Breastfeeding Rights Rally in Ontario on November 7, 2008
November 6, 2008 by Angela White, J.D., breastfeeding counselor
Filed under activism, breastfeeding, law
Image by _shward_ of past breastfeeding rally
You are invited to a breastfeeding rights rally on Friday, November 7, 2008, in Newmarket, Ontario.
The Breastfeeding Discrimination Incident
Nursing mother Cinira Longuinho explains:
I was breastfeeding my daughter on the steps of the swimming pool when Ms. Ellie Karkouti, the owner of the facility, came to speak with me. Ms. Karkouti said they had one complaint and that I could not breastfeed my daughter in the swimming pool. She said if I wanted to breastfeed I would have use the changeroom. I tried to say that based on the law I had the right to breastfeed in public places but Ms. Karkouti said that she was the owner and I could only breastfeed in the changeroom. After that I stopped breastfeeding. Ms. Ellie Karkouti left. I stayed in the swimming pool.
It was the first time I have suffered discrimination in my life! I wanted to cry so bad. I tried to pretend this has never happened. My daughter kept asking to nurse and I denied her while we were in the pool. My heart was broken. I did not know what to do. I was completely sad, lost and numb.
Only after a few hours, I believe I started to think clearly again.
I informed the group of families registered for this swim time at The Aquacentre about the terrible episode. The leader of this activity, Carol-Anne Brockington, sent an email to The Aquacentre asking for an apology. Their feedback was “At no point did we discriminate against the act of breastfeeding.” They did not offer any apology.
After several emails of support from mothers ready to fight for the right to breastfeed, we have decided to organize a Breastfeeding Rights Rally, a peaceful nurse-in for Friday, November 7th in The Aquacentre at 2:30pm.
Details of the Rally
Friday Nov 7th, The Aquacentre Pool at 2:30-3:30pm
1215 Stellar Dr., Newmarket, Ontario L3Y 7B8
Phone: 905 895 2782, Fax: 905 853 4229,
email: info@aquacentrenewmarket.com and ellie@trinityrehab.com
Longuinho adds:
Please inform as many people as you can about this discrimination episode and the nurse-in…. Also, everybody is welcome to the peaceful nurse-in, you do not have to breastfeed to participate! All support is welcome! If you are unable to attend the nurse-in personally please feel free to email, phone or fax the facility to voice your concerns over this incident and show your support of breastfeeding rights – anywhere, anytime!
Unfortunately, the Aquacentre in Newmarket is a private facility that charges to use the pool. For this reason, to be able to participate in the Breastfeeding Rights Rally it is required that you pay the fee of $5.25 per swimmer. I wish it was not necessary to pay but the law requests it. We also welcome supporters that would like to be outside with signs. Please bring your own sign! Supporters that will be outside do not need to pay any fee.
I think this is a fabulous idea!
PERSONALLY I THINK BREAST FEEDING RIGHTS ARE ADEQUATE OTHER THEN IN POOLS……THATS JUST GROSE AND THE SAME AS HEP A OR B YOU WOULDNT WANT TO CATCH THAT FROM THE POOL DUE TO A BEAST FEEDING MOTHER WHO COULDNT WAIT UNTIL SHE GOT OUT OF THE POOL.
THIS IS JUST OBSURD ITS COMMON SENCE THAT YOU SHOULDNT FEED YOUR CHILD IN THE POOL -BREASTS OR BOTTLE…… PLUS YOU SHOULD WAIT 30 MINS AFTER YOU EAT TO ENTER THE POOL……
I THINK WHAT THE OWNER WAS SAYING IS PERFECTLY FINE….STOP BEING SELFISH AND THINK ABOUT OTHER PEOPLES RIGHTS THAT ARE SWIMMING IN THE SAME POOL…GERMS ARE GERMS……NOT IMPRESSED…
JAMIE
It was my understanding that the Ontario Human Rights Commission has a mechanism for filing a complaint for violation of its Code which prohibits interfering with her breastfeeding. Am I missing something? Anyone know if she is also filing a complaint? I hate to see people not use hard won legal recourse.
No need to comment on the views of the Jamies of the world. I’d pay big money to go swimming in breastmilk. Thank goodness all that chlorine will keep me safe from all the pee I know actually is in the pool.
