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	<title>Comments on: Breastfeeding Rights Rally in Ontario on November 7, 2008</title>
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	<link>http://www.blisstree.com/breastfeeding123/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/</link>
	<description>Breastfeeding 1-2-3: A Blog for Breastfeeding Tips and Support</description>
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		<title>By: jean</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/breastfeeding123/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/comment-page-3/#comment-4517</link>
		<dc:creator>jean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.breastfeeding123.com/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/#comment-4517</guid>
		<description>Thank you Angela, for clarifying - on all points. 

I&#039;m tired of people (and specifically Meg) thinking that the only reason to go the OHRC is to seek monetary compensation - the OHRC does not just award monetary compensation - sometimes it&#039;s just an apology, sometimes a new &quot;policy&quot; will be put in place, it all depends on the nature of the complaint and what the complainant wants (if they &quot;win&quot;) and what is reasonable given the specifics of each case.  I would assume that monetary compensation, beyond reasonable costs, would only be awarded if there was intent to harm, or the actions after the fact were aggregious enough to warrant it.  But I don&#039;t assume that if someone files a complaint they are after money - some people - many people - in this world want to make it better in the future.

Maybe Cinira has not asked for any extra - and that&#039;s why she hasn&#039;t said she&#039;ll give it to charity - she can&#039;t give what she doesn&#039;t have, maybe her lawyer (if she even has one) has told her to shut up - maybe she&#039;s beyond reading the crap that some people are spouting on the net and/or doesn&#039;t feel the need to justify herself to strangers.  I don&#039;t know why Cinira is silent but if I was up against people with such narrow/I&#039;m right because I said so views I hope I wouldn&#039;t bother sinking to their level either.

And maybe, just maybe, the fact that, despite the negative comments, Cinira is still going forward says something about her and her group... maybe she and her supporters know this is something worth fighting for.  I&#039;m glad there are those out there willing to put themselves through a nightmare to help ensure that others don&#039;t have to face such discrimination.  It&#039;s how the world gets better - the more people who stand up to wrongs the less people who will wrong others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Angela, for clarifying &#8211; on all points. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m tired of people (and specifically Meg) thinking that the only reason to go the OHRC is to seek monetary compensation &#8211; the OHRC does not just award monetary compensation &#8211; sometimes it&#8217;s just an apology, sometimes a new &#8220;policy&#8221; will be put in place, it all depends on the nature of the complaint and what the complainant wants (if they &#8220;win&#8221;) and what is reasonable given the specifics of each case.  I would assume that monetary compensation, beyond reasonable costs, would only be awarded if there was intent to harm, or the actions after the fact were aggregious enough to warrant it.  But I don&#8217;t assume that if someone files a complaint they are after money &#8211; some people &#8211; many people &#8211; in this world want to make it better in the future.</p>
<p>Maybe Cinira has not asked for any extra &#8211; and that&#8217;s why she hasn&#8217;t said she&#8217;ll give it to charity &#8211; she can&#8217;t give what she doesn&#8217;t have, maybe her lawyer (if she even has one) has told her to shut up &#8211; maybe she&#8217;s beyond reading the crap that some people are spouting on the net and/or doesn&#8217;t feel the need to justify herself to strangers.  I don&#8217;t know why Cinira is silent but if I was up against people with such narrow/I&#8217;m right because I said so views I hope I wouldn&#8217;t bother sinking to their level either.</p>
<p>And maybe, just maybe, the fact that, despite the negative comments, Cinira is still going forward says something about her and her group&#8230; maybe she and her supporters know this is something worth fighting for.  I&#8217;m glad there are those out there willing to put themselves through a nightmare to help ensure that others don&#8217;t have to face such discrimination.  It&#8217;s how the world gets better &#8211; the more people who stand up to wrongs the less people who will wrong others.</p>
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		<title>By: Angela White, J.D., breastfeeding counselor</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/breastfeeding123/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/comment-page-3/#comment-4039</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela White, J.D., breastfeeding counselor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.breastfeeding123.com/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/#comment-4039</guid>
		<description>Jean - Yes I removed your comment because it contained the original objectionable material and because the comment thread wouldn&#039;t make sense otherwise.

Meg - Asking a mother to breastfeed in another location is not a compromise, it&#039;s discrimination. That&#039;s the whole point. 

