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	<title>Comments on: Yes, the Vaccine Question Again</title>
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	<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/yes-the-vaccine-question-again/</link>
	<description>Family, Health, Home and Lifestyles</description>
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		<title>By: Kristina Chew, PhD</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/yes-the-vaccine-question-again/comment-page-1/#comment-548455</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristina Chew, PhD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 13:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@Landru,

Yes, noted the link to Rashid Buttar---here is &lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/04/thoughts_on_dr_rashid_buttar_and_the_fai.php&quot;&gt;Orac&lt;/a&gt; with some &lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/04/thoughts_on_dr_rashid_buttar_and_the_fai.php&quot;&gt;thoughts on Dr. Rashid Buttar&lt;/a&gt;and the failure of state medical boards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Landru,</p>
<p>Yes, noted the link to Rashid Buttar&#8212;here is <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/04/thoughts_on_dr_rashid_buttar_and_the_fai.php">Orac</a> with some <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/04/thoughts_on_dr_rashid_buttar_and_the_fai.php">thoughts on Dr. Rashid Buttar</a>and the failure of state medical boards.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/yes-the-vaccine-question-again/comment-page-1/#comment-557282</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 12:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Nothing there, be told, is contradicting anything I said necessarily.

Cliff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing there, be told, is contradicting anything I said necessarily.</p>
<p>Cliff</p>
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		<title>By: María Luján</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/yes-the-vaccine-question-again/comment-page-1/#comment-557278</link>
		<dc:creator>María Luján</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 11:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The need of new approaches is more and more presented
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/14/3/557</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The need of new approaches is more and more presented<br />
<a href="http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/14/3/557" rel="nofollow">http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/14/3/557</a></p>
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		<title>By: H6</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/yes-the-vaccine-question-again/comment-page-1/#comment-550437</link>
		<dc:creator>H6</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 01:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It&#039;s interesting to hear that people on the spectrum have been treated for HHV-6. How did they do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting to hear that people on the spectrum have been treated for HHV-6. How did they do?</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/yes-the-vaccine-question-again/comment-page-1/#comment-548348</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 17:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I assume you understand what happens in controls in clinical studies when conditional variable have to be further controlled for? And that every time such a variable is included the number of tests for that subject increases and even makes it impossible to necessarily do the controls at all?
And, yes, you can test many of those details, individually, in terms of causation and in terms of a concrete result. It actually can warrant an inductive trial. You can&#039;t test a string of conditional variables. Simply can&#039;t. It&#039;s against the whole scientific method, to its core.

Cliff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I assume you understand what happens in controls in clinical studies when conditional variable have to be further controlled for? And that every time such a variable is included the number of tests for that subject increases and even makes it impossible to necessarily do the controls at all?<br />
And, yes, you can test many of those details, individually, in terms of causation and in terms of a concrete result. It actually can warrant an inductive trial. You can&#8217;t test a string of conditional variables. Simply can&#8217;t. It&#8217;s against the whole scientific method, to its core.</p>
<p>Cliff</p>
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		<title>By: Landru</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/yes-the-vaccine-question-again/comment-page-1/#comment-551159</link>
		<dc:creator>Landru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 17:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/yes-the-vaccine-question-again/#comment-551159</guid>
		<description>The KSDK story includes a link to Dr. Rashid Buttar, who &quot;helped&quot; the family that the story focuses on.

Kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The KSDK story includes a link to Dr. Rashid Buttar, who &#8220;helped&#8221; the family that the story focuses on.</p>
<p>Kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.</p>
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		<title>By: María Luján</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/yes-the-vaccine-question-again/comment-page-1/#comment-548108</link>
		<dc:creator>María Luján</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 04:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, Cliff I disagree with you because you are oversimplyfing the issue.
I accept you don´t like my question, but your criticism is vague also. Simply you are thinking in simple aspects of causation and there is no room now to think about the test of only one variable in autism.The combination of techinques in multidisciplinary approach is being more and more proposed as the right approach- such as the link to Harvard is presenting- because of heterogeneity.
About my question I do think that there are ways to test them without &quot;the insane number of conditionals&quot; you mentioned, especially with the clues available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Cliff I disagree with you because you are oversimplyfing the issue.<br />
I accept you don´t like my question, but your criticism is vague also. Simply you are thinking in simple aspects of causation and there is no room now to think about the test of only one variable in autism.The combination of techinques in multidisciplinary approach is being more and more proposed as the right approach- such as the link to Harvard is presenting- because of heterogeneity.<br />
About my question I do think that there are ways to test them without &#8220;the insane number of conditionals&#8221; you mentioned, especially with the clues available.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/yes-the-vaccine-question-again/comment-page-1/#comment-555378</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 03:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/yes-the-vaccine-question-again/#comment-555378</guid>
		<description>Admittedly, I still disagree. &quot;Adverse affect&quot; still, still doesn&#039;t become any more qualified by that, to be sure. And it only got worse. In that brief, I was once again bombarded with conditional after conditional, and every time there is a conditional like that there is something that isn&#039;t being controlled for and thus something that in terms of the inductive method. As it stands, it&#039;s tricky enough tying a biomarker with a direct source to a causation of certain forms of development, and certainly not when you&#039;ve stacked so many bricks that none of the individual theses are addressed. 

The reason why they&#039;re fragmented is because, when you are looking for substance that causes certain behavioral trends, you have to consistently control for every possible substance in an inductive trial as it stands. And when you&#039;re dealing with something as nebulous as &quot;adversely affects&quot;, it becomes far less clear. How can you tell when something is &quot;adversely affected&quot;? The type of behavior examined on that end is thrown out the window, and you have an uncontrolled variable lurking in your study. Putting autism back in helps as that&#039;s a defined category in its place. &quot;Cause&quot; is a far more better term than &quot;adversely affect&quot;, because a. with &quot;adversely affect&quot;, you can argue it compounded an unknown variable that hasn&#039;t been determined yet which would, in fact be the cause, and that&#039;s tricky to prove and b. casual conditions are essentially what&#039;s being looked for in practical terms of purpose, taking the assumptions of these studies. Then you&#039;re just knocking out all of the potential substance variables, and I guess vaccines a place to start, if anywhere.

In other words, in &quot;vaccines cause autism&quot;, we actually have means for an inductive trial. In &quot;Do vaccines affect adversely to children who are born immunologically, gastrointestinally, biochemically, metabolically immature-(probably genetically linked through SNPs or other ) or with off the average kidney/liver and xenobiotics management function?&quot;, you&#039;ve got an insane number of conditionals and no means to conduct an inductive test.

Cliff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Admittedly, I still disagree. &#8220;Adverse affect&#8221; still, still doesn&#8217;t become any more qualified by that, to be sure. And it only got worse. In that brief, I was once again bombarded with conditional after conditional, and every time there is a conditional like that there is something that isn&#8217;t being controlled for and thus something that in terms of the inductive method. As it stands, it&#8217;s tricky enough tying a biomarker with a direct source to a causation of certain forms of development, and certainly not when you&#8217;ve stacked so many bricks that none of the individual theses are addressed. </p>
<p>The reason why they&#8217;re fragmented is because, when you are looking for substance that causes certain behavioral trends, you have to consistently control for every possible substance in an inductive trial as it stands. And when you&#8217;re dealing with something as nebulous as &#8220;adversely affects&#8221;, it becomes far less clear. How can you tell when something is &#8220;adversely affected&#8221;? The type of behavior examined on that end is thrown out the window, and you have an uncontrolled variable lurking in your study. Putting autism back in helps as that&#8217;s a defined category in its place. &#8220;Cause&#8221; is a far more better term than &#8220;adversely affect&#8221;, because a. with &#8220;adversely affect&#8221;, you can argue it compounded an unknown variable that hasn&#8217;t been determined yet which would, in fact be the cause, and that&#8217;s tricky to prove and b. casual conditions are essentially what&#8217;s being looked for in practical terms of purpose, taking the assumptions of these studies. Then you&#8217;re just knocking out all of the potential substance variables, and I guess vaccines a place to start, if anywhere.</p>
<p>In other words, in &#8220;vaccines cause autism&#8221;, we actually have means for an inductive trial. In &#8220;Do vaccines affect adversely to children who are born immunologically, gastrointestinally, biochemically, metabolically immature-(probably genetically linked through SNPs or other ) or with off the average kidney/liver and xenobiotics management function?&#8221;, you&#8217;ve got an insane number of conditionals and no means to conduct an inductive test.</p>
<p>Cliff</p>
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		<title>By: María Luján</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/yes-the-vaccine-question-again/comment-page-1/#comment-555449</link>
		<dc:creator>María Luján</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 03:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Cliff
I disagree.With the technology available such as this research is considering
Methods Mol Biol. 2008;448:469-79. 
Pharmacogenomics in the evaluation of efficacy and adverse events during clinical development of vaccines.Nilsson LJ, Regnström KJ.
Division of Paediatrics, Faculty of Health Sciences, Linköping University, Sweden.

