry Dr. Chew, I’m not deciphering the comment to satisfaction. The intent to redirect emotion I think I got from it but it remains largely cryptic to me. If you have time, could you please be more exact? Yes, I have to have a lot explained to me too. grandma peg
I was thinking that, when writing about autistic persons and what we perceive “them” to do, it is sometimes easy to say exactly the opposite of what we mean. Just when we think we are showing our understanding, the opposite might be the case. This is a concern I have encountered in my own writing about my son; I like to think I am open-minded and willing to learn from anyone, only to find that I am not, and that there are some problems in how I represent him.
“So, this is my childs story and I am sorry if you don’t believe it,”
I just think it’s important to remember (this comment goes out to Grandmapeg to) that probably the major reason as to why autistics don’t follow the heavy metal idea (aside from not like having their bodies called toxic waste dumps, however it’s stated) is because they see it in their families. I’m not saying that others factor don’t come in at least *sometimes*, but when you’ve grown up with family members with these traits, then you tend to come to accept it as a variation of the genome.
And I see plenty of Charlie in relatives on both sides of our families.
We are our bodies.
Our personalities live in our brains, in the synapses and neurons and neurochemicals and all of that. Calling our bodies toxic waste dumps is calling US toxic waste dumps. End of story.
What applies to autistic children applies to autistic adults, for they will grow up to be like us. We were like them 10 or 20 or more years ago.
Autism lives up and down my family tree. And when speaking to literal people, remember that we will take it most literally.
Well, I can see that you’re not going to understand what I said, maybe just from the way I stated it or maybe because you can’t or don’t want to. I don’t think I said the opposite of what I meant, I think I said exactly what I meant. I’m not trying to hide any underlying ‘feelings or thoughts’ about the autistic person. However, it seems that some of the responders want to think of themselves as a victim. Of whom or what, I couldn’t say at this time and I’m not a mind reader.>>>>>>>>Seeing autism as a family genome, I understand that. I understand that whomever we are, we see ourselves and our family as within those perameters. As Temple Grandin said, she thought everybody thought in pictures because that’s what she did. Isn’t that pattern ot thinking ‘theory of mind’? What is ‘normal’ to us makes us believe it’s normal to everyone? She learned to understand that her own life is not a pattern of other people’s lives. Having gone through that in growing up, I understand that.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Again, I still ask you to try to understand that a physical condition is not ‘you’. It may affect you, it may impact you but it is not You. No, Autism isn’t toxic but the bodies of autistic can be – sick, ill, and need healing. If you’ve ever had a sore throat, do you think the sore throat is You or do you think your body has has an ailment… one which might cause you to behave in a different way than you usually do? Or a broken limb, which would do the same?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> About ‘literal people’, thank you for the term. Just last night, I was recalling a sister in law who has applied a literal aspect to her life and her children’s lives. Once, when we were visiting them, one of her kids dropped a box of toothpicks on the floor. She wasn’t mad or upset, just told him to pick them up (to throw away). His Dad came in and asked what had happened. His son said, ‘I dropped this box of a million toothpicks’… and then, his Mother did get ‘annoyed’. She asked him to repeat what he said, so he did. She said stop lying! There isn’t a million toothpicks, there’s a lot but not a million. Then she made him read the box to get the exact count of them off the box. Then she told him she didn’t like liars and there was no reason to lie about it. Just so you know, she didn’t remain ‘angry’. She was otherwise a bright, cheery person but she would not let anyone exagerate in language in her hearing. She never called such as an exageration, it was always a lie. None of the ‘vernacular’ off hand speech escaped her notice. Descriptions had to be exactly as they were. That’s what I call literal but think she is overboard when she calls anyone a liar for an exageration. But I digressed, for the purpose of showing an example of ‘literal’ that I’m familiar with. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kassianne says that many of the autists (Posting) were like our grandson is now, years ago, but that, I seriously doubt. I’ve been to autism conventions, I’ve seen functional autists and talked with them and KNOW they just didn’t grasp how seriously out of touch most of our ASD kids are. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the poster who kind of poked fun at the kids on a recovered kids video.. that attitude is somewhat like a neuro-behavorist’s attitude we met about a year ago in that Children’s Hospital. She was pointing out all that was wrong with our boy, that is how dysfunctional, while we were happy with any improved functionality we saw in him. Made me think that ‘expert psychologist’ was comparing him to ‘normal’, in fact she added after our points, yes but that’s not what you’d expect of a ‘normal’ 8 year old, is it? SHE Didn’t get it. Why was She, the ‘Expert’ comparing our boy who has autism with a ‘normal NT’ scale anyway? >>>So, the kids on the video may not look ‘recovered’ to you, but to us, their independence and functionality has been recovered.So what are You comparing those kids to?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>We think he has potential and his 1 on 1 thought so. We will be happy for him if he improves that much. And since brain damage can be healed to even greater extents nowadays, he very well could fulfill a greater potential than his Children’s Hospital specialists think.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, I now have veggie gardening work to get to and a trip out to make next week so I might not be on here for awhile. I do appreciate the learning I get from everyone who posts here. God Bless, grandma peg
Grandma Peg, thank you again for writing in here. Your love and concern for your grandson rings clearly in your every word and I thank you tremendously for your sharing so much here.