Jake, thanks so much for your comment! I have passed it on to those involved in the rally and hopefully it will reach Ms. Longuinho.
As for swimming in breast milk, can you imagine how good your skin would look LOL?!
“As for swimming in breast milk, can you imagine how good your skin would look LOL?!
”
Exactly my thoughts! Skin, hair, nails. Forget mud, soak me in breastmilk!
you must be kidding. What kind of parent would even consider breast feeding in a pool. Pee being the least of your worries. I hope the owner keeps fighting back. I worry about the health of the child being breatfed as well as my childrens health. People, use common sense.
I can’t believe someone would breastfeed in the pool! That is uncalled for! I have a baby and I would NEVER do that! Who would want to swim in a milky pool?!?! But like Jake said it’s good for the skin LOL
Also, I thought usually there are no food or drinks allowed in the pool and within the pool area?!?! Isn’t that food?! I think this is just common sense and some people just don’t have that!!!!
I cannot believe that you guys are fighting for this!!
I don’t want my son or daughter swimming in a pool where someone is breastfeeding! It’s not an issue of whether a woman should breastfeed in public…I believe women should breastfeed in public…but not in public pool..is it really that hard to get out on the deck and feed your baby?
It’s an issue of HYGIENE and BODILY FLUIDS mixing in the pool where other children are swimming?
some people have way too much time on their hands to protest ridiculous things. Spend time on rape, drunk driving, or pedophilia!
Get a life.
The responses about perceived health risks of breast milk in the pool are surprising to me. Even the most cursory of research shows that breast milk delivers antibodies and anti-bacterial benefits. What studies can people point to that would suggest it could possibly be a risk to the people in the pool (even if a mother were sick, the properties in the milk and the chlorination in the pool would prevent transmission)? Do public pool sites screen people for illnesses before letting them swim: might you or your children possibly have a cold? the flu? HIV? Also, which of these illnesses or other illnesses can be transmitted through accidental or purposeful urinating in the pool? — of course they don’t ask those questions! Even if one thought that exposure to another person’s breast milk might be a threat, the mother was sitting on the steps while feeding her child, so that activity clearly wasn’t in the water — babies still need to breath while feeding so his or her head and mouth were never in danger of going under water. And what amount would have to be actively expressed into the pool water to reach another person and also overcome the level of chlorine in the water? What if the mother had fed her child in the changeroom and then gone swimming in the pool without showering beforehand? Would people have been offended, even if they had known? Certainly not, but it probably would have gotten more breast milk in the pool than when she sat on the steps and fed her baby above the water. What is the real issue here? Seeing a part of the breast not covered by a bathing suit (not a valid argument, in my mind, even if you find seeing portions of the breast offensive while a mother is feeding, since so many bathing suits cover far less area than a baby’s head blocks while feeding!)? Or the concept of breast milk as a potentially hazardous bodily fluid (please do the research before responding)?
Jill, the argument definately is not that a breast is exposed, most intelligent people don’t care that a woman is breastfeeding in public.
As far as whether it’s hygienic to feed a baby in the pool…maybe public health should be contacted to give their input. My concern would be more for the baby being breastfed. If there is no issue from a health point of view, I’d be the first to say I’m wrong, what is the by law for this…if there is any at all?
Sounds to me that the real issue is not breastfeeding in the facility (as I’ve done that many times myself) but breastfeeding within the water of the pool. As I breastfeeding mother of a 10 month old, I know my rights, but come on – in the water?? Let’s show a little discretion people. There are tons of places you can choose to breastfeed – sounds to me this mother is just making trouble – like I can do it anywhere so why not here? How would you feel is someone was eating a sandwich or salad in the water?? Same thing. I’d also be more worried about the water the baby would swallow
I love people like Laura…intelligent, live in reality and have common sense.
Hmm..
Ok.. so pools have “harsh chemicals” as one person put it.. and now are unhygienic etc..
