Today Show Today on Autism and Vaccines
October 29, 2008 by Kristina Chew, PhD
Filed under Health
The Today Show website has posted an excerpt from the beginning of Dr. Paul Offit’s Autism False Prophets: Bad Science, Risky Medicine, and the Search for a Cure.
At the Parengs Bloggers Network, some parents describe a “feeling of betrayal” in regard to the “overwhelming fears and sadness surrounding autism and the still hotly-debated autism-vaccine link” discussed in Dr. Offit’s book. Excerpts from some parents’ reviews of the book are here
And if you’re watching the Today Show in the 8:00 half-hour tomorrow (Thursday, October 30th) morning, there’s a segment on vaccines and autism. I was interviewed for it, and I think there should be some footage of a certain boy riding his bike.
I will set my TiVo tonight!
Wow, how did you become the face of autism? Do you have a PR agent?
And what was it Moondog said?
“Today is yesterday’s tommorow,”
Or as Ian Anderson sung, “It was a new day yesterday but it’s an old day now”
Well the igneous clowns have it,
All our yesterdays serve only to light fools
A week is a long time in politics and in the long run, we are all dead.
Yay! I just remembered we have DVR now! Can’t wait to see it!
thats so cool! congrats!
Kelly Turner
http://www.groundedfitness.com
No agent……… and following up on laurentius-rex, de mortuis nihil nisi bonum.
I’ll be watching.
WTG, Kristina! You are out there representing. Woo!
Wow. Just caught it (I was listening, not watching much). Whoever that Dr. at the end was …… well, I’d like to send her a virtual bouquet of flowers and a cake! Should have recorded it…..
Great job! I wish they had spent a little more time on the segment, but they did a great job!
I’m glad they talked with Dr. Offit about the threats he gets. It shows how unstable/unhinged some people are. He was his usual gracious self, very well spoken and polite.
You were your eloquent self, and I loved seeing Charlie ride his bike! I loved the clip with the three of you walking as well! Charlie certainly is tall!
And kudos to Dr. Nancy Snyderman for saying it isn’t controversial any more (several times and even interrupting Matt on this!), it is fact! She is going to get some hate mail out of this, but I could hug her for saying what she said and how she said it!
I think the prior link might be held up, so I’ll try this:
http://www.msnbc.msn dot com/id/21134540/vp/27453507#27453507
Getting ready for work…Matt Lauer starts his segment on Autism and lo and behold, there’s Kristina Chew. Nicely done
.
How ’bout that tense moment at the end? Controversial? Not?
Try this link to the program
7min
That was pretty forthright. Dr. Nancy Snyderman certainly wasn’t going to let Matt Lauer play the “controversy” card.
Nice video of your family Kristina.
Great Job! I’m so exited that someone is finally out there telling the truth with the same intensity and zeal that the anti-vax group is known for. Thank you so much!
You can drop Dr. Snyderman a thank you note here
now that’s must see tv. Thanks for the FYI…
I didn’t read this until just now, but I happened to be watching this morning, and was thrilled to see you. Congrats!
Thanks Dr. Synderman for taking a strong position. Thanks Matt Lauer for airing the story and demonstrating :grace under fire.: More people need to know the horror of measles and polio from not vaccinating children.
Tell Charlie that someone he’s never met thinks he’s a hero.
Good job, too, Kristina!
thanks thanks & thanks to everyone—-just wish there’d been a lot more of Charlie on his bike!
Good segment, just watched clip and sent note to Nancy via link posted in comments. I told her we need more on topic about preparing for adulthood and mentioned my kids are 12 and 13.
I was thinking that since it appears that sensationalism is the only thing that seems to motivate interest in this country perhaps the CDC should run a billboard and tv ad campaign of it’s own actually showing what these diseases look like, how they afflict people. I think society has become so complacent about vaccines because we, fortunately, don’t remember what it was like to actually live with the conditions they inoculate against.
