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	<title>Comments on: The White Flag?</title>
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	<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-white-flag/</link>
	<description>Family, Health, Home and Lifestyles</description>
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		<title>By: Autism Vox 2008 in Review: June &#38; July</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-white-flag/comment-page-2/#comment-558527</link>
		<dc:creator>Autism Vox 2008 in Review: June &#38; July</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-white-flag/#comment-558527</guid>
		<description>[...] Autistic Self-Advocacy Network President Ari Ne&#8217;eman and I were interviewed for a Good Morning America segment on neurodiversity in early June&#8212;-a show which provoked quite a bit of discussion. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Autistic Self-Advocacy Network President Ari Ne&#8217;eman and I were interviewed for a Good Morning America segment on neurodiversity in early June&#8212;-a show which provoked quite a bit of discussion. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rapamycin Reverses Learning and Memory Deficits in Mice</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-white-flag/comment-page-2/#comment-544525</link>
		<dc:creator>Rapamycin Reverses Learning and Memory Deficits in Mice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 08:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-white-flag/#comment-544525</guid>
		<description>[...] commented about the study on an earlier post; the researchers&#8217; association of intelligence with learning and memory is particularly [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] commented about the study on an earlier post; the researchers&#8217; association of intelligence with learning and memory is particularly [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-white-flag/comment-page-2/#comment-552237</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 02:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-white-flag/#comment-552237</guid>
		<description>Oooh, curious...

Of course, with mice, it&#039;s hard to say exactly what the changes are (mice aren&#039;t going to get at those subtle details). So that makes it hard to say. 

I&#039;d also like to know how they knew it was &quot;exactly the same condition&quot; as typical autism seen in humans. In other words, how much are we looking at a subset of autism or not? Do we know what the outcomes of this group are when provided specific education for autism (ABA is one, though I&#039;m not limiting it to that) versus the rest of the autism population? I can&#039;t say I know enough to say if tuberous sclerosis autism would resemble the autism that myself or Charlie would have. 

In my experience, with the &quot;overfocusing/underfocusing&quot; thing, it largely seems that it&#039;s a matter of social communication and isn&#039;t actually all that innate as to the &quot;important details&quot;. Indeed, I see such things missed by non-autistics once the category gets out of the &quot;commonly socially communicated&quot; category (say, take an English speaker learning a foreign language. Until there is more training as to where to focus, the focus is dictated by previous experience with language, not with the meaning). 

So... lots of questions, before a more solid opinion.

Cliff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oooh, curious&#8230;</p>
<p>Of course, with mice, it&#8217;s hard to say exactly what the changes are (mice aren&#8217;t going to get at those subtle details). So that makes it hard to say. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d also like to know how they knew it was &#8220;exactly the same condition&#8221; as typical autism seen in humans. In other words, how much are we looking at a subset of autism or not? Do we know what the outcomes of this group are when provided specific education for autism (ABA is one, though I&#8217;m not limiting it to that) versus the rest of the autism population? I can&#8217;t say I know enough to say if tuberous sclerosis autism would resemble the autism that myself or Charlie would have. </p>
<p>In my experience, with the &#8220;overfocusing/underfocusing&#8221; thing, it largely seems that it&#8217;s a matter of social communication and isn&#8217;t actually all that innate as to the &#8220;important details&#8221;. Indeed, I see such things missed by non-autistics once the category gets out of the &#8220;commonly socially communicated&#8221; category (say, take an English speaker learning a foreign language. Until there is more training as to where to focus, the focus is dictated by previous experience with language, not with the meaning). </p>
<p>So&#8230; lots of questions, before a more solid opinion.</p>
<p>Cliff</p>
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		<title>By: Kristina Chew, PhD</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-white-flag/comment-page-2/#comment-556732</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristina Chew, PhD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 00:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-white-flag/#comment-556732</guid>
		<description>This point stood out to me, from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sciencecentric.com/news/article.php?q=08062238&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Memory is as much about discarding trivial details as it is about storing useful information,&#039; said Silva, a member of the UCLA Department of Psychology and UCLA Brain Research Institute. &#039;Our findings suggest that mice with the mutation cannot distinguish between important and unimportant data. We suspect that their brains are filled with meaningless noise that interferes with learning.&#039;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So would an increase in &quot;intelligence&quot; be a lessening of this &quot;meaningless noise&quot;?  This makes me think of Charlie&#039;s propensity to hyperfocus on somethings and struggle to direct his attention to others: He&#039;ll get stuck on the shapes of the letters and then struggle to understand the sounds and phonics.

