Breastfeeding Rights Rally in Ontario on November 7, 2008
November 6, 2008 by Angela White, J.D., breastfeeding counselor
Filed under activism, breastfeeding, law
Image by _shward_ of past breastfeeding rally
You are invited to a breastfeeding rights rally on Friday, November 7, 2008, in Newmarket, Ontario.
The Breastfeeding Discrimination Incident
Nursing mother Cinira Longuinho explains:
I was breastfeeding my daughter on the steps of the swimming pool when Ms. Ellie Karkouti, the owner of the facility, came to speak with me. Ms. Karkouti said they had one complaint and that I could not breastfeed my daughter in the swimming pool. She said if I wanted to breastfeed I would have use the changeroom. I tried to say that based on the law I had the right to breastfeed in public places but Ms. Karkouti said that she was the owner and I could only breastfeed in the changeroom. After that I stopped breastfeeding. Ms. Ellie Karkouti left. I stayed in the swimming pool.
It was the first time I have suffered discrimination in my life! I wanted to cry so bad. I tried to pretend this has never happened. My daughter kept asking to nurse and I denied her while we were in the pool. My heart was broken. I did not know what to do. I was completely sad, lost and numb.
Only after a few hours, I believe I started to think clearly again.
I informed the group of families registered for this swim time at The Aquacentre about the terrible episode. The leader of this activity, Carol-Anne Brockington, sent an email to The Aquacentre asking for an apology. Their feedback was “At no point did we discriminate against the act of breastfeeding.” They did not offer any apology.
After several emails of support from mothers ready to fight for the right to breastfeed, we have decided to organize a Breastfeeding Rights Rally, a peaceful nurse-in for Friday, November 7th in The Aquacentre at 2:30pm.
Details of the Rally
Friday Nov 7th, The Aquacentre Pool at 2:30-3:30pm
1215 Stellar Dr., Newmarket, Ontario L3Y 7B8
Phone: 905 895 2782, Fax: 905 853 4229,
email: info@aquacentrenewmarket.com and ellie@trinityrehab.com
Longuinho adds:
Please inform as many people as you can about this discrimination episode and the nurse-in…. Also, everybody is welcome to the peaceful nurse-in, you do not have to breastfeed to participate! All support is welcome! If you are unable to attend the nurse-in personally please feel free to email, phone or fax the facility to voice your concerns over this incident and show your support of breastfeeding rights – anywhere, anytime!
Unfortunately, the Aquacentre in Newmarket is a private facility that charges to use the pool. For this reason, to be able to participate in the Breastfeeding Rights Rally it is required that you pay the fee of $5.25 per swimmer. I wish it was not necessary to pay but the law requests it. We also welcome supporters that would like to be outside with signs. Please bring your own sign! Supporters that will be outside do not need to pay any fee.
I think one problem with the argument “don’t waste your time protesting, this is trivial” is the fact that most breastfeeding mothers experience discrimination while nursing in public at LEAST once during their nursing experience, if not multiple times. As a nurse in maternal child health and a mother of 3 children who breast fed a cumulative 7 years(my sons for 5 years with a 3 year overlap tandem nursing, and my adopted daughter for 9 months tandem with my younger son) I have heard from mom’s of being asked to leave churches, restaurants, shopping malls and YES pools. The point of the law is to protect mothers and babies from such discrimination-how can we expect to make the incomparably healthier breastfeeding the norm if mothers are afraid to leave their homes for fear of being accosted, and experiencing the humiliation of being interfered with and asked to leave while simply caring for their child in the most natural and healthful way possible. The response to these incidences may seem “over the top” to some, but let me ask you this, If a black person were asked to leave the pool area because they are “unsanitary” against all fact and scientific findings, would ANYONE be arguing in favor of the owner? I think NOT. This is what we are fighting-prejudice and ignorance, and NO incidence can be ignored, passed over or minimized, for the sake of our children.