And you speak so much of money that I can no longer resist pointing out that the owner had several free options -- (1) not to ask a breastfeeding mother to move in the first place, (2) to educate herself about the law, and (3) apologize.  In many cases in which a business/its employees interfered with a breastfeeding mother and baby, the owner has admitted responsibility, apologized, agreed to develop a breastfeeding-friendly policy and educate all staff about it, and welcomed breastfeeding mothers to frequent the business. A good business strategy in my book, not that it needs to be a good strategy to comply with the law!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jean &#8211; Yes I removed your comment because it contained the original objectionable material and because the comment thread wouldn&#8217;t make sense otherwise.</p>
<p>Meg &#8211; Asking a mother to breastfeed in another location is not a compromise, it&#8217;s discrimination. That&#8217;s the whole point. </p>
<p>And you speak so much of money that I can no longer resist pointing out that the owner had several free options &#8212; (1) not to ask a breastfeeding mother to move in the first place, (2) to educate herself about the law, and (3) apologize.  In many cases in which a business/its employees interfered with a breastfeeding mother and baby, the owner has admitted responsibility, apologized, agreed to develop a breastfeeding-friendly policy and educate all staff about it, and welcomed breastfeeding mothers to frequent the business. A good business strategy in my book, not that it needs to be a good strategy to comply with the law!</p>
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		<title>By: Meg</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/breastfeeding123/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/comment-page-3/#comment-3418</link>
		<dc:creator>Meg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:16:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.breastfeeding123.com/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/#comment-3418</guid>
		<description>Jean- That&#039;s why you to the Human Rights people. To ask for a cash reward. She likely heard about that other woman who won $6K, and that&#039;s why she refused to accept the pool owner&#039;s compromise. Why else would someone refuse a perfectly fair and reasonable proposal? Possibly for publicity/attention, more likely for some quick cash. You have a better theory?

Notably, she has made no mention of donating anything to anyone. If she really wanted to win sympathy, trust me, she would have. The fact that she hasn&#039;t promised to donate a penny to charity speaks volumes. The proof is in the pudding. 

No, I don&#039;t know Cirina. I don&#039;t know anyone who would even dream of doing something so rude. Exposing others to her bodily fluids and then harassing the person who tries to protect her investment! The nerve!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jean- That&#8217;s why you to the Human Rights people. To ask for a cash reward. She likely heard about that other woman who won $6K, and that&#8217;s why she refused to accept the pool owner&#8217;s compromise. Why else would someone refuse a perfectly fair and reasonable proposal? Possibly for publicity/attention, more likely for some quick cash. You have a better theory?</p>
<p>Notably, she has made no mention of donating anything to anyone. If she really wanted to win sympathy, trust me, she would have. The fact that she hasn&#8217;t promised to donate a penny to charity speaks volumes. The proof is in the pudding. </p>
<p>No, I don&#8217;t know Cirina. I don&#8217;t know anyone who would even dream of doing something so rude. Exposing others to her bodily fluids and then harassing the person who tries to protect her investment! The nerve!</p>
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		<title>By: jean</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/breastfeeding123/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/comment-page-3/#comment-4032</link>
		<dc:creator>jean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.breastfeeding123.com/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/#comment-4032</guid>
		<description>Again - PROVIDE PROOF - proof where Cinira has asked for any money - and IF she is awarded any compensation - how do YOU know what she will do with it???  

And no Ellie does not have to hire a lawyer - that is also her choice.  

So prove your claims - or keep it zipped until you&#039;ve seen what actually happens.  You are only making yourself look bad throwing out accusations based on your own opinions and unsubstantiated rumours - unless you know Cinira better than many here - if so please - do tell how long, how well and from where you know her.  When you provide this info perhaps more people will be interested in what you are spouting.