I’m a physician and I have multiple educated conservative collegues who would strongly argue that there IS controversy surrounding vaccines and autism. There is NOT definitive evidence that they don’t cause autism and there is still mounds of compelling evidence that they may. I don’t understand how any educated doctor or other who reads the literature can state otherwise. There is SO much we don’t understand about immunizations and how they alter our immune systems and how that may stimulate changes in our central nervous system. That includes the antigen and/or the preservatives in these solutions. To ignore these unknowns and deny any controversy is simply irresponsible, dangerous, politically oriented medicine. I’m also very tired of hearing about the measles outbreaks and how this exemplifies the need for manditory vaccinations. NOBODY – including the experts – really understand what the longterm consequences of our massive immunization schedule is imposing on our population. NOBODY can say with certainty that we are not creating a bigger monster. What we really need to be discussing is how incredibly complexity of the human immune system and that we need to be much more cautious regarding how we alter it with our limited knowledge. I’m extremely suspect of individuals who deny these facts and make believe they already know it all. And don’t let diversionary talk about the idiots out there making death threats weaken the argument that a controversy DOES exist. In light of the above, sometimes we need to take risks to protect society, however, don’t deny those risks or disconnect an association that deserves much greater investigation. Lets get real.
Physician heal thyself, get a grip.
There is no absolute proof of anything, do you remember your education? the scientific method, refutable hypotheses and all that.
All we ever have is the best working model and for a hypothesis to make any sense it needs to be refutable.
However there are probabilities to be taken into account, and it does not make sense to investigate those where there is a very low probability, for instance the notion that the dinosaurs were wiped out by alien hunters.
There will never be absolute evidence, but it is the weight of evidence that matters. Just like in a court case.
The problem comes with human cognition and bias, as you ought to know being a physician, that what someone percieves and the weighting they give there own observations, is often contrary to an objective measure.
There was an interesting study recently, hope someone else will cite, I am again bunking off my studies to reply to blogs (nasty habit needs curing) that demonstrated that people on the autistic spectrum are more likely to be objective.
Laurentius, I’ll try not to take offense to your patronizing comments. I have been recognized nationally for my own research and I understand the scientific method. You can argue as much as you want, but your words cannot deny that a controversy exists. It’s not the point that “there will never be absolute evidence”…. there “is evidence” on BOTH sides of the autism argument. And there are also numerous tested hypotheses indicating that we may be playing a dangerous game of Russian Roulette with our immune systems. Once again – I agree that immunizations play an important role in society – but ignoring the facts I stated because “probabilities” indicate otherwise is the sort of science that can get us all into a lot of trouble. As you state, sure people often place a lot of weight on their own observations and come to the wrong conclusions – However, data can be constructed “objectively” towards either side of an argument or hypothesis. And in the instance of autism, the MONEY sits heavily on the side of giving as many immunizations as we can and trying to break any association with harm. As a physician, I took an oath to “First do no harm…” Money and heated emotions are superceeding intelligent discussion – especially because if the business side admits to the possibility of any harm, they have too much to lose. The same thing happened to the mortgage industry. Once again…to anyone who denys that a controversy linking autism and immunizations doesn’t exist – Are you only listening to your collegues and associations? Have you listened to the intelligent voice on the other side? And even if you’re not sure about autism, have you taken the time to consider the harm that all these shots may be having on our immune systems? I have three children and my wife and I have been immunizing them, however, it isn’t without trepidation and pressure.
“There is SO much we don’t understand about immunizations and how they alter our immune systems and how that may stimulate changes in our central nervous system.”
Then perhaps you and your conservative colleagues should be listening to the specialists who*do*study these subjects.
Note that in her Omnibus testimony, Dr. Elizabeth Mumper, research director for DAN!/ARI was asked:
Q And would you agree that for most members of the medical community the case is closed on the alleged link between vaccines and autism?
To which she answered:
A Sadly, I think that is the case.
She wasn’t asked, “do you think that most members of the medical community disagree with your side of the controversy” but, whether the case was closed.
Medically and scientifically, this is not a controversy.