Cinira is just selfish. She was nursing a two or three-year-old (stories differ), which means she had plenty of opportunity to explain to the child that it wasn’t a good place to nurse. In fact, she missed a perfectly good opportunity to teach self-control and restraint and civilized behaviour. She could have said something like “we can go and sit on the chairs over there, or we can get dressed and go home now” – she didn’t have to make a big scene. She could have gotten out of the water and gone out on the deck or the viewing area, but no – she had to be a drama mama.
So now her selfishness has probably made the owner decide that all women with small children are a potential problem, and they will all be turned away from the facility. No doubt somebody will then decide to try to nurse a five-year-old there, just to make a political point.
Nothing, but nothing, will deter these people from deciding that they have the right to inconvenience everybody else in the world for their own selfish agenda.
If I were swimming in the pool, I wouldn’t want somebody breastfeeding in the water either. Whatever happened to discretion and the use of common sense?
I think breastfeeding in the pool was the wrong thing to do.
You may or may not be a good person but your breast milk may be contaminated with herpes, hepatitis C, or many other diseases such as listeriosis. You do not have the right to expose everyone in the pool to diseases you may have but do not know you have. You should also be aware that children use the pool and will be exposed to diseases that you may not know you have.
I would also point out that while breast milk is harmless to almost everyone, breast milk that is allowed to sit out for a couple of hours can become fatal. The bacteria in the pool are obviously resistant to salt water, and because breast milk is a human product bacteria that “eat” humans will proliferate on it. This will produce small colonies of extremely dangerous bacteria that can easily kill an infant or incapacitate a grown man. E. Coli is one example. Another one you have probably never heard of is S. Aurelin, which causes agonizing cramps and is very common. The worst case scenario would be a breast milk being contaminated with the omnipresent C. botulinum bacteria and becoming trapped in a water jet or other airless area. After four hours it may have produced enough toxin to kill an entire pool full of people.
And to the person who laughingly suggested that milk baths are good, what would you say to the parent of a child who is allergic to milk and has a reaction in the pool? If it is a mild reaction, such as dizziness or disorientation, that can be fatal if it happens in water.
You might think i am overreacting, but the threshold for an allergic reaction is quite small. It doesn’t have to be a large amount and unless you have personally tested every child you have no way of knowing.
The bottom line is that you do not have the right to expose other people to your breast milk or any other bodily fluids.
Bill, it’s amazing that Cinara does not recognize common sense like you just presented…again, it seems like it’s not common sense she’s looking for, she’s just looking for good ol’ fashioned drama.
bwahahaha…ohhh me, you guys are giving me such laughs each day. If i didn’t laugh, i’d cry. Anyhoo…waiting on a more official and truthful and accurate report from Angela on how the rally went! Thanks for posting the law, too…apparently it’s meaningless to some ignorant prudes though. Sigh.
Another discrimination complaint, this time against Walmart in SC. This time, they actually removed the woman’s older child as she sat with her baby about to begin nursing! You can read the article yourself here: http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9331930&nav=0RaPH6Oz
These kinds of things happen all the time against nursing mothers. In most places (if not all??) it is illegal to ask a mother to move if she is nursing (Jake- maybe you can clarify about the laws in the US). Because women who NIP often face discrimination, it makes us very aware of our rights, and very eager to defend those rights. This is a civil rights issue, and needs to be treated as such. Arbitrary compliance with the law pretty much makes the law useless. We cannot choose which laws to follow, depending on who we are and how we feel about a topic. The pool owner violated this woman’s rights. If she had an objection to a woman nursing inside the pool (not just in her facility), then she should have taken that up with the health department and the legislative body of Canada. The laws could have been modified, if there were just cause, to provide an exemption for nursing in a public pool. But until that exemption is made into law, Ms. Karkouti violated the law as it stands by asking the mother to leave. Simple as that. If anyone in Canada objects, talk to your representative about having the law change. Otherwise, just live with it.