SO.. even if someone were somehow not to get a single millimeter of pool water in their mouth.. well. lets see there are other ways of having the water and it’s consituents get into your body. .. up your nose, in your ears, in your eyes, and lets not forget the human bodies biggest organ, the skin, which absorbs pretty much everything we put on it…. or expose it too.. including pool water and what’s in it…
now breastmilk in pools… lets see.. not only do nursing mothers continue to lactate between feedings, but also, after the discontinuation of nursing, sometimes up to two years or more. People on medications can lactate due to the medication, some people with certain medical conditions can lactate even though not nursing or pregnant.. oh this includes men too.. pubescent girls can lactate due to hormonal fluxes.. AND pregnant women also start lactating and can there fore leak into the pool… Isn’t the owner of the Aquacentre pregnant herself??
Banning breastfeeding from pools or pool decks under the concept of either the bodily fluids or food/drink comments, will not only isolate breastfeeding mothers, but newborns, pregnant women, no longer nursing mothers, people on medications, or those who eat certain herbs and plants, some people with medical conditions.. this is obviously a lot bigger than just a breastfeeding issue… it is about lactation now.. and more than nursing moms lactate…
The basic issue is that this woman’s human rights under the law were infringed upon.. plain and simple.. it has nothing to do with health and safety as there are NO laws etc about breastfeeding in a pool or on a pool deck.. It is a simple case of Human Rights Code violation…
great comment Tahena. Now if only if some informed adults could read and explain to emmet and laura then hopefully we can end this bigotry based only on misinformation.
Pee is also sterile, and people are saying they do not want to swim in that… breastmilk may not be harmful in general, but it still seems to me that doing it right in the pool does not seem like a reasonable thing to do. I wonder if breastfeeding is allowed on the deck? Now if it not allowed there, there is a huge problem, was that addressed with the pool owner?
I believe the human right code says “reasonable” accommodation. Would that not be reasonable to feed on the deck and not be ‘in’ the pool.
Two more facts missing from the press release:
1) It was not a baby being breastfeed in this case
2) It is a saltwater pool (the aforementioned harsh chemicals are not an issue) and as per my understanging must therefore must have stricter rules against soiling.
from my understanding, the Ministry of Health have suggested that it would be best if the breastfeeding did not take place in the pool, it is also my understanding that the owner is fine with breastfeeding taking place on the deck.
Tahena, this is a simple issue, they (public health, ministry of health) don’t suggest that feeding takes place in the pool.
I have two toddlers that swim, they get hungry, is it ok that I bring a bottle for my little girl and feed her in the pool? No it’s not. Just go to the deck and feed your child and return back to the pool, is that really that much of an inconvenience?
Again, I think breastfeeding in public is a woman’s right, I think breastfeeding is a great thing….just not in a public pool.
so if people don’t agree with you the are uninformed. Why don’t you do your research on the effects of public pool water / chemicals on children under 4. Try the CDC site. Chlorine DOES NOT KILL ALL PARASITES. Any pool user knows that. I also know for a fact that breast milk can carry many viruses. If the chance of contaminating someone is low, the other patrons and employees of public pools should still be protected.
Do you know why breastfeeding in a pool has never been an issue before….. Because no other womans has ever thought to so it before.
I wonder if these women are this militant on issues that are of real concern: violence in schools, drunk driving, bullying, child poverty etc….
they are taking their time (how they have this much time on their hands is beyond me) to protest having to breast feed in a pool?!!!
pick your battles, spend your protest time on issues that really plague our society!
All I have to say is WHY BREASTFEED IN THE POOL?? WHY?? What does it take to get out of the pool and go on the deck? For some reason I feel that Mrs Longuinho was just looking for a reaction, and now she is getting it.
Dudes. You are already swimming in breastmilk, if you allow lactating women in the pool. Period.
So any of the “why?” or “ew gross” comments, are completely null and void. It is there ALREADY. The health argument is completely false and should be stopped, now.
And I can’t even comment on the unbelievable brain-twisting it would take to compare a woman fulfilling a natural biological function with “eating a sandwich”. This is the problem: our culture still thinks of breastfeeding as a FOOD/DRINK issue, when it clearly is not. I don’t necessarily look to the US for my guidance on issues, but their CDC exempts breastmilk totally as a substance that falls into a food/drink category OR a “bodily fluid” category.