I’ve seen images of my brain. I have seen images of a neurotypical brain.
They are DIFFERENT, on CT, SPECT, and MRI. Nothing post birth could cause that. My SPECT pattern in particular is very very very not NT.
My brain IS ME. I also have celiac, which is NOT me, and a literal pain in the butt. Celiac doesn’t change how I think, just how I eat. Autism defines how I experience every electron of this world. And the sore throat example is ridiculous, as a sore throat (and no, I have never had one. Ever. Including the 2 times I had strep) is temporary, and autism is permanant regardless of level of independance skills. A dad at my gym was telling me about autistic code breakers in the Air Force. That’s pretty high in the independant living department, no?
And accusing me of not trying to understand is hugely insulting. It’s also a sign of a very closed mind. I try to understand, what I can read in the huge paragraphs. But we don’t see eye to eye.
Calling a PERSON toxic is something I will NEVER agree with no matter WHAT the intention.
Author: Kassiane
Comment:
(K)-I’ve seen images of my brain. I have seen images of a neurotypical brain.
(K)-They are DIFFERENT, on CT, SPECT, and MRI. Nothing post birth could cause that. My SPECT pattern in particular is very very very not NT.
(G-peg) The one scan the neurologist did on my grandson appeared to be ‘normal’. The gene studies done on him showed nothing unusual. There were several types of DNA tests done. One was the FISH- the sub-telometric -something or other- which looks for deletions of genes or damaged genes.None found. Dr. said, ‘we don’t know what this is he has but he certainly has something, as is obvious by his affectedness’.——————
Many of the New Regressive ASD kids are the same. Perhaps even the majority. That’s why I say this ASD is Not autism as defined by medical science. Yet, their brains are affected so they present characteristics of the behaviors attributed to autism. Many disorders have such an affect. That is not Kanner’s classic autism.—————————————————- (G-peg)-I don’t think it’s true that the brain can’t be changed in shape and function post birth. There are many happenings that can change the brain post birth. Accidents and injuries to the head, inside and out, can change the contours and functions of the brain. And change the personality too. —————————————————————-
(K)-My brain IS ME. I also have celiac, which is NOT me, and a literal pain in the butt. Celiac doesn’t change how I think, just how I eat. Autism defines how I experience every electron of this world.—
(G-peg)-In my opinion, celiac does affect the brain and ‘how’ it thinks so that it’s What you are, And Who you are. Everyone’s brain can affect how they experience or define those experiences in each one of us, in my opinion, of course.———————————-
(G-peg)-Celiac is, of course, a controllable disfunction of the body. It is What you are…and can effect the personality of Who you are, for a time, or until it’s under control.———————–The brain, is a part of the body, it affects who you are by function and by directing perceptions and the personality expression. ———————————-There may be less choice in ‘how’ an autist interprets or express their thoughts. Some may have no choice because some function is not there to begin with or not connected in others. Is that what you mean? ————This may be too fine a line for My brain to interpret and mind to express rightly. ——-When a person is ‘accused’ of an act and then that person is characterized as not showing any remorse or caring… I wonder if they’re deadened by a disfunctioning nurture or nature. An age old argument that’s still being researched.—————- Who they are may be interpreted by their acts. Which may not be correct.———
(K) And the sore throat example is ridiculous, as a sore throat (and no, I have never had one. Ever. Including the 2 times I had strep) is temporary, and autism is permanant regardless of level of independance skills. —————————————————————————————
(G-peg)- Hopefully, sore throat is temporary. Strep without pain? I’ve read that this may be a peripheral nerve deadeness. Some strep throats are actually fungus sore throats but appear to be strep.
Fungus throat may not have pain or big pain or fever. Strep has a fever that comes and goes. Most streps cause pain to most people. Throat tissues are gray with red streaks. Fungus throats can be red, gray, black and white.
Many people with celiac have extreme fungus/yeast in the gut and body systems.
Many Doctors mistake one for the other.