Bill, I’m a microbiologist and you’ve got the information on the pathogens wrong. I’ll correct the errors if anyone is interested, but it is really off topic.
The allergy angle is an interesting point, but would be very, very, very rare scenario. Nature would not allow an allergy to the food that feeds us to such a degree.
I also found this today…notice how her story is a little different this time. If I had read this article first, I’d be more inclined to support her. Is that why she changed her version of events? Fascinating. I can hardly wait to see what the judge thinks of this. Personally, I think it damages her creditability and since her word is the only “proof” she has that this event took place. The owner has a video for her defense.
http://www.parentcentral.ca/parent/article/535310
i am legally allowed to pick/blow my nose, pull off scabs, scratch my anus, etc. anywhere i feel like, public or private. are these the type of activities i would partake in while visiting my neighbourhood swimming pool? no.
just because something is deemed “legal” by our society, does not mean that you can throw your common sense out the window. there are the right places to do things, and the wrong places to do things, and it seems to me as if Cinira Longuinho has purposely attempted to push buttons in order to make a big deal out of herself. also, a 20-month-old toddler should be able to exercise a little bit of restraint as far as feeding times go; otherwise, it would seem as if mom has maybe neglected an earlier feeding or improperly planned her day’s activities.
and how would miss Longuinho feel if i stood there staring at her while she fed? that’s perfectly legal too, but i bet she’d take offense.
one final question: would all you pool-goers feel just as comfortable at your pool if every single woman showed up bare-breasted during your children’s swim time? just because it’s legal, doesn’t mean there aren’t still more appropriate times an places.
this is not a human rights issue; it’s an idiocy issue, and women like this one tend to ruin it for the rest of the world.
also, on the deck or in the pool, there’s no food or drink allowed.
miss Longuinho was told that they have “comfortable chairs in the change room or the viewing gallery” where she could breastfeed. but miss Longuinho was too immersed in conversation with her friends to want to move; “Longuinho, 32, was chatting with a bunch of mothers and kids during their weekly, hour-long swim session at AquaCenter when her daughter became cranky. Rather than climb out of the warm water onto the cool deck, out of range of her friends, Longuinho started nursing Camilla on the stairs, with her breasts above water.” so it comes down to convenience for miss Longuinho, then; what if her child had been across the room while she was chatting with her friends? what then? finish your thoughts and then attend to your child.
sad, really.
i mean, it’s perfectly legal for me to smoke cigarettes and blow my smoke into your baby’s face, but i don’t do that based on what i consider to be public etiquette.
where did the common courtesy in this world go? how is it that there is another stupid human rights violation cry every other day? can we not focus on the real issues that are plaguing our youth today? guns, knives, violence, stupiidty, hunger, poverty, abuse?
i guess those aren’t as important these days; not unless you can get your name in the newspaper for speaking up, huh?
Hey Jean, if breasts aren’t sexual, then what’s the deal with low-cut tops and sexy bras?
Get with the times.
In regards to the claim that breastmilk left out can “become fatal” You are thinking of formula which spoils rapidly especially after mixing with the bacteria in a child’s mouth. This is why bottle feeding mothers are advised to throw away a bottle of formula after one hour if it has been even sipped by your child. Breastmilk, in contrast, kills bacteria and will have less bacteria after 12 hours at room temperature than when it is first pumped. Ignorance and discrimination. This is why women are still receiving shoddy treatment while breastfeeding.
“Bill, I’m a microbiologist and you’ve got the information on the pathogens wrong. I’ll correct the errors if anyone is interested, but it is really off topic.”
“The allergy angle is an interesting point, but would be very, very, very rare scenario. Nature would not allow an allergy to the food that feeds us to such a degree.”
Kelly, i would be very interested to hear the errors in my post about microbes. I took microbiology for years as well, and although i never got a degree in it i am quite versed in the subject.