Maybe those getting their germy panties in a knot about a few drops of breastmilk in the pool should spend more time inventing a swim diaper that actually holds pee…. cause um, it doesn’t.
So, let me get this straight… the arguement is that if the mom gets out of the pool, sits right next to the water, and nurses, that’s all fine and dandy. She’s on the deck, not actually in the water, so no one cares, right? But if, while sitting on the deck, she dangles in her toes, that’s suddenly a health hazard? Or dangerous for the baby? If not, then what if she’s in to her knees? Her hips? A woman nursing a baby cannot have her breasts in the water. The baby would drown. So what exactly is it about having a baby at one’s nipple that makes one’s feet, or legs, or any other part of one’s body so completely unfit to be in the water?
If the arguement is that the baby might swallow some water, what about the water that will inevitably get swallowed just from having a baby in the pool playing? A breastfeeding baby’s mouth seals to the nipple to get the proper suction. Any splashed water is going to roll right off. A playing baby will have its mouth open at least some of the time, and any splashed water goes right in.
So, please, tell me again what the problem is?
has anyone seen a mother bottle feed her child inside the pool water?
The only time we should allow breastfeeding in a pool is when the ministry of health allows me to walk into a public pool water with a glass of milk for my 2 year old or a bottle of milk for
my 6 month old. Let’s correct this…. walk in with Unpasturized milk.
Have you seen this a protest from a mom who was not allowed to bottle feed inside the pool water.
The original post clearly states that she was sitting on the steps of the pool – not swimming in the pool like some posters seem to think. It also states that she was told to go nurse “in the changeroom” – that is NOT the same as on the deck.
For those concerned about the breastmilk getting into the water, have you never seen the giant wet marks on the shirt of a new mother whose child is crying – especially if she can’t get to it for some reason. NOT breastfeeding a hungry child gets much more milk into the water than feeding it would.
If a nursing woman (speaking generally – not necessarily about this case) needs to round up all of her older children and drag them from the pool so that they can go sit in the changeroom while she feeds the baby, she will be dripping milk directly into the pool for minutes instead of the second or two it would take her to get to the steps where she would have her upper body (where the milk is, remember) out of the pool for the nursing to actually take place and where she could still supervise other kids.
So unless you’re going to ban all actively lactating women, including the ones in the aqua-aerobics class who didn’t even bring the baby with them, the keep-breastmilk-out-of-our-water argument just doesn’t make any sense. Nursing your baby in as expedient a manner as possible DOES help keep breastmilk out of the water.
The ignorance about breastmilk and breastfeeding being expressed here unbelievable. But besides all of that, the mom clearly says she was on the STEPS of the pool…that is not IN the water to me. I’m sure no one would have a problem w/ a baby having a pacifier in her mouth in the pool, either, and nursing serves that purpose for completely breastfed babies. UGH, i won’t belabor the good points made about breastmilk and breastfeeding…sometimes you just can’t fight ignorance. I wish I was near there to come picket w/ my sign. I SO wish I was able to comfort nurse my adopted baby on the steps of the pool like I did my two bio kids!
Might as well change a child on the steps of the pool too
!
good one lisa. It’s a shame that we have to educate about where the pool steps are. THEY ARE IN THE POOL. THE MOM ALSO STATED THAT HALF HER BODY WAS IN THE WATER
Half her body isn’t her old dirty nasty leaky juicy icky boobies ( forgive me for using the b word, her bosoms? her girly chest things? her melons? no, what word would they have used in the Victorian age?? hmm..it’s too bad we don’t tape those things up anymore…). To compare poop to the most perfect food on earth, which iirc is sterile too and I know is antibacterial (ever use it for pink eye ladies?) is beyond ignorant…but i want call it what it is.
not comparing poop to milk! Just saying there is a place for everything! If you feed a baby on the steps in the pool , might as well change the baby too! What does it take to get up and move to the deck, is that too hard to do? is it too much exercise? This all comes to having a bit of brain or not…that’s all and I guess some people just don’t think!
You’re right, some don’t!