Anyway, it was just used as a comparison scenario example, not an actual analogy, for the context. Since we know autitstics can learn, advance and change, the ’state’ of
‘being’ autistic may also be altered in some autists. The path of function may or may not be changed. I don’t know. Supposedly, all brains can form new neuronal structures. It’s the time life of them that’s affective. Of course, it may be that an altered brain of form or function will always be within an autist. A dysfunction caused by brain damage may or may not always be with a person. Your brain structure and function may have influence on how you think and what your personality becomes. It is a part of your body. However, your brain is not you. The personality is the you I’m speaking of.—-
- (K) A dad at my gym was telling me about autistic code breakers in the Air Force. That’s pretty high in the independant living department, no?———————————————————————————–(G-peg)-Never said autistics were unintelligent. We think our grandson has high intelligence but experts can’t see it because of the types of tests they do. Nor do they live with him 24/7 to observe. Movie, Mercury Rising was such a scenario. A 9 year old autist solved a top secret word puzzled code. I don’t believe people’s talents should be wasted either, just because they have a ‘label’ which an old interpretation classes as a mental illness, which autism is not.———————————————————————–
(K)-And accusing me of not trying to understand is hugely insulting. It’s also a sign of a very closed mind. I try to understand, what I can read in the huge paragraphs. But we don’t see eye to eye.
—————————————
(G-peg).-There was a choice of terms – you chose to believe one as an accusation. Closed minds are applicable to either ’side’. We may agree more than you now comprehend. Fixating on one term as being an accusation about you could denote a closed mind in your direction??
——————————————————————————(K)-Calling a PERSON toxic is something I will NEVER agree with no matter WHAT the intention.—————————————————-
(G-peg). I AM a toxic person. If my health therapist said this to me, I’d understand what they meant. They wouldn’t mean I was worth less or degenerate but ill in the body and systems.
The speaker denoted in the opening statement of this page was speaking to a group of people who understood that in the same way I do.
Most people today are toxic in the body from inhaled and ingested toxins. They are not worth less because of being ill. They need therapies to cleanse the body.
Toxins affect the mind as well as the body.
The mind could be functioning better if the brain and body were cleansed of any toxins. That speaker probably had no idea that some autists would be so egocentric in the interpretation on hearing or reading thereof. It was a broad statement , the concepts of which were understood by the majority of hearers.
Autist or not, you probably still have the choice in how you perceive word meanings. Or do you Not? I’m trying to understand too. If statements don’t apply to you, then why adopt a feeling of personal offense at all? ——-
Most NT’s who wish to interact with their autistic relative(s) try to learn the language of interpretaion of the autist.
At the same time, they speak to those who understand, (already known to them) – the details of meanings behind a word or phrase, the inferrences, concepts and beliefs without further defining that speech. Whether that is within the understanding of every autist or a few, being varied in affectation, I don’t know. It’s sort of like tech language.
That speech was not spoken to the autist, per se.————————————————————– We need to be bridges in the gap between the perceptions and concepts of NT’s and Autistics. Not people who become insulted from word nuances they may not be comprehending. —————————————————-There are technical languages in professions. I don’t understand most technical language from an area I’m not trained ‘in’. That’s why most of us ask a medical person to explain what they tell us. They are apt to have used some tech language. We try to find an interpretation to comprehend what was told to us. And that’s just an example.——————————————————–Regards again, grandma peg.———————-(an nonliteral user of adages and colorful adjective vernaculars).
I’m extremely literal in interpretation. Expressively I can use metaphors, but receptively I have an extraordinarily hard time with them…about the closest I can come to understanding them is similes related to science, which is how my gymnastics coaches teach me uneven bars–physics similies. Otherwise, literal is pretty much what I have.
The strep tests came up positive, but there was no sore throat…it’s apparently fairly common in autism, lots of autistic people and autistic-ish people in Montana, they see it all the time here. Both times it acted more like meningitis than strep (had viral meningitis a few times more, THAT hurt).
Big words I’m good at…metaphors, no…which is why being called toxic hurts. Because I’m not. I’ve seen the numbers. I have unusual brain structure & glucose usage. It’s not toxic, it’s DIFFERENT. They showed me the brain pattern of toxicity and it’s just not the same…scallopping vs totally different usage…
I thank you, Kassiane. That was a very informative post of info. I did learn a lot from it. I’d like to know more about the changes in the brain due to toxicity, if you have that. I’ve never heard that.
I have heard of differences in glucose usage as a ’sign post’ in the errant systems of the ASD kids.
You are right to say that you don’t like being called toxic because you’re autistic and medical tests say you’re not harboring toxins. Part of my point is that the speaker isn’t saying the ASD kids are toxic becaue of autism. In the case of the ASD kids getting various medical therapies, most have had Some kind of laboratory tests that show They Are toxic… harboring toxins in the bodies and brains. So again, that statement is not directed at nor descriptive of the true Autist, because of Autism, nor even all ASD kids.