Nature does not “allow” anything. People are allergic to corn, milk, microbes, beef, tomatoes, and virtually all other food products. The most common allergy is dust, which is almost always discarded human skin.
To Catherine, breast milk that is pumped and kept in a sterile location will indeed be safe after 12 hours. Breast milk that has had direct contact with human fecal, nasal, and genital discharges is unlikely to be safe for consumption in a very short time.
All I have to say is that “baby” is 20 months old!!!! 20 months!!! Learn to say no to your kids and feed them before you go to a place where you know there are not food or drinks allowed in the pool or on the deck!
I typed out a long response for Bill but I didn’t see it added. Bill, you can email me at gr8blessings (at) hotmail (dot) com. I’m probably setting myself up for a whole lot of spam, but you having the correct information if you desire it, is important to me.
Has anyone considered the religious ramifications of this incident? I don’t know what the various religions say about exposure to human byproducts. I know that Jehova’s witnesses would rather die than have blood or organ transplants, so i am guessing that involuntarily exposing them to human breast milk is a big no-no.
Kelly, would it be possible to give a link to what you wrote or a link to something that backs up what you say?
WOW, this is something blown way out of proportion. You guys need a hobby or something else to do with your life. The lady was given the option to go else where and do her private business with her child and your complaining of discrimination. You make it seem like you were kicked off the property. If I was the onwer of the business I wouldn’t want my customers walking in and the first thing they see is you breastfeeding your child. Do it privately, you don’t need everyone else to see you do it.
I think this is just a stupid arguement, I wouldn’t want my child to see that nor myself. It’s a facility thats used by more than one person.
This is nothing but a case of bad tact, and a human rights complaint? Sorry but She should not be blamed for an udder lack of manners…
for the “pseudoscience” idiots here:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20081113.LBREASTFEED13/EmailTPStory/TPEntertainment
Peter, Its not private biz. She was feeding her child, do you have children? If so do you think you have to feed them in a private area? I dont agree with inside the pool of course, but You wouldnt want ppl to walk in and see that? So I guess if a mom was bottle feeding you wouldnt want someone to walk in and see that either? I think this was all blown way out then what it should have been. And it sounds like if she kept nursing she would have been kicked out. Until you can nurse a baby you will not know what its like. I did nurse my child until he turned One, but I also used a shawl out in public. I do believe woman can cover up as I dont think everyone has to watch, It is between a mother and her baby, so since Iam a respectful person I covered myself not only so others wouldnt watch but I dont really want others to see. A lot of these comments are rude and just shouldnt have been said. Sure she shouldnt nurse in the pool, you should never swim when you have just eaten. But she should have been able to nurse out there in the open area if she wanted. Not behind a closed door. Until you guys live it, you cant really have a say in it I dont think. And you are not gonna get Hep a or b or whatever from it. Did any of you know that Ben and Jerrys ice cream wants to use womans breast milk for their ice cream???
Hey Amanda,
Thanks for the link. As was mentioned previously, the pool is not Chlorinated. It’s a salt water pool.
Coincidentally, the doctors cited in that paper do mention HIV and hepatitis as diseases you can get from breast milk, which negates anything you say or do from this point on.
“When it comes to blood-borne illnesses that may be carried by the mother, Dr. McGeer says HIV-positive mothers are discouraged from breastfeeding and a mom with hepatitis B would only be infectious if her breasts were cracked and bleeding into the breast milk. In that case, regulations prohibiting swimming with open sores would presumably apply.”
Most people who have HIV do not know it. Based on that alone, this argument is over and you have lost.
You should be able to breastfeed your child anywhere you want. Everyone who is “shocked” and thinks it is “gross” is an idiot.
anon Writes…You should be able to breastfeed your child anywhere you want. Everyone who is “shocked” and thinks it is “gross” is an idiot.
OK at the Alter at a wedding? During a eulagy, perhaps at a Graduation ceremony pehaps? I don’t think it’s gross it is natural – I think lack of tact is the larger issue!