To restate… she was NOT asked to go to the deck to nurse- she was told to go to the CHANGEROOM! And, the complaint, from my understanding, was not that she was nursing in the pool, per se, it was that she was nursing AT ALL, IN PUBLIC! If the problem was that she was nursing while in the water, she would have been asked to go to the deck. However, she was told to go to the changeroom, where she wouldn’t be seen by anyone else who may complain. The “Icky Breastmilk in the Water” argument is completely moot, because it was not a HYGIENE issue- it was a NIP issue! And -THAT- is why the pool owner is being demonstrated against.
And what would happen if she listened and went in the change room??? Would the world come to a complete stop. If I was still breastfeeding my 8 month old daughter and I was in that situation I would get up and say ” no problem “and go to the change room! But I guess this lady just has way too much time on her hands and like Emmett mentioned before pick your battles, spend your protest time on issues that really plague our society!!!! Not over such a little thing!!
It’s a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT, that’s what! It’s one of MANY battles, but it IS a worthy battle.
Would you go to the back of the bus to do it too, Lisa? Would you go to the change room to give your baby a bottle? NO chance in hades.
Whether or not you agree with nursing in public, the fact of the matter is that in Ontario, there is a law that protects the right of a nursing mother to nurse her child in public anywhere she is authorized to be. By paying to be at the pool, she was legally authorized to be there, and therefore is protected under the law. Ms. Karkouti (the owner of the pool) VIOLATED THE LAW by asking her to leave the pool area and go to the changeroom. And she seems not to care. I fully support their right to nurse in public, as protected by the law in Ontario, and their right to peacefully protest the violation of that law. But, like Jake mentioned earlier, I wonder what other avenues she pursued prior to organizing a nurse-in.
By the way, if this incident happened in NJ, where I live, the owner of the pool could be brought on criminal charges and have to pay a fine every time she asks a woman to nurse in the changeroom! Ms. Karkouti is getting off easy in my opinion! You have my support, nursing moms of Ontario!
I have nursed my baby in public, but I would NEVER nurse in a public pool on the steps! And I wouldn’t get offended if I was asked to go to the change room. But again, this is me and this is the type of person I am. Some people just take little stuff too seriously! Live it up! Life is too short. Ms. Karkouti, I wish it was me who did that , this way you wouldn’t run into such problems with such people who have lots of time on their hands
Actually, I’d bet that these women and men who show up to help protest the violation of the nursing law are all quite busy. They are taking time out of their day for something they find to be important. Just because you don’t think this is a cause worthy to protest, don’t harsh these people for standing up for their rights. If everyone felt as you seem to do, nothing would ever change. Apathy kills me.
I’m sure in this world there are other more important stuff to protest about than this
I feel for Ms. Karkouti and he facility to have to deal with such people
I agree Jennifer B.
Actually she was asked to go to the viewing gallery or the change room only because there were comfortable chairs in both locations. The owner has stated numerous times that she did not consider to ask the mother to sit on the cement floor of the deck to breastfeed. If it was such an issue why didnt the mother ask to sit on the deck.
BECAUSE SHE TOO DID NOT WANT TO SIT On A COLD CEMENT FLOOR. the pool was nicer, warmer and more comfortable. Also saved her that minute to walk the 6 steps and bought her this 15 minutes of fame. This will come back and haunt her and her group.
So what happened? How did the protest go? Update please.
Hi Catherine — I will definitely update when I am at liberty to do so. I have been asked to await an official press release from the mother and her supporters.
In my opinion no one is discriminating against you. I believe a mother should be able to feed there baby where ever they need but i do believe that feeding a baby in a pool is unhygienic. It is unhygienic because some of the milk or the baby could spit up and that might get into the pool contaminating where other children swim. Also have you ever tired to vacuum a pool that size believe me it is hard work, plus put yourself in other people positions you would not want your children swimming in a pool where a women in breast feeding and at any time milk or spit up could go in the pool that is just unsanitary. No one is discriminating against you just put yourself in other people’s positions and realize all ends of this situation. You could feed on deck just not in the pool.