I have heard of another ASD child being taught by referring everything to their main interest, railroad trains. That is one of my grandson’s captivating interests too, railroad trains. Both he and the one I read about love Thomas the Tank engine. His Mother has CD’s for teaching that include quite a bit of R.R.trains and those lessons are the ones he pays attention too. We need to find more like that.
Regarding your physics similies, I’ll be short on material in that way. I’ll first have to look up some examples in the dictionary of similies. So that’s your particular ‘language’. I’d forgotten about the indvidual language according to interests and you recalled and defined it for me.
We have some success with music therapy which uses sort of similies. Grandson loves music and singing instructions to him gets right to his learning center.
It might be a kindness to write to the speaker who is mentioned here in the page title to remind all of us that the true autistic is also listening to speeches when autism is talked about. All the speakers (and writers) who refer to ASD need to understand the effect their words are having on others who aren’t ’speaking their
language’ in comments about autism.
I’ve tried to make many understand that ASD is Not autism, it’s brain damage from the encephalitis caused by… whatever. These days I hear encephalitis spoken of more in the ASD circles.
To call ASD’s something other than autistic is going to be scarey. Many May lose their Medicaid or Waiver’s support if someone in government medical organizations identify this as a result of encephalitis. Of course, no one in government is too eager to do that because Then They have to look for the cause which may end up on their doorstep. My opinion again.
You’ve made a lot of inroads today, in my understanding. I hope I can retain it. Since I have slowed down on visits to my grandson’s, there’s a lot of this kind of info I have not used, forgotten or didn’t know. Thank you again.
Regards and God Bless, grandma peg
On the SPECT scans I had, when I didn’t concentrate…they did a concentration scan and a non concentration scan…it was smooth and even in the general external view. Internally is a whole other thing (and I’m WAY more of a neurology nerd than a physics nerd, even, science just makes SENSE! so if I talk over you I’m sorry, I forget that people don’t know everything I know). There were a few overactive areas in the deep brain, particularly in the cerebellum-this isn’t even typical of anything and the clinic had never seen it before-and in the areas that control anxiety & mood. My temporal lobes and the thing that connects the 2 hemispheres were also weaker than they should have been.
But on the concentration scan, WOAH. There was a BIG hole in the parietal lobe, which controls sensory integration, of which I have, er, none. And a bigger hole in the concentration place, which makes sense as I have trouble controlling the direction my concentration goes. My temporal lobes vanished completely. And the spots that control mood swings got bright white–the most blood flow of all. My cerebellum also stayed bright white.
There was also what is called “scalloping”. At the time I had adult metal poisoning, from my living situation. It has since been treated with no effect on any neurological symptom except my seizures and some neuropathy. The scalloping on my scan was on the top down view of the surface of the brain, and it looks kind of like someone takes a scoop into ice cream or sherbet. I can probably scan & upload pics on my blog later this week if I don’t forget (easier said than done) along with what the report said about it. The DOCTOR at that clinic was a total numbskull but the scan techs were pretty good.
To my mind, if an infant gets encephalitis & it resolves with autistic symptoms as a residual, the child still is autistic, at least governmentally speaking…the whole walking like a duck and quacking like a duck thing. Medically it might be something different (like I pee all the time because my pituitary doesn’t work, my grandma pees all the time because she has a prolapsed bladder, we both need to utilize the facilities frequently and that’s that) but symptomatically it has the same effect. Encephalitis causing autism is, I hope, rarer than we hear and just has the loudest parents because encephalitis, and meningitis, are just MISERABLE to have.
I hope your grandson grows up to be the best, happiest HIM he can be.
Kassiane
To suggest that your repost of a good portion of Wagnitz’s essay as your own is plagarism, has nothing to do with research or any reading you’ve done.
Feel free to produce those couple of ’studies’ by whatever definition you choose which would fit this statement:
“I have been doing a lot of reading on the Amish and you see that (and this is according to only a couple of studies that I have read that put a number on it) they do have some autism cases, but they numbered less than 1% of their population. In another study that I read they linked all but two cases of ASD to toxins in the environment.”
Readers can decide if the studies have scientific merit, if they’re stories in a newspaper, or something else.
I agree. Although the peer-review as part of the scientific method is desired, it is not a gurantee.
I don’t know. Why don’t you read the most recent post at Autism Street. Tell us if you think pointing out the potential conflicts of interest for authors of any of the research cited by Michael Wagnitz, or even potential conflicts of interest of Wagnitz himself were a priority.
Get a grip, we’re talking a nearly word for word cut and paste.
So plagarism is okay if you’re not a blogger?
So plagarism is okay because you’re not paid, or because it’s easier?
Pssst, Steve, you’re ethics are showing. That doesn’t make you wrong about the science, but you could probably aim a little higher for yourself.