---thanks for posting the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nm1788.html&quot;&gt;abstract from Nature Medicine&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This point stood out to me, from <a href="http://www.sciencecentric.com/news/article.php?q=08062238">here</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Memory is as much about discarding trivial details as it is about storing useful information,&#8217; said Silva, a member of the UCLA Department of Psychology and UCLA Brain Research Institute. &#8216;Our findings suggest that mice with the mutation cannot distinguish between important and unimportant data. We suspect that their brains are filled with meaningless noise that interferes with learning.&#8217;</p></blockquote>
<p>So would an increase in &#8220;intelligence&#8221; be a lessening of this &#8220;meaningless noise&#8221;?  This makes me think of Charlie&#8217;s propensity to hyperfocus on somethings and struggle to direct his attention to others: He&#8217;ll get stuck on the shapes of the letters and then struggle to understand the sounds and phonics.</p>
<p>&#8212;thanks for posting the <a href="http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nm1788.html">abstract from Nature Medicine</a></p>
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		<title>By: Regan</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-white-flag/comment-page-2/#comment-556729</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 00:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-white-flag/#comment-556729</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t had a chance to look at the entire paper, but this is their abstract of what they were looking at,
&quot;ABSTRACT
Tuberous sclerosis is a single-gene disorder caused by heterozygous mutations in the TSC1 (9q34) or TSC2 (16p13.3) gene1, 2 and is frequently associated with mental retardation, autism and epilepsy. Even individuals with tuberous sclerosis and a normal intelligence quotient (approximately 50%)3, 4, 5 are commonly affected with specific neuropsychological problems, including long-term and working memory deficits6, 7. Here we report that mice with a heterozygous, inactivating mutation in the Tsc2 gene (Tsc2+/- mice)8 show deficits in learning and memory. Cognitive deficits in Tsc2+/- mice emerged in the absence of neuropathology and seizures, demonstrating that other disease mechanisms are involved5, 9, 10, 11. We show that hyperactive hippocampal mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) signaling led to abnormal long-term potentiation in the CA1 region of the hippocampus and consequently to deficits in hippocampal-dependent learning. These deficits included impairments in two spatial learning tasks and in contextual discrimination. Notably, we show that a brief treatment with the mTOR inhibitor rapamycin in adult mice rescues not only the synaptic plasticity, but also the behavioral deficits in this animal model of tuberous sclerosis. The results presented here reveal a biological basis for some of the cognitive deficits associated with tuberous sclerosis, and they show that treatment with mTOR antagonists ameliorates cognitive dysfunction in a mouse model of this disorder.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t had a chance to look at the entire paper, but this is their abstract of what they were looking at,<br />
&#8220;ABSTRACT<br />
Tuberous sclerosis is a single-gene disorder caused by heterozygous mutations in the TSC1 (9q34) or TSC2 (16p13.3) gene1, 2 and is frequently associated with mental retardation, autism and epilepsy. Even individuals with tuberous sclerosis and a normal intelligence quotient (approximately 50%)3, 4, 5 are commonly affected with specific neuropsychological problems, including long-term and working memory deficits6, 7. Here we report that mice with a heterozygous, inactivating mutation in the Tsc2 gene (Tsc2+/- mice)8 show deficits in learning and memory. Cognitive deficits in Tsc2+/- mice emerged in the absence of neuropathology and seizures, demonstrating that other disease mechanisms are involved5, 9, 10, 11. We show that hyperactive hippocampal mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) signaling led to abnormal long-term potentiation in the CA1 region of the hippocampus and consequently to deficits in hippocampal-dependent learning. These deficits included impairments in two spatial learning tasks and in contextual discrimination. Notably, we show that a brief treatment with the mTOR inhibitor rapamycin in adult mice rescues not only the synaptic plasticity, but also the behavioral deficits in this animal model of tuberous sclerosis. The results presented here reveal a biological basis for some of the cognitive deficits associated with tuberous sclerosis, and they show that treatment with mTOR antagonists ameliorates cognitive dysfunction in a mouse model of this disorder.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kristina Chew, PhD</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-white-flag/comment-page-2/#comment-543281</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristina Chew, PhD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 00:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-white-flag/#comment-543281</guid>
		<description>Curious, with the usual caveats----what is &quot;mental retardation&quot; in a mouse vs. a human being, and what is &quot;intelligence&quot;-----</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curious, with the usual caveats&#8212;-what is &#8220;mental retardation&#8221; in a mouse vs. a human being, and what is &#8220;intelligence&#8221;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
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		<title>By: Regan</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-white-flag/comment-page-2/#comment-556726</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 00:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-white-flag/#comment-556726</guid>
		<description>Genuine question and genuinely interested in the response.
How would you feel about something like this, or the potential of this, since this is currently demonstrated in a mouse model, with the usual caveats?:
Drug reverses mental retardation caused by genetic disorder
http://tinyurl.com/5avaum

