Following up on the “crosstalk” topic… we have an email written from a oldtime member of AA;

Date: Thurs, Aug 21 2008 4:22 pm
From: olemole

I’ve been around and sober for close to 37 years and so called crosstalk in one meeting is standard format in another all depends on the size and make up of the meeting. Cross talk is as old as AA.

On Aug 18, 8:52 am, Sottovoice wrote:

“I have to profess that I am not one who understands the detailed history of “cross talk” or what it really has to do with AA but I do know it didn’t exist as an idea until fairly recently (last 10 years or so). Today’s definition is one where someone shares on someone else’s share. It is tantamount to someone leading off their share with “I don’t want any feedback but…” That is appropriate if you feel that AA meetings are places to dump your stuff (There is a four letter word more descriptive but this is a family show) and split. If that is what you feel AA meetings to be it might be better to share that stuff with a sponsor instead.

But if I was to share in a meeting that I enjoyed drowning puppies in my spare time and saw no problem with that I would hope someone would let me know that sobriety isn’t measured by the drinks I didn’t take but by the spiritual life I need to live.

I’m sure there’ll be a couple of angry comments but if I want to go somewhere and dump there are better places to do that than an AA meeting. If I’m afraid that my comments won’t be well received I might save those comments for my sponsor – clearing my conscience at the expense of others and insisting that no one should say anything about it is a little arrogant and selfish. And, God forbid, it becomes fodder for the rumor mill – all the more reason it should be shared with a sponsor who may be able to give some valuable experience or direct you to someone who does.

Jim
The Into Action Group of Manhattan
DOS 8/8/80″

I’ll say it again – thanks God for those who’ve developed wisdom in its simplest terms.

Post from: Blisstree

A Member’s Eye View Of “Crosstalk”

Thanks again Alex…

“No look at anonymity as practiced by AA can be truly complete without including the question: is it possible for an AA member to be too anonymous? Too anonymous for the good of the individual and the Fellowship? The answer is ‘yes.’ And there are more than a few examples of this: members who feel they must not tell their families or their friends or coworkers or doctors or ministers or lawyers that they are members of AA.

There have even been instances when members have sent requests for information to the General Service Office in New York and not included a last name or have sent checks to GSO – unsigned.

There is indeed such a thing as an AA member being too anonymous: where it can mean failure to extend the helping hand when the need arises; where it can mean failure to correct misconceptions about AA both inside and outside the Fellowship; and where it can stifle – even stop – the flow of AA knowledge and sobriety from one person to another.

This is anonymity at the personal level and can indeed be carried too far – in Bill’s words – to ‘the point of real absurdity.’“

It might be a thought to note that “they” made provision for misconceptions early – both inside and outside of the Fellowship. Yes, they exist.

Post from: Blisstree

To The Point Of Real Absurdity

Consider one simple thought – they don’t see time, time sober. They begin to hear that but did you understand it in the beginning? Most of these folks sitting in their first few meetings (at least in our area) don’t even understand that we practice abstaining from drinking alcohol much less recognize what we’re about. What they see is a room full of unknown faces with unknown quantity/quality. That’s all.

So we tell them they’re the most important person in the room? Important relative to what? In what manner are they important? How do they understand their importance? Heck, they probably came in believing they were better than us anyway. After all, aren’t we the dregs of the earth and now they’re sitting with us? How does it feel to have the lowest of low tell you your the most important of the lowest of low?

They hear “Steps,” “Sponsor,” “One Day at a Time,” “Don’t Drink and Go To Meetings,” etc. Steps? At your first meeting did you know what the Steps were? Did you care? At your first meeting did you know what a sponsor was? Did you care? At your first meeting did “One Day at a Time” make any sense to you? Did you care? At your first few meetings, when you heard “Don’t drink and go to meetings,” did you wonder how the hell you were not going to drink?

Were you really in a frame of mind that being told you were the most important person in the room made a difference to you? Or were you more PO’d that you might be about to lose the one thing that was always there for you when you wanted your pain to go away?

Did you understand your desperation sitting in your first meeting? Did you have any clue that you had a disease that is permanent, progressive and fatal not to mention the most patient bast*** on the planet? Or were you shaking from withdrawals? Were you wondering how the hell am I going to quit drinking? What are these people talking about? How much do you really remember from that first meeting? That you were told you were the most important person in the room?

And then, months later we tell you that unless you develop humility you won’t stay sober. Geeesh.

Bill W. had some clue about this before the Traditions were even written. In January of 1946 he said;

“In a spiritual sense, anonymity amounts to the renunciation of personal prestige as an instrument of national policy.”