All what vaccinations that were manufactured in 2002 that still contained thimerosal?
“N.I.P. estimated the amount of thimerosal in provider vaccine inventories in a survey conducted September 20, 2001 to February 20, 2002. The targets were a convenience sample of providers getting site visits from public health officials across the country. Inventory counts were done of all refrigerators for D.T.a.P., Hib, and hep B pediatric vaccines. The thimerosal classification was based on the lot number information, which was verified by the manufacturers. In September 2001, 225 sites were canvassed, and 447 by February 2002…During the visits, the providers were surveyed about thimerosal-containing vaccines in their inventories. Of the 447 interviews, 83.5 percent reported no thimerosal-containing vaccines in stock at any time since October 2001”
Link
Any evidence that the “non-excretor” myth is true?
Sounds miraculous. Total mercury from 24-hour collections? Written up as a case study? – Or mercury expressed as a ratio to creatinine from a spot collection?
Please go ahead and explain it to the readers here.
I don’t feel that at all. There could be a link. It is possible. Do you have any evidence that it is true?
In general, I try not discuss my son directly on the internet.
Your intentions are not in question. What you’ve presented as fact, and what you’ve presented as your own work are.
So what difference does is make if a poster paraphrases what they read from a known published author. A nearly word for word posting I’d think was a paraphrasing. So that poster didn’t say it was such. So what? Why is it that there has been a resort to personal degredation? Many Many people write out a paraphrasing of what they’ve read or heard from an established author, without denoting the source. It may be incorrect to leave out the source of that material when one is trying to establish a basis for others or to reinforce their beliefs. That could be a reason to ask them to cite their source(s) without condemning the person’s entire ethics structure.
I think I do a lot of paraphrasing without citing a particular author who wrote it. Most of the time, I don’t recall who did say what I’m recalling except what particular group those words came from. I may be trying to prove a point by saying what an author said that I agreed with.
That doesn’t mean the reader or listener is going to agree with my opinion any more or less.
Why are you so intent on calling another an intentional plaguarist because they paraphrased and didn’t cite whom they were phrasing from? I didn’t understand the poster who did the paraphrasing as saying it was his research but that it was his reading of ‘his study’ of another’s research report. He just didn’t say who the author was nor should there be a need to when paraphrasing, in my opinion.
This seems to be calling that poster a liar because he didn’t say whose report he read and then paraphrased. Calling all of his ethics to account because of that is a condemning judgement call that is not necessary.
You might have asked if the source you cited is where he got his info and then asked him, in future posts to be sure to cite any authors whose info he derived his statements from – even if it were just so you might think him more ‘credible’.
Asking the posters of info to cite where they got info from isn’t a bad thing. We should know and be able to post that info to referrence for others to read.
It doesn’t appear as if that would make a difference in your opinions. The ASD info sites that were suggested in that above post would probably not have been taken as being credible
anyway.
In those several above posts, websites were given where a person could visit to read the same information, or the same type of information. These are credible sites to many ASD care givers. But they are just as credible as the Federal governmental agencies.
Neither so called ’sides’ Know everything there is to know regarding Causes of Autism. From their speculations comes the directions for their area of research. Each one has an array of ‘experts’ who can point out the errors of ‘the other’in the ways and means used to arrive at a statistical report.
All research is speculation, in my opinion. Or perhaps it’s the research reports that are specualtion.
In my Opinion, the defending arguements of each group will be believed by whichever ‘expert’ each person chooses to believe. Until each group says they have found the same results in their research, we could remain divided. We should not be divided. We have a common goal. To provide help for the Autistic person, if they need or want it. To prevent any future cases of autism that might have been caused by controllable factors.
Regards, and God Bless, grandma peg
[Autism Vox] New Comment On: The truth about autism: It’s not toxic
Date: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:45 PM
Author: Kassiane
Comment:
On the SPECT scans I had, when I didn’t concentrate…they did a concentration scan and a non concentration scan…it was smooth and even in the general external view.
(K).Internally is a whole other thing (and I’m WAY more of a neurology nerd than a physics nerd, even, science just
makes SENSE!
(G-peg). Science is not always reliable. Ideas are stated as facts then later changed, altered or refuted by ‘other’ scientists.
However. some basic factors of science are irrefutable such as the structure of a majority of the skelatons of humans, animals, etc.
But perhaps if the ideas of science are stated in a clear way and more succinctly, that may be perceived as rational because they can be observed by anyone.
(G-peg).I have a daughter in law who says she believes only in what can be proved by science. She has several PhD’s which makes me find it hard to believe that she doesn’t see that not all of science is provable fact. Some is philosophy which doesn’t make a statement provable scientifically.
(G-peg). But I think I understand what you mean. Science is your language.