You can find more about the Omnibus here
http://vaccinesafety.ecbt.org/ecbt/omnibusautism.html
But, as long as we are on the subject of acting with a lack of knowledge: Can you, Dan, offer some insight as to the long term effects of chelation (as only one example) on very young children? Can you point to a safety study, at the least, on the use of chelators for extended periods of time, as is the case with the alternative-medicine approach to autism?
There is definitely controversy. Otherwise there would be no argument about it. My child has been on the GFCF diet for over a year now and we saw huge gains within the first two weeks of starting it. He had his chicken pox vaccine and then we saw him regress….at 10 years old he regressed….the very day of his vaccination. I guess that was just a coincidence too? If it’s all just coincidence why not change the vaccine schedule if there’s nothing to hide? Sorry, but there are just too many “coincidences” for me! Are you saying all of these parents are lying??? What do they have to gain by lying? I believe that not all children’s autism is triggered by vaccines…but it is not fair to say that NO child’s autism is triggered or even caused by vaccines. Just as it is not fair to say just b/c my child can have penicillin that it’s safe for ALL children! That is just ignorant. I believe my child was born “different” too, but I have on more than one occasion seen him regress further into autism after he received a vaccine…and yes he is fully vaccinated. Sorry, but I don’t believe these occasions were merely coincidence and I am just sorry for him that I was so naive and it took me so long to see that.
Dan, the physician wrote:
“And there are also numerous tested hypotheses indicating that we may be playing a dangerous game of Russian Roulette with our immune systems.”
How’s that again?? – where?
And earlier, he stated:
“There is SO much we don’t understand about immunizations and how they alter our immune systems and how that may stimulate changes in our central nervous system.”
Strange, I knew that vaccination uses the immune system, first I heard that it is altered by it. Why has Western allopathic medicine never heard that one before? This is Nobel prize winning stuff.
Or, Dear Dan is some weird kind of physician, possibly of the DO dinky variety.
The clincher is this though:
“And in the instance of autism, the MONEY sits heavily on the side of giving as many immunizations as we can”
Everybody in real medical practice says that there is no money to be made in dishing out vaccinations.
RexuAngel, I guess an “Omnibus testimony” is irrefutable? Where is your logic? Do I bow now or later? How well do you know Dr Mumper to stand behind her words so strongly?
And Alyric, I noted that I’m a physician with a history in research to illustrate that I understand the medical profession and research just a little better than most nonphysicians. Your assumption that I may be a DO of the “dinky variety” is both rude and ignorant. I know numerous DO’s who happen to be brilliant clinicians who have patients that adore them. Nevertheless, only to satify your curiosity, I am an MD from one of the best medical schools in the country and I’ve been practicing medicine for over 15 years.
I have always been fascinated by the numerous medical discoveries that were originally scoffed at by the medical community and public before they became well accepted. Some of us never learn how important it is to listen to the voices out there – especially when they’re as loud as those from parents with autistic children and many others that understand their concerns. With your attitude, I’m very sorry if you play any role in the healthcare industry. Furthermore, your level of exchange denies any promise of an intelligent outcome.
In addition, I’m not going to quote research studies for you regarding our immune system – they’re there and perhaps someone WILL win the Nobel prize for their research in this area. However, it won’t be for showing that immunizations may alter the immune response as we bipass the natural way the body processes a foreign substance, because, although you apparently aren’t aware, this isn’t a new revalation.
Lastly, what rock have you been living under to deny that immunizations are BIG business. This is a very profitible industry for the pharmaceutical companies. And I don’t need to tell you that the influence of these companies spreads heavily over us providers, the general public and our legislators. It was very presumptuous for you to assume that I was focusing on the profits of the providers “dishing out vaccinations”.
One more lastly. It is important for people to also realize the growing conversation among many of my collegues – that includes conservative MDs- many of them extremely astute – showing serious concern for the ever growing immunization schedule, the possibility that there may be a link to autism, allergies and our long term health. Many of us don’t like to talk about it because we risk our reputation since it goes against the current “flow”. For every one doctor like myself writing on this blog, there are twenty (or more) who are uncomfortable letting anyone know how they feel. This blog is also an indication of how closeminded and insulting people can be when they cling passionately to their one-sided point of view. Insulting someone for promoting a continued healthy debate over an EXTREMELY important issue only prevents the truth from reaching the surface. Questioning our system is a part of making it better.