There is no scientific evidence that HIV can be passed from mother to baby from breastmilk. HIV-positive mothers are discouraged from breastfeeding because we don’t know if it is safe or not. I believe HIV is a standard bloodtest done when women are pregnant.
Also I believe that basic chemistry tells us that salt (NaCl or sodium chloride) used in saltwater pools generates chlorine by low-voltage electrolysis; so the pool is chlorinated because it is a saltwater pool! (old pools use powder chlorine).
The whole breastmilk contaminating the pool argument is crazy – we are talking about such minute amounts. How about you use these arguments to debate fecal matter that leaks out of babies diapers getting into the water and contaminating the pool! And what happens if the baby happened to recently have had a vaccination – there would be live viruses in the baby’s poo that ends up in the pool! Now that may be a health risk – not a mother breastfeeding a baby near or having parts of her body ‘in’ a pool.
K Armstrong – you say it’s natural but you also say it’s a matter of tact… guess you’re saying that I should have declined being a pall bearer at my aunt’s funeral when my daughter was 3 weeks old and nursing around the clock… that I should have stayed home from the funeral because nursing during a eulogy is tactless… well I took my baby, I did part of the eulogy, it gave everyone great joy to see my baby and I there, her nursing – reaffirming life… so I’ve been there – I’ve also nursed in church on other occasions – as God gave me breasts I can’t see how he would object to me using them as intended – to nourish and comfort my child.
I guess I should also have not gone to the funeral of a woman who babysat me from the time I was born until about 12, the woman who was a second mother to me and a relative through marriage when my second daughter was 9 days old… because it would be tactless to nurse at a funeral.
I think you should think before you post such absolutely INSENSITIVE and TACTLESS posts. I hope you never lose someone close to you and have to face a choice like you present – your comments are outright offensive.
And for the record – I’ve also nursed at weddings… don’t recall a graduation at the moment but hey – maybe down the road.
I have nursed at a funeral too. Most people did not even notice, and if they did, they did not say anything. I am sure they preferred a quiet, contented child (who got to attend her great-grandmother’s funeral) to an unhappy child (or a child who had to be removed, which would have meant I could not attend either).
Also:
I am putting this same disclaimer on each of the recent controversial posts:
I leave the comments open to opinions on both sides. In general, comments will not be deleted unless, in my opinion, they involve name-calling or threatening, or are generally offensive. Debate is fine, opinion is fine, calling someone “a terrible person” is not fine (yes someone did this and that is why her comment did not appear). I have also edited comments to delete inappropriate material but let the rest of the comment stand. If a particular post becomes too much of a problem, I will close the comments.
Here is the comment policy, but I use my discretion in all cases:
http://www.breastfeeding123.com/let%e2%80%99s-talk-about-breasts-baby-let%e2%80%99s-talk-about-you-and-me/
If you think your comment did not appear in error, feel free to try posting it again, and/or rephrasing it nicely. I know Kelly mentioned she posted a long comment that did not appear — that must have been due to a computer glitch on one end or the other as I did not moderate it out.
K.Armstrong said:
“OK at the Alter at a wedding? During a eulagy, perhaps at a Graduation ceremony pehaps? I don’t think it’s gross it is natural – I think lack of tact is the larger issue!”
Yes, sure at the alter at a wedding..or baptism (especially) or Communion..or.. especially to “shut up” a crying or cranky baby..just as any bottle feeding mother would stick a bottle in the baby’s mouth or a pacifier. Yes at a eulogy, absolutely..what a comfort for mourners to see life go on in such a beautiful way! Especially if the child is 2 or 3 orwhatever and severely missing a Nana, or somone special who died. Yes, at a graduation, absolutely, especially (again to “shut up” the child for ppl like you who require such “tact”) if the child is at risk for catching a cold or virus going around and in greater need for those wonderful antibodies in the pure breastmilk. Which is more of a “Product” rather than a “biproduct” as someone else called it, making it equal to “waste.”