(G-peg).The working MRI, I think is a concentration scan. Electrodes attached to the head and a running scan is shown on the screen of changes in the various areas of the brain when the person being examined is given tasks to do. Maybe that’s technically called a SPECT? This is what I wanted my grandson’s neurologist to do but that Dr. has to have a specific request from the parents for this. I haven’t been able to convince either parent that this would be useful.
(G-peg)His Father thought an 8 hour neuro scan that uses a cap with electrodes they proposed to do about 4 years back, was because the hospital wanted to provoke siezures. As you know, seizures are damaging. Grandson takes 2 kinds of seizure meds. When he’s had seizures, he’s seemed to have lost much of what he had learned and had to start over. I doubt the doctors would want to provoke seizures unless it was to study the seizures. The EEG’s pretty much locate the brain areas where his seizures take place.
(G-Peg).This cap arrangement might be the active working scan… didn’t ask.
(K)There was also what is called “scalloping”. At the time I had adult metal poisoning, from my living situation. It has since been treated with no effect on any neurological symptom except my seizures and some neuropathy. The scalloping on my scan was on the top down view of the surface of the brain, and it looks kind of like someone takes a scoop into ice cream or sherbet. I can probably scan & upload pics on my blog later this week if I don’t forget (easier said than done) along with what the report said about it. The DOCTOR at that clinic was a total numbskull but the scan techs were pretty good.
(G-peg). and I’llbe interested in seeing those. I have a book, ‘Brain Facts’ a primer, that I read. Have yet to get through it but it’s very understandable. Free from
the Society for Neuroscience. Yes, I trust it’s science to be true. It’s a basics info book.
(K)To my mind, if an infant gets encephalitis & it resolves with autistic symptoms as a residual, the child still is autistic, at least governmentally speaking…the whole walking like a duck and quacking like a duck thing. Medically it might be something different (like I pee all the time because my pituitary doesn’t work, my grandma pees all the time because she has a prolapsed bladder, we both need to utilize the facilities frequently and that’s that) but symptomatically it has the same effect. Encephalitis causing autism is, I hope, rarer than we hear ——–
(G-peg). this is the newest info I have read. I suspected it all along. Newborn grandson had the ‘cry of the cat’ type of high pitched screaming and crying. He took a position of arching his back and rubbed his little head while ‘talking’ around the pacifier. His fotanel was raised only slightly. He dew up his legs while arching, mistakenly guessed at as colic by me, I had No Idea it could something else. The baby doctor wasn’t too concerned either. The baby was unconsolable. He would look right in my eyes and do this sobbing blabbering. It was painful to me too. I could hardly believe that he was cognitive enough. It began when we brought him home from the hospital delivery.
(G-peg)> When we went to pick up Mother and baby, she said he’d had his shots and exam. I said .. what shots? Mother said – his immunization shots. I said- babies aren’t supposed to get shots. They don’t have an immune system yet to cope with vaccines. Then Mom got a little defensive. After all, she thought she was doing ‘the right thing’. I wasn’t there when the medical personnel told her of these ’shots’ so I don’t know hoe they presented their reasons for the newborn to have these shots. If I had been, they would have been delayed until he was older or they’d pay the price of a grandma’s anger. So, it was too late for him. He turned red all over, which didn’t seem the norm to me but no one else, medical personnel, seemed to notice… or they just didn’t say anything to me if they did.
(G-peg). That’s the reason I think he had encephalitis from those damnable neworn shots. William Shaw, PhD., laboratory owner and researcher, has been the one becoming more public about the encephalitis though it has been suggested-proposed as a factor in this regressive autism/ASD. He probably has info posted on his site, the Great Plains Laboratory.
(K). “just has the loudest parents because encephalitis, and meningitis, are just MISERABLE to have.”
(G-peg). More than miserable, Kassiane. It’s very damaging to many. I would think infants would be more susceptable. But, since ‘we’ can’t prove theories both ways, of with or without that is, we have to rely on what our experience has shown us, tells us.
(G-peg). I think it was Dr. Jeff Bradstreet who propsed that these sick children have encephalopies of many areas of their bodies… which I guess could be called inflamations. This includes the brain, the pancrease, the liver, the gut, and the Central nervous system. Research has to prove whether their experinces are fact or theories.
(K).I hope your grandson grows up to be the best, happiest HIM he can be.
Kassiane
(G-peg). Thank you very much, Kassiane, sincerely. I know you mean that as I can feel the love expressed in it. We hope so too.
(G-peg). I excerpted only parts of your reply as you know. Answers from me weren’t any shorter, sorry. Looking back over the other posts I made, they are convoluted. It’s a wonder anyone got the meaning of them. My thoughts aren’t arranged as rationally as I think they are … so that’s a hope that better clarity can be achieved.