Yes, I realize he brought “national policy” into it and I don’t understand that. I think it is more important that he knew that what was truly important in a society based on anonymity was the renunciation of personal prestige. Perhaps that is why, when they eventually got around to the Traditions they spoke of avoiding allowing prestige to divert us from our primary purpose…

“Nearly everyone of us had wished to do great good, perform great deeds, and embody great ideals. We are all perfectionists who, failing perfection, have gone to the other extreme and settled for the bottle and the blackout.”

Here’s my “NO” vote for prestige and applause. It wasn’t right for Bill Wilson, isn’t right for me and ought not be right for newcomers.

Post from: Blisstree

What Are We Telling The Newcomer?

Subsequent to many situations involving the breaking of anonymity by AA members, Bill says (The Language of the Heart, pg. 216);

We now fully realize that 100 percent personal anonymity before the public is just as vital to the life of AA as 100 percent sobriety is to the life of each and every member. This is not the counsel of fear; it is the prudent voice of long experience. I am sure we are going to listen; that we shall make every needed sacrifice. Indeed, we have been listening. Today only a handful of anonymity breakers remain.

I say all this with what earnestness I can; I say this because I know what the temptation of fame and money really is. I can say this because I was once a breaker of anonymity myself. I thank God that years ago the voice of experience and the urging of wise friends took me out of that perilous path into which I might have led our entire Society. Thus I learned that the temporary or seeming good can often be the deadly enemy of the permanent best. When it comes to survival for AA, nothing short of our very best will be good enough.”

How many areas of our lives can this lesson be applied to?

Post from: Blisstree

Temporary Good Can Often Be A Deadly Enemy

Facts about anonymity in A.A.

It is not the media’s responsibility to maintain our Traditions; it is our own individual responsibility.

• A.A. members generally think it unwise to break the anonymity of a member even after his or her death, but in each situation, the final decision must rest with the family.
• A.A. members may disclose their identity and speak as recovered alcoholics, giving radio, TV and Internet interviews, without violating the Traditions — so long as their A.A. membership is not revealed.
• A.A. members may speak as A.A. members only if their names or faces are not revealed. They speak not for A.A. but as individual members.
  

Experience suggests that A.A. members:

• Respect the right of other members to maintain their own anonymity at whatever levels they wish.
• When speaking as A.A. members at non-A.A. meetings, usually use first names only.
• Maintain personal anonymity in articles and autobiographies.
• Avoid the use of titles such as “A.A. counselor” when employed as professionals in the field of alcoholism (the title “alcoholism counselor” is preferred).
• Use last names within the Fellowship, especially for election of group officers and other service jobs.

Please – don’t let anyone chase you out of a meeting – your life is at stake!

Post from: Blisstree

Anonymity Facts

Some questions and answers about anonymity

Personal anonymity

Q. After I tell my loved ones about my A.A. membership, should I ask them not to disclose this information to anyone else?
A. This is entirely a personal matter, but it is usually best for all concerned to let the A.A. member decide who shall be told and when.

Q. If relatives, friends, and business associates comment on my improved appearance and functioning after I become sober, should I tell them I’m in A.A.?
A. Members of the immediate family and close friends are usually pleased to learn about an alcoholic’s membership in A.A. As for business associates, it might be best simply to say that you’ve stopped drinking and postpone decision about disclosing your membership until after you have been in the Fellowship for several months.

Anonymity at the media level

Q. What if I appear as an A.A. member on TV, in a film, or allow my picture to be used in a newspaper or magazine, but do not give my full name? Is this considered an anonymity break?
A. Yes, if full-face photographs and other easily identifiable photos of A.A. members (who are described as A.A. members) are published or broadcast, even though their full names are not given, these are considered anonymity breaks.

Q. I maintain an Internet Web site and also belong to an online meeting. At what level should I protect my anonymity on the internet?
A. Publicly accessible aspects of the Internet such as Web sites featuring text, graphics, audio and video ought to be considered another form of “public media.” Thus, they need to be treated in the same manner as press, radio, TV and films. This means that full names and faces should not be used. However, the level of anonymity in e-mail, online meetings and chat rooms would be a personal decision.

Please visit the link above and read the rest

An alcoholic isn’t finished without more -> Facts about anonymity in A.A.

Post from: Blisstree

If You’re Still Curious About Anonymity

From Alcoholics Anonymous;

Understanding Anonymity

“Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.”

What is the purpose of anonymity in Alcoholics Anonymous? Why is it often referred to as the greatest single protection the Fellowship has to assure its continued existence and growth?

If we look at the history of A.A., from its beginning in 1935 until now, it is clear that anonymity serves two different yet equally vital functions:

• At the personal level, anonymity provides protection for all members from identification as alcoholics, a safeguard often of special importance to newcomers.
• At the level of press, radio, TV, films and new media technologies such as the Internet, anonymity stresses the equality in the Fellowship of all members by putting the brake on those who might otherwise exploit their A.A. affiliation to achieve recognition, power, or personal gain.