Plusss who on earth would breast feed a baby in a pool where there are so many chemicals and bacteria that just being hurtful toward the child
Aquacenter is a private swim school. Being a private swim school there are specific rules to be followed. If you are a customer, you should follow the rules, or. End of story. If you do not follow the rules you should be kicked out…not start a rally. If the owner happens to take time out of her busy schedule to asks you to do something, you should do it. If there are complaints being made that a woman is breastfeeding in the pool, where children are trying to learn how to swim, something should be done. The owner had every right to do something. If I was a child in the pool having lessons and I saw a baby sucking on a woman’s breast (if it was a nice pair), I would probably get distracted. If my parents saw me getting distracted when I was supposed to be paying attention (& they are paying money for those lessons), they would complain. Time is money. It was disrespectful to continue to stay in the pool after the owner had spoken to you. The owner was nice enough to offer you the change room to breastfeed; you did not obey… so why are YOU looking for an apology. You were the difficult one. The owner respected her customer’s wishes. YOU should be the one apologizing for not following rules. If I were the owner I would ban you from entering the facility. How ungrateful of you, you should have been kicked out!!
Peacee
a gang of twenty showed up to the pool. The owner had locked the door and was waiting to meeting them outside. She waited for the gang leader (carol ann) to discuss the protest. The owner asked for a compromise that kept the health of all her clients ( including the baby being breastfed) in mind. Moms could breastfeed anywhere in the pool except for in or around the pool water. The gang including the mom refused. They kept saying it was the moms right to breastfeed in the pool water (even after the manager of the health department had told her it was unsafe for her baby (as per moms own emails)). In order to shield her other clients from the insanity, the owner prevented them from entering.
One note… I think the mom was there with a much younger baby then the one she was breastfeeding during the first incident. He was approx 3 years old….. This one looked like it was only months old. That’s just wrong
OMG!!! Joanne I have read your posts on several sites with great amusement… you are so very wrong on so many levels. I am going to post this response here and elsewhere – why re-type – you seem to ignore it all anyways. So many people have given good, reliable information, that has proof behind it… but here goes… a few more points to ponder.
I think you need to reread the moms own e-mails about what the health dept manager said as I saw them and that’s not what they said.
I think you also you need to get a grip – do you really think that a mother, any mother, would go out and get a different child to nurse? IF (and big IF) she was nursing a 3 year old the first time – where was her “months” old baby the second time? I’d like to see you prove she switched kids because it sounds ridiculous.
When you say “That’s just wrong” are you referring to her allegedly bringing another child or that you think she was nursing a 3 year old? If it’s the first – well you seem to be falling off your rocker… if it’s the second… maybe you should read the World Health Organization, Canadian and American Pediatric Society Asociations guidelines on breastfeeding – which should be continued to 2 years and BEYOND!!! Just because this part of the world seems to prefer formula feeding does mean that breastfeeding for years is wrong – it just means that the formula companies have phenomenal advertising campaigns.
Way to go Cinira if your child is over 2 years!!! Hey maybe you did bring a different child – the first time you’d leave a “months” old baby at home and come with a nursing 3 year old – second time, you come with the “baby”… good for you if you’re nursing 2!!!
Joanne, you stated:
“It is highly likely that the child may spit up, throw up, or poo in the pool during or after feeding.” So IF this is the case – why is it ok to feed on the deck, in the changeroom etc and then come into the pool – if they can spit up or have a bowel movement AFTER feeding then they shouldn’t be allowed in the pool after eating… Also breastfed children spit up less than formula fed and after the first couple months they poop less frequently while formula fed poop more often… so if breastfed children should not be in pools during or after feeding, then it would be even less acceptable for formula fed babies to be in the pool (not that I actually think this – just trying to follow this woman’s logic – but since so much of this is illogical maybe it’s a lost cause).
Anyone else read that the CDC (the world-renowned leading authority on infectious diseases) says breastmilk requires NO special handling – that it’s NOT a biohazard – unlike urine or stool – which are the body’s WASTE products.
Is breastmilk unsafe for employees? Well read this:
the U.S. Occupational Safety and Health
Administration, was asked whether their regulation “Occupational Exposure to Bloodborne
Pathogens” applied to breastmilk. “They replied that,
Breast milk is not included in the standard’s definition of “other potentially
infectious materials”. Therefore contact with breast milk does not constitute
occupational exposure, as defined by the standard.”