(G-peg). God Bless, I’m going to finish garden chores and then be absent from home for about a week. I look forward to viewing your info. grandma peg
An EEG and a SPECT are different…EEGs are the electrode things, I hate them hate them hate them! I’ve had several, for difficult seizures. They effect my speech most, and some motor skills. They evaluated me for surgery but not a candidate, too many areas of abnormal activity.
A SPECT is sort of like a functional MRI except the pictures look different and it’s newer. fMRI you also have to do things while in the scanner I think, and there’s a greater chance of problems with the contrast medium. The SPECT scan had a radioactive tracer, which sounds alarming but it doesn’t stick around long at all and almost no one has an allergic reaction to it–I wasn’t even making cortisol when I had mine (medical problems NOT related to autism are a PAIN), and cortisol mediates the allergic system, and all I got was a little rash. That’s the biggest allergic reaction they’d ever seen with some huge number of patients. MRI contrast is related to iodine, which a lot of people are allergic to (not me, go figure).
They’re interesting tests, but I’m sick of having my head scanned. It’s BAD when the ER seriously considers asking me to look at someone’s CT scan because it’s midnight on Christmas Eve, he’s my adoptive brother, & no one is there to read it so they’re having to email it halfway across the globe. Too many brain pictures.
Then you don’t understand the definition of the word “paraphrasing”.
Here’s what the Capital Times published from Michael Wagnitz:
Here’s what Steve wrote:
Does this look like “paraphrasing” to you?
Just a word about paraphrasing, quotation, and citing of sources (I used to teach composition and writing to college students and still teach my students about these topics whenever they write essays for me).
1) Always cite your source—website at least.
2) Paraphrasing is when you restate someone else’s words in your own words, versus direct quotation. In writing college research essays, one is supposed to cite the source when directly quoting and when paraphrasing, or it can be grounds for plagiarism (in a university context; the internet is a different story).
3) It’s definitely a huge help to readers to cite sources and also (I think, but keep in mind my background) strengthens the credibility of one’s argument if one cites where one gets one’s information from.
Hey, everyone -
Check out the April “Discover” magazine’s cover story on autism. Very interesting.
ASA cites the article here. Regarding Martha Herbert on the environment and autism, I wrote Why are we seeing more autism?: “Environmental injury” vs. “better diagnosis” back in December.
Whether we like it or not, toxins in various forms are present all around us and affect every aspect of our lives.
Hi to All, Im going to paste an info article regarding Mercury in vaccines and ASD children. It originates from Geier and Geier, a Father and son, Father is an M.D.and son , I forgot his title of training… think he is/was a writer of medical research material.. not sure. But here will be the instance of -are my experts as creditable as the Federal Government agencies… but here it is;
*(Note the use of the word.. encephalopies…).
Subject: Thimerosal Linked To Autism: New Clinical Findings
Date: Monday, April 23, 2007 10:05 PM
Thimerosal Linked To Autism: New Clinical Findings
Press Release Contact:
For Immediate Release CoMeD Director [Rev. Sykes (Richmond, VA) 804-364-8426]
April 23, 2007 CoMeD Sci. Advisor [Dr. King (Lake Hiawatha, NJ) 973-263-4843]
WASHINGTON, DC The Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Medicine, Part A: Current Issues, an authoritative journal featuring original toxicological research, has published, A Case Series of Children with Apparent Mercury Toxic *Encephalopathies* Manifesting with Clinical Symptoms of Regressive Autistic Disorders, by Geier and Geier (2007).
This new study leaves little doubt there is a direct causal link between mercury exposure from Thimerosal-preserved biological products (vaccines and Rho(D) products) and mercury poisoning diagnosed as an autism spectrum disorder (ASD).
Thimerosal (49.55% mercury by weight) is a highly toxic mercury compound used as a preservative in some OTC and prescription drugs, including most flu shots given to pregnant women, infants, children, adults, and the elderly.
On April 19, 2007, Dr. Larry L. Needham, Chief, Organic Analytical Toxicology Branch, CDC, announced to the US National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine that Thimerosal was among the Chemicals Linked to ASD.
Thus, Geier and Geier (2007) provide the first clinical case-series of ASD patients that confirmed this causal role for Thimerosal-preserved drugs in patients having a regressive ASD diagnosis.
The Geiers describe a case-series of eight patients who had:
a regressive ASD diagnosis,
elevated levels of androgens,
excreted significant amounts of mercury after a chelation challenge,
biochemical evidence of decreased function in their glutathione pathways,
no known significant mercury exposures except from Thimerosal-preserved vaccines and Rho(D)-immune globulin preparations, and
other alternate causes for their regressive ASDs ruled out.
This clinical study also found a significant dose-response relationship between the severity of the ASD symptoms and the total mercury dose these children received from Thimerosal-preserved drugs.