Alternative medicine is a bit of a business itself, too………
RexuAngel, I guess an “Omnibus testimony” is irrefutable? Where is your logic? Do I bow now or later?
Dan,
if you want to make the statement here that Dr. Mumper’s testimony might be full of holes…you are not going to make many friends amongst the alt-med community.
Dr. Mumper, as the research director for the DAN!/ARI organization would be someone quite likely to lean towards the idea that there is a real medical controversy.
You seem to be following the “Bernadine Healy” approach: reference your unnamed colleagues as supporting your position.
If this is what you consider an insulting response to your position…well, try making a public statement supporting the current science of vaccines.
I have always been fascinated by the numerous medical discoveries that were originally scoffed at by the medical community and public before they became well accepted.
I’ve been frightened by the really bad ideas that were offered by people who graduated from “top medical schools”–ideas that were later debunked. Unfortunately, a lot of damage was caused before they were debunked.
Questioning our system is a part of making it better.
Granted. But, if we accept every question as fact, we will not have a working system. Questions must be tested. And, if experience is any guide, most questions will be refuted. The vaccine question has been tested in terms of the MMR and the Thimerosal hypotheses, and found to be lacking. The general question of “vaccines cause autism” has not been presented with a theoretical support. At least with Thimerosal, there was some semblance of a theory as to how and why.
Just because you pose a question doesn’t make it accurate. “Questioning” vaccines means that you accept that fact that your position has a finite probability of being incorrect. Otherwise, you would be “refuting” vaccines. Unfortunately, you react to responses to your questions in exactly the same manner as you decry. When someone “questions” your positions, you denounce them as rude and closed minded.
Perhaps the first mind you could open is your own?
This blog is also an indication of how closeminded and insulting people can be when they cling passionately to their one-sided point of view.
Again, the first place you can start, and the place with the greatest likelihood of success, is your own mind. And, perhaps the sarcasm of “do I bow now or later” passes for polite discourse amongst your learned peers, but I’ll point out that you lost the high ground to be able to call others “insulting” in the first paragraph of your response.
Generally the vaccine-autism issue tends to bring out strong opinions and statements from everyone; a couple of years ago, I really had no desire to have a position on it for this very reason.
Who can blame you Kristina?
dan, the physician wrote – quite a lot so we’ll stick to the high notes:
“However, it won’t be for showing that immunizations may alter the immune response as we bipass the natural way the body processes a foreign substance, because, although you apparently aren’t aware, this isn’t a new revalation.”
great – it’s old hat so the references abound right? And don’t give me that guff about rude and ignorant and I’m not giving you any references – that’s a three year old’s tantrum and usually means that there aren’t any references, which would be a shame, since this is such interesting stuff.
You’re also pushing the credibility envelope a tad forcefully with the DO and brilliant clinician. Seems so oxymoronic – osteopathy – clinician. It’s like expecting a homeopath to be a respectable pharmacist.
thanks for noting that, alyric!
but I think I would be swerving away from hard questions if I didn’t have a position.
The responses to my statements are hilarious. Since I’ve already lost the high ground….
Kristina, What was the comment regarding alternative medicine being a business too… OK? Sure it is. And any business can be biased. No argument there. Your point?
I’m glad SexyAngel understands that even ideas from “people from top medical schools” can be incorrect. And if she read what I wrote again, she would see that I have stated that I can see both sides of the argument/controversy – so there you go Sexy….I have opened my mind. Have you??
I also feel so naked that my Bernadine Healy approach has been discovered. Truth be told, I’m taking more of the Ben Dover angle with a touch of Jenna Tolls. If I told you that water expanded when it freezes, I don’t care to hear you tell me why it doesn’t. Argue the fine points with someone else Sexy – You can find them quite easily. Here’s a reference you might want to try – might be a little too conservative for you though… “Evidence of Harm” By David Kirby. You can even read a quick Amazon critique and pretend that you really read it and thought it was full of holes.