Until then I stand by what I said that was not posted - you did call her a name - and to me that is not acceptable - especially without concrete evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again &#8211; PROVIDE PROOF &#8211; proof where Cinira has asked for any money &#8211; and IF she is awarded any compensation &#8211; how do YOU know what she will do with it???  </p>
<p>And no Ellie does not have to hire a lawyer &#8211; that is also her choice.  </p>
<p>So prove your claims &#8211; or keep it zipped until you&#8217;ve seen what actually happens.  You are only making yourself look bad throwing out accusations based on your own opinions and unsubstantiated rumours &#8211; unless you know Cinira better than many here &#8211; if so please &#8211; do tell how long, how well and from where you know her.  When you provide this info perhaps more people will be interested in what you are spouting.</p>
<p>Until then I stand by what I said that was not posted &#8211; you did call her a name &#8211; and to me that is not acceptable &#8211; especially without concrete evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: Meg</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/breastfeeding123/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/comment-page-2/#comment-4028</link>
		<dc:creator>Meg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.breastfeeding123.com/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/#comment-4028</guid>
		<description>It wasn&#039;t name-calling. However, I will rephrase: Cirina is very obviously doing this (harassing Ellie) in hopes of collecting a cash reward.    
Jean: while this tribunal will cost Ellie (and the taxpayers of Ontario) lots of money, it will not cost Cirina a cent. Cirina does not have to hire a lawyer. Ellie does (out of her own pocket). The taxpayers are forced to cover Cirina&#039;s expenses. Yes, here we are facing an economic crisis, and Cirina wants the taxpayers to fund this silliness! That speaks volumes with regards to character, doesn&#039;t it? And should Cirina win a large cash reward, as is her goal, that will come out of Ellie&#039;s pocket as well. NOW do you understand why Cirina refused Ellie&#039;s offer to feed on the deck? She&#039;s holding out for a payout. She wants money, and money only. That&#039;s the motive here, sadly. 
Children in this country living in poverty, and taxpayers have to shell out so Cirina can have a payday. For shame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It wasn&#8217;t name-calling. However, I will rephrase: Cirina is very obviously doing this (harassing Ellie) in hopes of collecting a cash reward.<br />
Jean: while this tribunal will cost Ellie (and the taxpayers of Ontario) lots of money, it will not cost Cirina a cent. Cirina does not have to hire a lawyer. Ellie does (out of her own pocket). The taxpayers are forced to cover Cirina&#8217;s expenses. Yes, here we are facing an economic crisis, and Cirina wants the taxpayers to fund this silliness! That speaks volumes with regards to character, doesn&#8217;t it? And should Cirina win a large cash reward, as is her goal, that will come out of Ellie&#8217;s pocket as well. NOW do you understand why Cirina refused Ellie&#8217;s offer to feed on the deck? She&#8217;s holding out for a payout. She wants money, and money only. That&#8217;s the motive here, sadly.<br />
Children in this country living in poverty, and taxpayers have to shell out so Cirina can have a payday. For shame.</p>
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		<title>By: jean</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/breastfeeding123/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/comment-page-2/#comment-2476</link>
		<dc:creator>jean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 05:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.breastfeeding123.com/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/#comment-2476</guid>
		<description>Angela (blog-owner), can I assume that a comment I made, in response to what I felt was name-calling, was not posted as it contained the original info?  or was there something offensive in what I put?  just wish to clarify - Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Angela (blog-owner), can I assume that a comment I made, in response to what I felt was name-calling, was not posted as it contained the original info?  or was there something offensive in what I put?  just wish to clarify &#8211; Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Angela White, J.D., breastfeeding counselor</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/breastfeeding123/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/comment-page-2/#comment-3428</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela White, J.D., breastfeeding counselor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.breastfeeding123.com/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/#comment-3428</guid>
		<description>Hi Jake,

As always I appreciate your input. I too am disappointed to see such negativity and trolling, but I do strive to keep the comments open for discussion on both sides. Sometimes I have to go back and edit (with [brackets]) or delete comments if they get too out of line, because the commenter has already been approved. So it you see a comment come through, it may not stay that way.