This thing you are calling “tact” is an invention of the 20th century and has greatly hindered mothers in their ability to nurse their children…it is one of the many things that has contributed to more mothers giving up and going to bottle feeding.
Thank you Angela! I was hoping you had more of an accurate account of how the protest really went down, than a few presented it here. You never came back and said more… ???
Thank you Sonja, that is the whole point of the salt…serves same purpose as the chorine. Duh. Bill, we aren’t in kindergarten (i don’t think) so it’s not a “we won, we won, we shot the b.b. gun, you lost you lost you ate the applesauce” thing LOL The only ones who stand to lose are the babies and mothers. And if your theory holds true, you should not swim in a public pool period…there could be any number of people in there w/ open sores and various body fluids gushing out who “dont’ know” they have HIV yet. puh-leeze…..
Hi Amanda — I posted an update here:
http://www.breastfeeding123.com/update-on-breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario/
Usually a when I link to a previous post it leaves a comment but sometimes it doesn’t or it isn’t clear it was from me. Sorry about that!
I have also heard since that update that a claim has been filed with the Human Rights Commission.
Hi Amanda — I posted an update here:
http://www.breastfeeding123.com/update-on-breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario/
Usually a when I link to a previous post it leaves a comment but sometimes it doesn’t or it isn’t clear it was from me. Sorry about that!
I have also read in a news story since that update that a claim has been filed with the Human Rights Commission. I have not heard directly from the parties involved.
By any chance is Cinira’s baby going hungry? She seems to be caught up in this useless argument when she has a hungry baby by her side. Don’t you have some breastfeeding to do?
So very sad that Cirina feels the need to harass this poor pool owner over such foolishness. Rules are rules- No Food or Drink in the Pool- perfectly reasonable request, yes? It’s not discrimination to ask Cirina to play be the rules. It would be discrimination if she WERE allowed to feed her toddler in the pool- discrimination against everyone else!
Really, how hard is it to get out of the pool with a smile, feed the kid, and hop back in? Less effort than harassing the pool owner, that’s for sure! Such a sad commentary on selfishness and disrespect for your fellow man.
Cirina is very clearly looking for money here. And attention, but mostly money, I’m sure.
K Armstrong – I am still waiting to hear a response to what I feel are insensitive remarks about nursing at a funeral. Perhaps your silence says it all – I would be embarrassed to respond after I put my foot in it but I would also be sorry.
I hope that if nothing else you reconsider your views and put a bit more thought into something before you post on a public forum.
I wish you all the best and hope again that you do not have to make a choice such as you presented.
Hey Jean/ Amanda et al, just returned from the weekend…sorry for your loss. OK anytime anywhere? Where does it end (without your emotions this time) driving a car? flying a plane? in a bar? How about you decide not to give a damn about others to your own exclusion. I suppose breast pumps were invented for mysterious reasons to you? You folks are a frindge…Emotive issues aside???
jean…K Armstrong – I am still waiting to hear a response to what I feel are insensitive remarks about nursing at a funeral.