Speaking of more holes…what prompted your comment “if we accept every question as fact, we will not have a working system.” Who told you to accept every question as a fact? You can still question facts and have a very efficient system. If it makes you feel stronger holding your ground Sexy – You go girl!
And Alcoholic – Sounds like you’ve met some pretty bright three year olds. Guess you also need a good shoulder to cry on. What rotten osteopath dissed you so badly that you feel like you need to paint yourself supreme? Try reading
some of Russell Blaylock’s work regarding mitochondria and vaccines if you want to read about some of the ways our immune systems are being affected.
I look forward to your attacks on the credibility of the two sources I mentioned so I can then attack yours. On second thought I’ll try very hard not to go there – it would never end. Perhaps you’ll actually read these sources and realize you don’t know as much as you think you do.
c-ya, Dan. It was a thin veneer you had.
Dan,
Please stop saying there are many physicians who believe as you do. You do not represent physicians any more than I do.
I have read your “sources”. I do find it pathetic that you would actually quote Kirby as a source of medical knowledge, coming from a physician.
I do not find these “sources” an indictment against vaccines. I believe there is more money being made by the DAN/alternative/quack industry than by the pharmaceutical companies. Of course, that is just my opinion after speaking with quite a few parents, and them telling me how much they spend per month and year on the search for a “cure”, as compared to my kids pediatrician’s costs for the vaccines they get. Not a real study, but you can quote me if you like, I am at least as credible as Kirby.
Wow Storkdork!! It’s great that you don’t have to pay for your children’s vaccines…We on the other hand had to shell out $400 b/c our insurance has decided not to cover but a portion of our vaccines anymore. So, don’t tell me there is no profit in the vaccine industry! Because someone sure as heck got that money and that was only our cut of it!
We’ve only been seeing our DAN doc for about 6 months, but the most I’ve had to pay him is $15. Yes, as in any profession, there are those out there ready to take you through the wringer, but in my experience our DAN only wants to help our kids feel better. He was just a local pediatrician who had many children on the spectrum. Many of his patients started going out of the state to DAN doctors and he actually noticed improvements with them. They were all complaining of the same thing….”I vaccinated my child and he was never the same after that”. He actually LISTENED to his patients, did some research of his own and that’s when he decided to get DAN certified. Like I said he’s never charged me over $15 and I have seen more improvements in my child with him than with any other pediatrician, neurologist, psychologist, gastroenterologist (I could keep going) that he has seen in his 11 years of life. My son will even tell you that he feels better. His stomach doesn’t hurt anymore, he’s more clear headed, more aware of his surroundings(he’s finally starting to make some friends), and because of this, he is finally starting to show some progress in school. He’s also had a lot of strange conditions (that I won’t get into because they are kind of gross) that none of his doctors could explain that have just went away in the past 6 months.
I quite frankly don’t give a crap about which studies are credible and which are not. You can believe all of that hogwash if you want to. I believe what I have seen happen to my child with my own two eyes. I didn’t think it was possible at first, but when I opened my eyes and really started to watch I saw my child regress, and I saw both of my NT children develop sensory issues immediately after receiving the shots they needed for school. They just weren’t the same for quite some time after those shots. They became withdrawn and developed sensory issues. It was awful. Luckily, they came out of it, although my middle child still has some sensory issues….3 years later. When you see something like this it makes you begin to question EVERYTHING and EVERYONE. All I am saying is that it may not be true in your case, but it is the case for many of these kids. I remember telling my mom 10 1/2 years ago before any of this “controversy” came out that my son just hadn’t been the same since he had his shots when he was about 6 months old…and then I remember saying. That’s just crazy. They wouldn’t give shots to a baby if it would hurt them. I too once believed as all of you do. But when I opened my mind….and my eyes and really started watching I realized there was a lot more to all of this than anyone wants to see and there is for some unknown reason whether it be gentics, or environment, or both….. a group of kids that just can’t handle these shots. Do I care about these studies or the pharmaceutical companies that run them??? NO The only thing that I care about is what I’ve seen and getting my child the help that he needs so that he is able to live a long, fullfilling, and independent life long after I am gone.