The understanding of vaccine-induced immune responses in adults and infants is limited. Current vaccination schedules for infants are frequently debated. Especially, the relationship among the timing, the frequency of the dosing, and the generation of an immunological memory are debated. Vaccine antigen-induced cytokine responses to vaccinations given in infancy are of particular interest because little is known about cellular responses in this age, and the information available is based on antibody responses. Pharmacogenomics is ideally suited to study cellular responses related to immune response; in addition, toxicity, inflammation, apoptosis, stress, and oncogenesis can be monitored, since the expression of thousands of genes can be measured in a single experiment.

Much more useful than &quot;vaccines cause autism&quot;? kind of questions may be done with increasing knowledge, especially in combination with clinical studies. There are a lot of questions that may be done about adverse effects and biochemistry and metabolism- and others- and not only from vaccines- considering ASD. Even more, there are a lot of published studies related to these topics in ASD, but fragmented and not  in the context of a systemic consideration .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cliff<br />
I disagree.With the technology available such as this research is considering<br />
Methods Mol Biol. 2008;448:469-79.<br />
Pharmacogenomics in the evaluation of efficacy and adverse events during clinical development of vaccines.Nilsson LJ, Regnström KJ.<br />
Division of Paediatrics, Faculty of Health Sciences, Linköping University, Sweden.</p>
<p>The understanding of vaccine-induced immune responses in adults and infants is limited. Current vaccination schedules for infants are frequently debated. Especially, the relationship among the timing, the frequency of the dosing, and the generation of an immunological memory are debated. Vaccine antigen-induced cytokine responses to vaccinations given in infancy are of particular interest because little is known about cellular responses in this age, and the information available is based on antibody responses. Pharmacogenomics is ideally suited to study cellular responses related to immune response; in addition, toxicity, inflammation, apoptosis, stress, and oncogenesis can be monitored, since the expression of thousands of genes can be measured in a single experiment.</p>
<p>Much more useful than &#8220;vaccines cause autism&#8221;? kind of questions may be done with increasing knowledge, especially in combination with clinical studies. There are a lot of questions that may be done about adverse effects and biochemistry and metabolism- and others- and not only from vaccines- considering ASD. Even more, there are a lot of published studies related to these topics in ASD, but fragmented and not  in the context of a systemic consideration .</p>
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		<title>By: María Luján</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/articles/yes-the-vaccine-question-again/comment-page-1/#comment-548244</link>
		<dc:creator>María Luján</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 03:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismvox.com/yes-the-vaccine-question-again/#comment-548244</guid>
		<description>Hi H6
I would be interested to discuss further the issue about herpes. May I contact you by e-mail? Please let me know Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi H6<br />
I would be interested to discuss further the issue about herpes. May I contact you by e-mail? Please let me know Thanks.</p>
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