I did not say funeral, I said eulogy is in you are at the podium, convocation as in you at at the podium, Alter at a wedding as you are standing at the Altar… not sitting in seats which people do, which is natural – however there are moments (brief) where you might have to stop, think and deliver without calling anyone else out on a Human Rights issue? No tact is not deceased…
K…let’s see….leisure time at the pool sitting in/on the edge of the pool while watching your older kids swim for…30 min? an hour?….is not the same as 5min? 10 min? of giving a speech, you’re exactly right. HERE is where your “common sense” comes in to play, yes. Duh. Driving a car…is one thing that full time breast feeding mothers do have to deal with in their own personal space and time..it is not a public place where she is being denied her rights and her baby’s rights. FWIW, on trips, my husband always drove and I sat in the back next to baby’s car seat and would lean over her seat and feed her going down the road as she was strapped into her seat. I was pretty discreet, but what is next? Are you gonna see me doing that while driving and cry “tactless” and say that I can’t because you had to see it??? Flying a plane? That is a career (pretty low percentage of women pilots btw) choice that a mother makes and decides not to breastfeed full time, but perhaps pump, yes…THAT is what breast pumps are made for… career CHOICES and emergencies…or I used it to help induce lactation for my adopted daughter. The point is, this has nothing to do w/ “giving a damn about others”…because IT DOES NOT AFFECT or HARM others! THis isn’t second hand smoke people. FRINGE?? only in your small narrow sight of the world. Look to statements by all the major medical groups, and WHO, etc etc…. breastfeeding is different from bottle feeding..its MORE natural…its done on DEMAND, not a schedule, because of it’s unique biological make up/nature. A baby attached to a mother is nothing obscene…it just does not matter where in public she is…I have known professors who DID breastfeed btw right in front of their class, w/ their baby in a sling. and the students didn’t even know it or see a breast. So yes, breastfeeding CAN happen in front of a crowd and it’s not YOUR right to STOP it!
Well put Amanda. I dont understand what the fuss is all about. I dont think woman that dont breast feed will ever fully understand how us woman that do or did breast feed feel about the subject. You cant fight for it cuz you dont fully understand if if you have never nursed before. How can some ppl look at breast feeding as gross or however they feel when they see a woman nursing, its a beautiful natural thing that god had intended on woman doing, so whats the proplem? Was it just cuz someone did it in a pool? I think she could have gotten out of the pool, cuz as someone mentioned there could be viruses and what not in there from kids, why would you want to feed your child in there anyways? I dont believe she should have had to go in a private room tho. I do think woman can cover themselves in public, which is what I did. Its not hard to just rest a shawl or blanket across you. But some of you on here are making it seem like we are discussing for nursing in public, which is not right for you to say, when this is what was intended for breasts to do.
Amanda – THANK YOU – you saved me typing – DITTO – DITTO – DITTO to what you’ve put.
*Anytime, anywhere*- Sure, no problem. But not when you’re forcing others to come into contact your body fluids. Like in a pool. In fact, a pool is just about the only example where you’re imposing your fluids on others without their consent. That’s what makes breastfeeding in a pool rude and inconsiderate. Slide your rear end up onto the deck, and it’s all good. Courtesy, folks.
Really Angela, I don’t know how you stand it.
What part of getting into the pool was without consent? Did I miss the part where everyone else was being water boarded? Which swimmers were tested for all communicable diseases, scrubbed clean of all harmful bacteria (if that were even possible), and had every orifice (including skin pores) sealed tight?
Humans are leaky oozing beings – sometimes that is good, sometimes that is bad, and sometimes it is just not worth all this discussion. We come in contact with the bodily fluids of strangers every time we leave our homes. For those of you who find this significantly interferes with your quality of life, I understand there are some medications available to help you handle the anxiety.
Courtesy, frankly, is keeping your opinions about how other people should feed their children to yourself. If there really was some health risk posed by dropslets of breastmilk in the pool, I am sure the owner will be able to present evidence of that before the Ontario Commission. If the health code which governs her left a reasonable question in her mind as to how she should handle the situation, I am sure the proceedings will clarify that and the pool owner will be spared.
I can’t believe this is still going on! Give it up already people! The kid was 20 month old! This lady is getting all attention she wanted! The owner as she said on the Radio is PRO breastfeeding , just no ON THE STEPS OF THE POOL! I don’t understand what the problem is?!?!?!?
Well Jake, all we can ask is that swimmers do their part to keep their body fluids out of the pool as best they can. Really, is that too much to ask? You know- take a shower, use the washroom to pee, blow your nose before you dive in, breastfeed on the deck. Do your part to keep your fluids to yourself. What an unreasonable request, eh? Geesh. What kind of [person] would purposely blow boogers in the water or subject others to her boob-juice ON PURPOSE?! Hey, you want to wallow in someone else’s fluids- go right ahead. Rest assured that the other 99.9% of the population would really prefer not to, if it can be avoided through simple courtesy.