Ann,
The DAN quacks in our area charge $300-$400 per hour, then they rent out the hyperbaric oxygen chambers (that don’t really give more oxygen than what a 2L nasal canula of 02 would give) for several hundred dollars per session, the parents have stated between 10 and 20 sessions per month. Then there is the chelation they give in the office that costs several hundred dollars each month, and the several hundred dollars of vitamins and homeopathic remedies they sell for each child every month.
The parents using the DAN protocol tell me that they are paying several thousand dollars every month for all this. That is well more than $400 once a year.
It is well know amongst physicians that providing vaccinations in the office is a money loser, you can’t even break even if you do so. I paid $119 per child yesterday to vaccinate for the flu in our pediatrician’s office. I consider that quite cheap compared to the $3,000 or more a month the families pay for the DAN “treatments”.
As for the rest of your post, go and embrace your quackery and anecdotes, they aren’t going to change anybody’s minds here. Having an “open mind” doesn’t mean believing everything you hear or read. It means using a framework of the scientific method and reproducible science for evaluating evidence. It also means not getting your “scientific information” from unqualified individuals, like Kirby or other journalists with no background in the science, or fringe doctors who seem very caring because they hold your hand and let you talk, but with the other hand empty your pockets.
Oh, and my anecdote for the day is, my son is doing much better than most of the kids with autism in our area without the “benefit” of DAN doctors. All children with autism develop skills. Just because you see progress doesn’t mean it is due to the DAN protocol. It probably would have happened anyway. Maybe “in spite of” the DAN protocol is a better way to put it.
Haha storkdork…you are too funny! I wouldn’t dare try to change YOUR mind. I’ve had lots of experience with your kind! I’m just trying to get my story out too (for other people who are interested, so that BOTH sides are heard….not for your benefit!) I’ve given up on trying to talk to people like you!!!
As far as your comment saying doctors don’t profit from vaccines….I only recall saying that SOMEONE was getting the money. I never said it was the doctors. I’m aware that doctors don’t profit from the vaccines themselves. And no, $400 dollars isn’t much to pay when you only have to pay it once a year, but that’s only b/c insurance picks up the rest otherwise you’d be paying thousands to those doctors too. Just ask anyone who is uninsured. They are making their money too….they just get it from other sources.
I’m so sorry that people in your area are being taken to the cleaners, but that’s just not so in all cases. Luckily our pediatrician is an older man with his own practice, so he can afford to take the cut. As far as the ignorant statement that my child would have improved anyway…I almost fell on the floor LMAO at that comment!!!!! Our son hadn’t made much progress at all up to the time we started doing biomedical(and he was 10). No big improvements anyway. Once we started the GFCFSF diet his speech teacher came up to me and said I don’t know what you are doing with him, but he is started to reach his goals in speech(he rarely reaches any of his goals and he’d already reached three or 4 of them)….then she said, “I can tell that he is actually grasping what I am saying to him for a change”. She had no idea we were doing this diet. We saw huge progress and we went from spending 2 or three hours a night doing homework with him just not getting it to him doing his homework by himself in around 30 minutes with no meltdowns within 7 days of starting the diet. He actually told me that if I tried to help him he was going to go into another room and do his homework. He stopped lining up his cars and started playing with his brother and sister. He started listening to other people’s conversations and even started joining in. And that’s only for starters. It’s funny though how you guys always think everything is coincidental!!! Thanks for the laugh anyway! I needed that today!!!!
@Dan, regarding alternative medicine being a business: It seems that if one is going to talk about “the medical profession” as interested in garnering profits, it might also be well to consider the costs of various alternative and biomedical treatments that families turn to? When such a practitioner suggests or insists that a family purchase some sort of vitamin or other supplement in order to help a child, and the family purchases said vitamin etc. from the practitioner’s office regardless of cost, should there not be some concerns raised?
@Ann, we noted what we thought were significant results in first taking my son off the diet.
He no longer is on the gluten free diet and there are no changes.
Coincidence is hard to dispute, and yet requires further reflection, with the thoughtful input of others considered to?