You’ve argued that it’s health regulations – well maybe you should reread that too – health dept may say no food or drink in the pool but they also say not on the pool DECK – so if the owner is so adamant about not allowing breastfeeding in the pool – why is she (now) ok with it on the deck??? If she is following the health dept regulations she/you keep quoting – why is she ok with on the deck???
And then – in your own words “Moms could breastfeed anywhere in the pool except for in or around the pool water.” – is the pool deck not “around” the water? Which is it – does she allow on the pool deck, not on the pool deck, around the water or not around the water? Seems to me she doesn’t even know.
And the worry about the safety of a breastfeeding (or bottle-feeding) child “being splashed” or “ingesting water” – obviously some people do not have an understanding of how a child, sucking on a breast, uses their mouth – they create suction around the nipple – they can’t nurse if they don’t have an airtight seal – so water CAN’T get in, unlike bottle-feeding where the child CAN have their mouth half open and the bottle can still be dripping in.
It also seems that people have either not been swimming themselves or with children – EVERYONE, adult or child, gets water in their bodies – through ears, eyes, mouth, nose, as well as ABSORBED through the body’s largest organ – SKIN. If the harsh chemicals bother you – then NO one, not infant, not child, nor adult should be near them. Didn’t the owner herself say somewhere that the chemical suppliers said that the chemicals are not safe for those under the age of 5? If she is so worried about the safety of children – why does she allow ANYONE under the age of 5 in her pool? Didn’t someone say she was pregnant – will she allow her baby in the pool before the age of 5? Can’t imagine the owner of a pool would keep her own child from entering the water until the age of 5.
Does anyone else see the contradictions?
Joanne, it seems obvious that you have some sort of personal stake in this – no one else, even if they disagree, is as adamant as you after reading ALL the info (as I have done) – so either you are the owner or the Aquacentre, the person who complained or what you have accused so many of – someone with nothing to do… of maybe just being paid by the owner.
I really feel that the owner did something against the law – she’s admitted that she told the woman to move – it does not matter where, the act of asking is against the Human Rights code. The health department has said there is no regulation against breastfeeding in or out of the pool – so in the absence of that regulation doesn’t the Human Rights code prevail?
But even if the owner is so sure of herself – has she taken the time to consult a lawyer? She spent the time and money to hire security guards (3-4), with bullet-proof vests no less, to “protect” her pool against a “gang” of babies, toddlers, kids and parents – but has she actually taken a few minutes to see what her own lawyer might advise? Would that not be a good investment?
Maybe when the mother told the owner it was her right to breastfeed a “well I disagree, would you mind moving while I try to figure this out?” sort of thing might have gone a long way… anyone try that?
If anyone wants to fight for the right to bottle(formula) feed in or around the pool – go for it – you want toddlers to bring in sippy sups of juice – go fight for it. Stop whining about what you don’t have and go fight for it if it bothers you that much.
You mention:
“there is a difference between alberta and ontario” – what is the difference? Do they have different water? different chemicals? different breastmilk that doesn’t contaminate? do they care less about their health? In what way, besides the obvious distance, are they different? Are you discriminating against them because you think they’re stupid for allowing breastmilk in pools?
You’ve also mentioned:
“what is the cost associated to allowing people to breastfeed in the pool.” Did you really ask this? I can not figure out what costs there would be because if breastfeeding is allowed/considered safe then all you have to do is leave moms alone – no pool “decontamination” or other costs required.
The woman was asked to move – a direct violation of the Human Rights code – AFTERWARDS health and other “issues” were brought up – NOT DURING the incident.
So to Joanne, and others who think breastmilk is unsanitary, thank you, for so many chuckles – you.
PS- And since it’s highly likely you are the complainant – what’s really the problem with a breast? God made them or they evolved for a reason – to nourish our children or survival of the species – whatever you believe – just because somewhere along the way SOME societies decided that they were a sexual object doesn’t mean we need to be afraid of them… and if someone has a problem with their (older) children staring – maybe you should teach that it’s not polite to stare. Of course, if everyone who can breastfeed (which is 95-98% of mothers) did, then no one would think twice about any of this.