Based on differential diagnosis, these patients evaluated were exposed to significant mercury amounts from Thimerosal-preserved biologic drugs during their fetal and neonatal development as well as between 12 and 24 months of age.
Thus, these initially normally developing children suffered mercury toxic *encephalopathies that manifested with clinical symptoms consistent with their regressive ASD diagnosis.
Hence, mercury poisoning should be considered as a cause for those children exhibiting the symptoms of an ASD in any differential diagnosis designed to assess underlying causes.
Today, any parent or other healthcare provider can easily confirm whether, or not, a non-chelated autistic child is mercury poisoned by having urinary porphyrin profile analysis (UPPA) testing run at LabCorp (Test#120980) or Laboratoire Philippe Auguste (Urine Porphyrin Profile).
For additional information on UPPA testing for mercury poisoning,
please visit the UPPA page on CoMeDs web site, http://www.Mercury-freeDrugs.org.
Or request :
A Case Series of Children with Apparent Mercury Toxic
Encephalopathies Manifesting with Clinical Symptoms of
Regressive Autistic Disorders
be sent to you as an attachment by
emailing Nancale@aol.com
(NanCY cALE is V.P. of Unlocking Autism.org)
Althought the Fed. Gov. issued orders that thimerosol be discarded in use of children’s vaccines, it doesn’t mean the manufacturers did stop using it. Also, no matter how many samples of Dr’s and Lab’s refrigerators have been done, not all have been sampled. Besides which, the medical people holding such vaccines were given permission to continue to use them for ‘a certain time’, so some kids could still have gotten mercury they couldn’t excrete. I will try to get a legit source for that info too… later. grandma peg)
See http://neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/109/lupron-geier-index regarding Mark and David Geier, and the extent to which their writings are at all credible.
Geier and Geier aren’t a credible source. The journal they were published in retracted them, and the whole testosterone thing was based on test tube conditions that can’t occur in humans (unless you have hot benzene running through you, I sure don’t).
And younger Geier, for some perspective, is my age. His training isn’t medical in any way. I wouldn’t want me making decisions on injecting children with a powerful endocrine alternator.
Just kind of makes one raise an eyebrow or 2.
If mercury is the “cause” of autism, then why all the new diagnosis if they have removed the mercury from the vaccines?
Better understanding of autism; increased ability to detect and identify autism among parents and professionals—-one could say that there is an “epidemic of discovery about autism” today.
Mrs. Chew
Your very wrong when you say that most our here because they believe that mercury in the vaccination shots didnt cause there childs autism. My sons name is Ryan and he turned 9 years old March 30,2007 and was perfectly healthy until his last shots of MMR and DTaP shots containing Mercury. He was accepted to the National Vaccine Act in April of 2004. If the CDC was 100 percent sure and if you are 100 percent sure that mercury that is contained in the vaccination shots used only as a perservative of the shots doesnt cause nuerological disorder such as autism. Please show me proof not even the CDC can show you proof that the thermisol shots containing mercury doesnt cause autism. You stated that your son charlie is an only child so what other children of your own do you have it to compare it to? I have 3 kids so i do know the difference all my kids have the same father and my other 2 children are completely healthy and have had them tested so its not genetically linked. I live with my child everyday and i know how he was before he was given his last set of shots. Which since he received them i have not allowed him to receive anymore shots being he has been in the Thermisol mercury civil suit since he was 3 yrs of age. I would recommend that parents do get Non-thermisol shots for there children if they insist on getting there children the MMR and DTaP shots before the age of 3 yrs of age. Its a hard road and only gets harder the older your child gets. I would walk thru fire for my child like im sure every parent would. I have fought for every service my child receives and thats not counting i also have Muscular Dystrophy myself. But as you know when you have a child with severe autism you have to think of 50 yrs from now when your not around. “How will my son make it when i am no longer able to care for him?” My son Ryan is nonverbal, not potty trained, has an IQ of 20 and is in the age group between 12 and 24 months with an attention span of 60 seconds. I am the only voice that can speak for him and yes i can be very verbal and very impatient with people that treat you like you are ignorant to the needs and the well being of a child you spend every waking moment thinking about and taking care of like a baby. But until we have hard evidence we cant rule nothing out and take away the things that are being questioned like mercury for example and see if it slows down children from developing this awful debilitating disease we call A-U-T-I-S-M.
Ms. Chew, Where did you learn to write? It’s unbearable to try and read your writing. Take this for example. It’s a sentence that goes absolutely no where.
“The truth about autism is our children who have autism—autistic persons themselves—and the daily round of joys and struggles that they go through, and that parents of autistic children try very hard to understand.”
@Ari H,
clearly I still have a lot to learn! Many thanks.