I didn’t say it would work for everyone…..I just said that it has worked for my child and when he eats something with gluten, casein, or soy it hurts his tummy and he cries for most of the night.
As for the supplements these doctors recommend….you can get them at any HFS or most of them at your local pharmacy even. Our DAN doc doesn’t even sell them.
You are right everyone should have their input. It just makes me mad when one person b/c of their experience tries to make everyone else look like they are lying about their experiences with their child. I don’t try to discredit the fact that you say your child’s autism was not triggered by vaccines, all I would like is that same respect. Autism is not one size fits all. Every child with Autism is different. I think we should all be able to agree on that. What helps one child may or may not help another. And that is all I have to say on this subject.
Thank you for your clarification Ann. I agree that there are dishonest people or those who mean well but use poor judgement practicing medicine in BOTH allopathic and alternative medicine. And clearly, since any Joe can practice alternative medicine, simply due to the numbers and untested treatments, people are probably being taken advantage of more often in the area of alternative medicine. Nevertheless, that doesn’t mean that there aren’t wonderful theraputics out there in the holistic medical community that most allopathic doctors haven’t embraced.
I performed both basic science and clinical research at the highest level and I can tell you that I was shocked at how easy it can be to “prove” that your hypothesis or drug is effective using the “scientific method” when reality says otherwise. It often takes a very astute individual reading through the study to catch the errors. Although I am in favor of the scientific method, it should be known that it is FAR from infalible and can’t always be used.
There is a strong motivation to be published or be accepted for more drug studies on the part of the researcher which can dangerously taint the data. There are numerous large studies being used as the basis of allopathic treatments with bad data and may be hurting patients, however, very few people have the courage to step up to the plate and criticize these well known physicians or institutions. And even when they do, it is often brushed under the table until enough physicians speak up or the treatment hurts enough people. As much as these large studies can be very helpful, there are many that hurt. SO……What does this say besides the scientific method is extremely inportant but far from perfect?……That there are a lot of alternative treatments available that can be judged on the PROBABILITY of their benevolence by looking at the case studies and scientific data surrounding them. Trying to prove nutritional treatments using the scientific method is nearly impossible unless you synthesize the information surrounding that theory or find someone you trust who did that for you.
Hey Storkdoc – Don’t forget it was Hipocrates who said let food be your medicine and medicine be your food. I can’t wait for you to trash that statement. What do you even know about nutrition? Why do most medical schools ignore nutrition? Please don’t tell me because diet doesn’t influence our health or can’t be used to target specific diseases. That ignorant thought has often been played by allopathic medicine as ridiculous as it seems.
I think it’s fantastic that Ann has tried an alternative treatment that has seemed to work. Other than hurting her wallet, what has she really got to lose. You can often use common sense when trying a nutritional or other alternative treatment regarding how dangerous it may be. The same isn’t true of pharmaceuticals – including vaccines. The politics within the pharmaceutical industry has bred significant mistrust over recent times. And Storkdoc – As much as you try to play others as foolish – if you’re saying that you trust a book written by a politically motivated doctor or researcher more than a writer who is staking his reputation on his accuracy and carefully supports each statement many times over such as Kirby – who also plays BOTH sides of the argument – I think you’re sadly mistaken. With that being said – I don’t believe you read his book. Even if a tenth of what he says is accurate, one could say that there is controversy regarding a connection between autism and vaccines.
Storkdoc and many others on this site….A closeminded attitude breeds a much more dangerous duck. As I said before – in contrast to an earlier comment…. Progress in medicine is made through the back and forth tug of different ideas and theories and not blindly holding onto static principles. By stating conclusively that vaccines are NOT related to autism in any way – you stand to hurt many more people than those treating the condition with oxygen and nutrition or the “quackery” that you mention. What if you’re wrong by even the smallest possibility? And opening that possiblity doesn’t mean that everyone is going to stop vaccinating their children. But it may take changing the rate of the schedule or being more discriminatory. Not every newborn needs to be immunized against hep B at birth – that’s insane when you look at the real stats. And when do you stop adding every potentially lethal disease to the list? If you can tell me that this isn’t irresponsibly messing with mother nature – I believe common sense (study or no study) alone says your dead wrong.