If however you (or anyone else) grow tired of receiving the follow up comments on a post to which you have &quot;subscribed&quot; to the comments, go to the bottom of the comments section on the post, click on the link below the comments where it says &quot;Manage your subscriptions&quot; and you can unsubscribe at any time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jake,</p>
<p>As always I appreciate your input. I too am disappointed to see such negativity and trolling, but I do strive to keep the comments open for discussion on both sides. Sometimes I have to go back and edit (with [brackets]) or delete comments if they get too out of line, because the commenter has already been approved. So it you see a comment come through, it may not stay that way.</p>
<p>If however you (or anyone else) grow tired of receiving the follow up comments on a post to which you have &#8220;subscribed&#8221; to the comments, go to the bottom of the comments section on the post, click on the link below the comments where it says &#8220;Manage your subscriptions&#8221; and you can unsubscribe at any time.</p>
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		<title>By: Meg</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/breastfeeding123/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/comment-page-2/#comment-3133</link>
		<dc:creator>Meg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.breastfeeding123.com/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/#comment-3133</guid>
		<description>Well Jake, all we can ask is that swimmers do their part to keep their body fluids out of the pool as best they can. Really, is that too much to ask? You know- take a shower, use the washroom to pee, blow your nose before you dive in, breastfeed on the deck. Do your part to keep your fluids to yourself. What an unreasonable request, eh? Geesh. What kind of [person] would purposely blow boogers in the water or subject others to her boob-juice ON PURPOSE?! Hey, you want to wallow in someone else&#039;s fluids- go right ahead. Rest assured that the other 99.9% of the population would really prefer not to, if it can be avoided through simple courtesy. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Jake, all we can ask is that swimmers do their part to keep their body fluids out of the pool as best they can. Really, is that too much to ask? You know- take a shower, use the washroom to pee, blow your nose before you dive in, breastfeed on the deck. Do your part to keep your fluids to yourself. What an unreasonable request, eh? Geesh. What kind of [person] would purposely blow boogers in the water or subject others to her boob-juice ON PURPOSE?! Hey, you want to wallow in someone else&#8217;s fluids- go right ahead. Rest assured that the other 99.9% of the population would really prefer not to, if it can be avoided through simple courtesy.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/breastfeeding123/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/comment-page-2/#comment-3096</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:43:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.breastfeeding123.com/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/#comment-3096</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t believe this is still going on! Give it up already people! The kid was 20 month old! This lady is getting all attention she wanted! The owner as she said on the Radio is PRO breastfeeding , just no ON THE STEPS OF THE POOL! I don&#039;t understand what the problem is?!?!?!?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t believe this is still going on! Give it up already people! The kid was 20 month old! This lady is getting all attention she wanted! The owner as she said on the Radio is PRO breastfeeding , just no ON THE STEPS OF THE POOL! I don&#8217;t understand what the problem is?!?!?!?</p>
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		<title>By: Jake Marcus</title>
		<link>http://www.blisstree.com/breastfeeding123/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/comment-page-2/#comment-3089</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake Marcus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.breastfeeding123.com/breastfeeding-rights-rally-in-ontario-on-november-7-2008/#comment-3089</guid>
		<description>Really Angela, I don&#039;t know how you stand it. :(

What part of getting into the pool was without consent?  Did I miss the part where everyone else was being water boarded? Which swimmers were tested for all communicable diseases, scrubbed clean of all harmful bacteria (if that were even possible), and had every orifice (including skin pores) sealed tight?

Humans are leaky oozing beings - sometimes that is good, sometimes that is bad, and sometimes it is just not worth all this discussion.  We come in contact with the bodily fluids of strangers every time we leave our homes.  For those of you who find this significantly interferes with your quality of life, I understand there are some medications available to help you handle the anxiety.

Courtesy, frankly, is keeping your opinions about how other people should feed their children to yourself.  If there really was some health risk posed by dropslets of breastmilk in the pool, I am sure the owner will be able to present evidence of that before the Ontario Commission.  If the health code which governs her left a reasonable question in her mind as to how she should handle the situation, I am sure the proceedings will clarify that and the pool owner will be spared.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really Angela, I don&#8217;t know how you stand it. <img src='http://www.blisstree.com/breastfeeding123/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>What part of getting into the pool was without consent?  Did I miss the part where everyone else was being water boarded? Which swimmers were tested for all communicable diseases, scrubbed clean of all harmful bacteria (if that were even possible), and had every orifice (including skin pores) sealed tight?</p>
<p>Humans are leaky oozing beings &#8211; sometimes that is good, sometimes that is bad, and sometimes it is just not worth all this discussion.  We come in contact with the bodily fluids of strangers every time we leave our homes.  For those of you who find this significantly interferes with your quality of life, I understand there are some medications available to help you handle the anxiety.</p>
<p>Courtesy, frankly, is keeping your opinions about how other people should feed their children to yourself.  If there really was some health risk posed by dropslets of breastmilk in the pool, I am sure the owner will be able to present evidence of that before the Ontario Commission.  If the health code which governs her left a reasonable question in her mind as to how she should handle the situation, I am sure the proceedings will clarify that and the pool owner will be spared.</p>
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