Reversal of learning deficits in a Tsc2+/- mouse model of tuberous sclerosis 
Dan Ehninger, Sangyeul Han, Carrie Shilyansky, Yu Zhou, Weidong Li, David J Kwiatkowski, Vijaya Ramesh &amp; Alcino J Silva
Published online: 22 June 2008; &#124; doi:10.1038/nm1788</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Genuine question and genuinely interested in the response.<br />
How would you feel about something like this, or the potential of this, since this is currently demonstrated in a mouse model, with the usual caveats?:<br />
Drug reverses mental retardation caused by genetic disorder<br />
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/5avaum" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/5avaum</a></p>
<p>Reversal of learning deficits in a Tsc2+/- mouse model of tuberous sclerosis<br />
Dan Ehninger, Sangyeul Han, Carrie Shilyansky, Yu Zhou, Weidong Li, David J Kwiatkowski, Vijaya Ramesh &amp; Alcino J Silva<br />
Published online: 22 June 2008; | doi:10.1038/nm1788</p>
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		<title>By: David Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-white-flag/comment-page-2/#comment-548994</link>
		<dc:creator>David Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-white-flag/#comment-548994</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m writing from Toronto.  I do not listen to CFRB and especially Leslie Roberts.  

Roberts likes to overtalk guests and interrupt to steer the dialogue his way. This is his manner and it&#039;s a grating thing for the guests and callers.
That&#039;s probably why he&#039;s on the fifth-ranked radio station in the late morning.

The station, CFRB, once was a very influential station and had high esteem with the listening public.  Today, it&#039;s a cadaver filled with talk radio and no-talents to make it happen.  

If there were no cell phones and if Toronto&#039;s traffic wasn&#039;t as bad as it is, then CFRB would have to come up with quality programming.

It&#039;s a pity you didn&#039;t get interviewed by the CBC.
Canadian Broadcasting Corporation is streets ahead of all the other stations for asking meaningful questions and getting substantive interviews.

Here&#039;s hoping that the next time will be with a worthy broadcaster and radio station.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m writing from Toronto.  I do not listen to CFRB and especially Leslie Roberts.  </p>
<p>Roberts likes to overtalk guests and interrupt to steer the dialogue his way. This is his manner and it&#8217;s a grating thing for the guests and callers.<br />
That&#8217;s probably why he&#8217;s on the fifth-ranked radio station in the late morning.</p>
<p>The station, CFRB, once was a very influential station and had high esteem with the listening public.  Today, it&#8217;s a cadaver filled with talk radio and no-talents to make it happen.  </p>
<p>If there were no cell phones and if Toronto&#8217;s traffic wasn&#8217;t as bad as it is, then CFRB would have to come up with quality programming.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a pity you didn&#8217;t get interviewed by the CBC.<br />
Canadian Broadcasting Corporation is streets ahead of all the other stations for asking meaningful questions and getting substantive interviews.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s hoping that the next time will be with a worthy broadcaster and radio station.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-white-flag/comment-page-1/#comment-557968</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 20:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-white-flag/#comment-557968</guid>
		<description>&quot;@Cliff. Just as there isn’t a magic pill my daughter can take, there isn’t currently some magical teaching method by which she can learn. Her problems stem not from improper teaching methods, but from her autism. The only teaching method is patience, love, and to keep trying to teach her, and to fight the feelings of futility.&quot;

Yes, the task is difficult. But in so far as a &quot;magic teaching method&quot; (read: a more intense version of any kind of learning whatsoever), it is far and away well possible for her to continue to learn certain skills and abilities. As you basically noted. But, yes, it is a more difficult task, to be sure.

Cliff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;@Cliff. Just as there isn’t a magic pill my daughter can take, there isn’t currently some magical teaching method by which she can learn. Her problems stem not from improper teaching methods, but from her autism. The only teaching method is patience, love, and to keep trying to teach her, and to fight the feelings of futility.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, the task is difficult. But in so far as a &#8220;magic teaching method&#8221; (read: a more intense version of any kind of learning whatsoever), it is far and away well possible for her to continue to learn certain skills and abilities. As you basically noted. But, yes, it is a more difficult task, to be sure.</p>
<p>Cliff</p>
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		<title>By: Navi</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/the-white-flag/comment-page-1/#comment-553551</link>
		<dc:creator>Navi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:14:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/the-white-flag/#comment-553551</guid>
		<description>On the pool comment, my recent experience was quite different. After people realized Tristan wasn&#039;t drowning (he was flailing and bouncing off the floor of the pool and there were a lot of mom&#039;s going on &#039;autopilot save the kid&#039;) they quickly switched to showing their toddlers - &#039;see he&#039;s holding his breath and putting his head under water, see, he&#039;s having fun, you can too!&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the pool comment, my recent experience was quite different. After people realized Tristan wasn&#8217;t drowning (he was flailing and bouncing off the floor of the pool and there were a lot of mom&#8217;s going on &#8216;autopilot save the kid&#8217;) they quickly switched to showing their toddlers &#8211; &#8217;see he&#8217;s holding his breath and putting his head under water, see, he&#8217;s having fun, you can too!&#8217;</p>
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