Please visit the link above and read the rest

An alcoholic isn’t finished without more -> Some questions and answers about anonymity, Facts about anonymity in A.A.

Post from: Blisstree

Understanding Anonymity

“Whom you see here, what you hear here, when you leave here, let it stay here.”

It may also have been the result of our sister fellowship according to Glenn C. and others. Glenn points us to “The Tools of Recovery” at Hindsfoot and says: “Some of the local folks say that this statement was first read by one of the people who put together the seven ‘tools of recovery’ when he was attending an Al-Anon meeting.”

Steven L. comments that he’d seen the statement on a Manhattan Project documentary and then Glenn offers that perhaps our Al-Anon brothers and sisters went “nuclear” and adapted the slogan for their use.

For anyone who might not know, Glenn also includes, “The Manhattan Project (1941-1946) was the top secret World War II project in which the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom worked together to produce the first atomic bomb. Research took place at over thirty sites in the United States, Canada, and United Kingdom.”

Now you get it, right?

Post from: Blisstree

Al-Anon Members Went Nuclear!

She’d said quite a bit prior to this passage and I’d seriously suggest you click through above to read it. But this part is very interesting;

“Father Dowling, a Jesuit Priest, had first met our group in the early days in Chicago, and he came to Akron to see us. And then he went on to New York to see the others. And he said to one of our men, ‘This is one of the most beautiful things that has come into the world. But I want to warn you that the devil will try to destroy it.’ Of course, it’s true, and one of the first things that the devil could have used was having money, and having sanitariums as the men were planning. Much to Bob’s and Bill’s and Ann’s surprise, I said, ‘No, we’ll never take any money.’

Another way where I saw that the devil could try to destroy us was having prominent names. The other night I heard on TV special about alcoholics, a man explaining why they are anonymous. And he showed that he didn’t really know why. He just said that it wouldn’t do to let people know that you were an alcoholic. That’s not the reason. In fact, the surest way to stay sober is to let people know that you are an alcoholic because then you have lost something of yourself.

I would say that the second way that I saw that the devil would be trying to destroy us was to have any names. Those who think that they are prominent or that they have become leaders, all fail people because no one is on top spiritually all the time. So I said, ‘We’ll never have any names.’

I feel that the whole wonderful experience of Alcoholics Anonymous came in answer to a growing great need in the world, and this was met by the combination of Bill, who was a catalyst and promoter, and Bob, with his great humility (if you spoke to him about his contribution, he’d say, ‘Oh, I just work here.’) and Ann, who supplied a homeyness for our men in the beginning.

And I tried to give to the people something of my experience and faith. What I was most concerned with is that we always go back to faith. This brings me to the third thing that would be destructive to the early days, Bob and Bill said to me. ‘Henrietta, I don’t think we should talk too much about religion or God.’ I said to them, ‘Well, we’re not out to please the alcoholics. They have been pleasing themselves all these years. We are out to please God. And if you don’t talk about what God does, and your faith, and your guidance, then you might as well be the Rotary Club or something like that. Because God is your only source of power.’ And finally they agreed. And they weren’t afraid any more. It is my great hope that they will never be afraid to acknowledge God and what he has done for them.”

I would so much like to see this “old-time” honesty and reality return. This is the truth!

Post from: Blisstree

Never Be Afraid To Acknowledge God

For those who haven’t had an opportunity to listen to Dr. Paul, “Doctor, Addict and Alcoholic,” or, from the 4th ed., “Acceptance Was The Answer,” this is a link to one of his speaking engagements from which you can download one of his tapes.

He has a wonderful sense of humor yet also carries the message in an old-timers kind of way!

Focus. Dr. Paul talks quite a bit about focus on pgs. 418-419;

“Prior to our marriage, I was able to see things in her that others couldn’t necessarily see – things like beauty, charm, gaiety, a gift for being easy to talk to, a sense of humor, and many other fine qualities. It was as if I had, rather than a Midas touch which turned everything to gold, a magnifying mind that magnified whatever it focused on.”

“And the more I focused on her defects, the more they grew and multiplied.”

“A.A. has given me a new pair of glasses. I can again focus on my wife’s good qualities and watch them grow and grow and grow.”

“I can do the same with an A.A. meeting. The more I focus my mind on its defects – late start, long drunkalogs, cigarette smoke – the worse the meeting becomes.”

“When I focus my mind on what’s good about it, rather than what’s wrong with it, the meeting keeps getting better and better.”

“When I focus on what’s good today, I have a good day, and when I focus on what’s bad, I have a bad day.”

“If I focus on a problem, the problem increases; if I focus on the answer, the answer increases.”

I know some folks who had their focus so pinpointed they couldn’t see the forest for the trees! You’ll get a laugh out of this…

Post from: Blisstree

He Became A Good Doctor