I’m sure breastfeeding women get discriminated all the time in various places by ignorant people…I think it’s overall a good fight if that occurs…problem is, THIS IS NOT DISCRIMINATION!…This Carol Ann clearly just wants create trouble…any sane, intelligent, reasonable and compromising person would see this and would accept sitting on deck, breastfeeding, and then return to the pool. The public health dept themselves said they recommend that women not breast feed in or near the pool water.
Christy made a comment that “what’s she supposed to do, leave with all her children to breastfeed?” (not exact quote)…well I’d be concerned for a the safety of her other children if she is breastfeeding one and “thinks” she can supervise the other ones in a pool. Ridiculous.
As Joanne intelligently said, the Ministry of Health said they have never heard of an incident like this before …why…..because no one has been so unreasonable to do it before.
Again, standing up for your rights is a good thing, breastfeeding, and breastfeeding in public is a good thing and a right that everyone women should enjoy should they choose to…but c’mon…pick your battles, the ring leader of this protest is pathetic.
I can think of atleast 1000 important issues spend valuable protest time on….not being able to breastfeed in a pool (when the deck is 6 feet away) is…well again…pathetic.
Again, working in the health care / education field as long as I have….you start to realize that there are people that are so bored with their lives that they need drama, and excitement, they need to hear their own voice heard, they need to draw attention to themselves….I do believe this is the case here.
I’m confused. All these qualified healthcare people are saying that breastmilk is unsanitary and are comparing it to human waste. Should I have been feeding it to my baby for the past 7 months? I mean she was premature, can her vulnerable body handle it? Or is it safe for an infant, but dangerous for everyone else. My husband a bit of the oatmeal mixed with breastmilk, should we be concerned for his well being? Especially if a small amount can make an entire pool suspect. I do agree though that this is a ridiculous argument, and we could all be doing better things right now if the owner had just told the complainant to go to the changing room if they had a problem with it.
Well said, Emmett. I agree with you 100%
One thing I would like to add is that danger in having breastmilk in the pool may not be due to harmful pathogens that may be within the milk. I’m not sure about how a salt water pool is disinfected, but I’m assuming it is similar to a fresh water pool (if not I am open to correction. I can’t seem to find any information on the internet about it). A fresh water pool uses chlorine and/or ozone to neutralize any harmful organisms in the pool water. These chemicals work by deactivating protein. These deactivate any proteins, not just those on harmful organisms. Bodily fluids also contain proteins. The ratio of protein to chemical is very important and is why pool operators monitor that balance frequently. If there are more protein in the water, you would need more chemicals to deactivate it. Pool operators try to minimize the amount of bodily fluids in the water by asking patrons not to eat, spit or urinate in the pool. Patrons are asked to shower to wash off as much excess sweat and other protein-based substances that may be on their bodies as possible. I think breastfeeding would be on the list too, if it occurred to anyone before this incident that a woman would want to do this.
Yes, people will sweat, spit, urinate in the pool and yes, a lactating woman would leak breast milk into the pool. The idea is to keep this to a MINIMUM so that the minimum amount of chemical can be added. More protein in the pool equals more chemicals in the pool, but there is a maximum amount of chemical that can be safely added. Once that maximum is reached, there is the possibility that the chemical is so busy deactivating these benign proteins that the harmful microorganism survives. It is this harmful organism that makes you sick..most likely a nasty diarrhea or skin infection. Hardly life-threatening to the average person, but not a whole lot of fun either. And what about the people that may have compromised immune systems? I understand that this pool is a therapeutic facility which may have patrons who can’t fight off the nasty microorganisms like a healthy person would. Who watches out for them? I’m glad this pool owner was.
So maybe the amount of protein from one baby breast feeding in the water isn’t enough to disrupt the whole protein/chemical balance of the pool, but what about several breast feeding babies in addition to their urinating older siblings? Do we allow 1, 2, 5 babies but not 30, 40, 50 babies? Isn’t it much easier to control the protein entering the pool by asking all mothers to nurse elsewhere or ask people to leave the pool to urinate than dump a whole bunch of chemicals in the water? I think it is especially since, as others have said, it is difficult to stop kids are urinating in the pool and the chemicals have their own associated risk.
My faith has been restored, after reading Kelly’s comment…there are intelligent people out there with common sense.
thank you Kelly.