Hi Jake,
As always I appreciate your input. I too am disappointed to see such negativity and trolling, but I do strive to keep the comments open for discussion on both sides. Sometimes I have to go back and edit (with [brackets]) or delete comments if they get too out of line, because the commenter has already been approved. So it you see a comment come through, it may not stay that way.
If however you (or anyone else) grow tired of receiving the follow up comments on a post to which you have “subscribed” to the comments, go to the bottom of the comments section on the post, click on the link below the comments where it says “Manage your subscriptions” and you can unsubscribe at any time.
Angela (blog-owner), can I assume that a comment I made, in response to what I felt was name-calling, was not posted as it contained the original info? or was there something offensive in what I put? just wish to clarify – Thanks
It wasn’t name-calling. However, I will rephrase: Cirina is very obviously doing this (harassing Ellie) in hopes of collecting a cash reward.
Jean: while this tribunal will cost Ellie (and the taxpayers of Ontario) lots of money, it will not cost Cirina a cent. Cirina does not have to hire a lawyer. Ellie does (out of her own pocket). The taxpayers are forced to cover Cirina’s expenses. Yes, here we are facing an economic crisis, and Cirina wants the taxpayers to fund this silliness! That speaks volumes with regards to character, doesn’t it? And should Cirina win a large cash reward, as is her goal, that will come out of Ellie’s pocket as well. NOW do you understand why Cirina refused Ellie’s offer to feed on the deck? She’s holding out for a payout. She wants money, and money only. That’s the motive here, sadly.
Children in this country living in poverty, and taxpayers have to shell out so Cirina can have a payday. For shame.
Again – PROVIDE PROOF – proof where Cinira has asked for any money – and IF she is awarded any compensation – how do YOU know what she will do with it???
And no Ellie does not have to hire a lawyer – that is also her choice.
So prove your claims – or keep it zipped until you’ve seen what actually happens. You are only making yourself look bad throwing out accusations based on your own opinions and unsubstantiated rumours – unless you know Cinira better than many here – if so please – do tell how long, how well and from where you know her. When you provide this info perhaps more people will be interested in what you are spouting.
Until then I stand by what I said that was not posted – you did call her a name – and to me that is not acceptable – especially without concrete evidence.
Jean- That’s why you to the Human Rights people. To ask for a cash reward. She likely heard about that other woman who won $6K, and that’s why she refused to accept the pool owner’s compromise. Why else would someone refuse a perfectly fair and reasonable proposal? Possibly for publicity/attention, more likely for some quick cash. You have a better theory?
Notably, she has made no mention of donating anything to anyone. If she really wanted to win sympathy, trust me, she would have. The fact that she hasn’t promised to donate a penny to charity speaks volumes. The proof is in the pudding.
No, I don’t know Cirina. I don’t know anyone who would even dream of doing something so rude. Exposing others to her bodily fluids and then harassing the person who tries to protect her investment! The nerve!
Jean – Yes I removed your comment because it contained the original objectionable material and because the comment thread wouldn’t make sense otherwise.
Meg – Asking a mother to breastfeed in another location is not a compromise, it’s discrimination. That’s the whole point.
And you speak so much of money that I can no longer resist pointing out that the owner had several free options — (1) not to ask a breastfeeding mother to move in the first place, (2) to educate herself about the law, and (3) apologize. In many cases in which a business/its employees interfered with a breastfeeding mother and baby, the owner has admitted responsibility, apologized, agreed to develop a breastfeeding-friendly policy and educate all staff about it, and welcomed breastfeeding mothers to frequent the business. A good business strategy in my book, not that it needs to be a good strategy to comply with the law!