Other than hurting her wallet, what has she really got to lose.
I am trying to find a polite way to describe that statement briefly.
For now, let’s just point out that alternative medicine has caused regression in an autistic child, was linked to seizures in another (see David Kirby’s book. Yes, I did read it), has caused worsening of symptoms in another child (per Jenny McCarthy’s new book).
Tell me, how do you screen for which children will react poorly to a given therapy?
Where do you report the adverse reactions? Can I access that database and do a study on adverse reactions in alternative medicine as applied to autism?
@Ann,
You wrote “Autism is not one size fits all. Every child with Autism is different.”
This post is regarding the very statement you make.
Very best—–
Dr. Dan, you are a legend in your own mind! Glad to see your super-sized Ego is intact, or is that your Super-Ego, with some Id thrown in? I never was much into psychiatry.
I’ll hazard a guess, you are probably a Harvard man or a Yale man, or something close. Good for you! I’m just one of those west-coast trained MDs, I know how your type likes to look down on us. Funny though, all my (school’s) USMLE scores in medical school were on average above Harvard’s. So were our specialty tests in OB/GYN in residency. And as my medical school had/has an emphasis on the whole person, “to make man whole”, we did have more training in nutrition than any other medical school in the US at that time, as well as additional training in the social/spiritual side of patients, and one of the first to use these in patient simulation exams.
Well, thanks for sharing how intelligent and accomplished you are. Funny, I guess my Dean’s awards and NATO awards for my MS in Microbiology/Immunology to travel to Europe to present my research for the USA don’t really measure up to your standards. And my acceptance to study with a full scholarship (for a PhD in Immunology) at the Max Planck Institute in Germany probably doesn’t mean much, either, although they rarely offer this to someone outside of Germany. I often wonder at the road not taken. Decided to come home and go into medical school.
You underwhelm me.
It’s funny how all of the education in the world can’t give you a lick of common sense. I guess there are some things you just can’t pay for!!! Sorry guys, I’ll take my common sense any day over your awards, travels, and degrees! Please Dr. Dan, don’t stoop to this level. Storkdok doesn’t realize how egotistical he sounds himself!!! It’s really quite nauseating!
Hey Storkdoc, Wow! Where did that come from? Good for you on the accomplishments – I’m sure mommy is proud of her baby girl! You win.
I’m not trying to brag or impress anyone, including you. You’ve tried to discredit me as a “quack” and someone else tried to do the same regarding their disrespect for DO’s. It’s important for people to know that not all respectable physicians walk around with blinders. Sorry I’m not the lame duck you’re looking for. I never listed specific awards or initials outside of my MD; I was simply noting that I’m not coming from left field.
And furthermore, I don’t expect someone like you to respect anyone that disagrees with your super self. I’m not a shrink either, but I can’t help mentioning that you sound incredibly insecure and could probably benefit from rereading your notes on the spiritual and social side of medicine. And before you trim your cuticles tonight grumbling to yourself – think about how much negative energy your hot head is giving off (Hey mine can get pretty steamy too baby girl). As much as I underwhem you – I still care about you and your patients…. so I’ll give you some more advice – blogging is fun – after you’ve reread your notes and Kirby’s book try meditating a few moments on opening your mind to the ideas of a BRILLIANT, board certified, physician/surgeon like myself. Love is the answer. Ta Da
P.S. I was never one of those surgeons who called OB/Gyns “midwives with knifes”. And that wasn’t only because I respect midwives.
“…use poor judgement practicing medicine in BOTH allopathic and alternative medicine.”
“…in the holistic medical community that most allopathic doctors haven’t embraced.”
It’s curious that an MD would use a made-up word by a homeopath.
Hj wrote:
“It’s curious that an MD would use a made-up word by a homeopath.”
Indeed, he gives it away every third paragraph or so and that doesn’t include the woeful reasoning. Not too shabby as trolls go but not all that brilliant.